How to tame brightness?

[NH-MAN]

In addition to the above I would recommend cleaning up your AC power. This, along with better cables, made a big difference in my system in taming the high end.

How inexpensively but effective can this be achieved? I have been wondering about this (power supply) as I have vastly different amps and three sets of vastly different speakers and crappy music is almost unenjoyable during the day but sounds much better 11-11:30 and later at night for some reason. I stream most of my music on my I phone BTW. I live in the country and my home is dead quiet at all times and I am not near anything. I wonder why bright music sounds better late at night (not as harsh). At night I normally have the tone controls bypassed but during the day I have to use them..

 

[rnorton]

It's the diamond tweeter.

Yep. Tape a square of TP over each tweeter. Worked great on my B&W DM330's, too.

 

[GRACE RUBY]

. Its these kind of issues that me really question reviewers choices in magazines. I wish I had a better answer, but its the speakers.

Sorry to disagree, as everyone wants their point to be valid, but it not just the speakers, its the whole way we have looked at music for decades, which mostly starts in the amp, and pre amp, we have all become dogs crying as our ears bleed from police sirens, when you look at all that is complained about TREBLE, nothing is done, nothing changes and few address the issue cause the "Audiophiles" love the skirmish, that often leaves them the only folks with a voice, facts are most of this junk should have never left the design table, its all way too dam bright to create music at the octave instruments made the original sound with, all the manufactures are making over bright crap to reach more detail till the whole system sounds like a cat being beat in a bag.

Holy god think for a minute, when did you go to a concert last and "It was too brite"

The manufactures make billions off this "Brite Massacre" of music, people buy endless versions of RCA, Speaker cable, speakers, amps--to run flee escape from brite.

and that makes them money.

I can't stand most (not all) any rig i hear, $3000, $8000 or $18,000, cause the chase for "DETAIL" has wrecked the system.

And then there's the moral issue that most narcissists could care less about, the common man has not a chance in the world to hear music any more, cause it "Died on the CD" great example is "Rock and Roll Animal" by Lou Reed
it was not just the guitar playing of that album that made it so great---but the tone of the music.
which has never been recreated on a CD, let alone then played on a "Full Frequency" shrieking junk yard of "Audiophile Approved Equipment" .

Like Wow man, I got such a hot rig, cool me, heck with you.

Well we have to live with all the folks trying to find beauty in a cold dark useless for music world, who, are trying to heal their sanity back from the dead, with this shrieking junk, most of whom have not a clue what beauty even is any more
and make us have to look at that failure every day we walk the street for a breath of fresh air.

40 years ago, you could turn on a radio, just a dam radio, and get more love, beauty, fidelity, hope and healing
then most of the world will ever know now a days, with a single speaker with out a tweeter.

For me, maybe just me, I think the audio equipment industry is as huge a farce as American politics, and has choked beauty to death, and if that were not exactly true
then why are we all fighting to revive her in our living rooms over something as stupid as treble.

I strongly recommend folks look at "Crossover less Single Speakers" the fidelity of these in their many many forms is breath taking, there is no tweeters, no capacitors, Just Harmony, beauty and sound stage that takes on almost "Surreal" depths of aural sight"

And their ability to shut down all this treble detail deception, this that and the other thing junk yard of useless pursuits and replace it with pure beauty is per found.

And at a price point any poor person can afford.

Mean while the manufactures will charge thousands for "Tone Corrected" equipment.

The same thing our parents had in a table top radio 50 years ago, for $18.00

 

[NH-MAN]

Sorry to disagree, as everyone wants their point to be valid, but it not just the speakers, its the whole way we have looked at music for decades, which mostly starts in the amp, and pre amp, we have all become dogs crying as our ears bleed from police sirens, when you look at all that is complained about TREBLE, nothing is done, nothing changes and few address the issue cause the "Audiophiles" love the skirmish, that often leaves them the only folks with a voice, facts are most of this junk should have never left the design table, its all way too dam bright to create music at the octave instruments made the original sound with, all the manufactures are making over bright crap to reach more detail till the whole system sounds like a cat being beat in a bag.

Holy god think for a minute, when did you go to a concert last and "It was too brite"

The manufactures make billions off this "Brite Massacre" of music, people buy endless versions of RCA, Speaker cable, speakers, amps--to run flee escape from brite.

and that makes them money.

I can't stand most (not all) any rig i hear, $3000, $8000 or $18,000, cause the chase for "DETAIL" has wrecked the system.

And then there's the moral issue that most narcissists could care less about, the common man has not a chance in the world to hear music any more, cause it "Died on the CD" great example is "Rock and Roll Animal" by Lou Reed
Love it, I agree totally. Funny you mentioned table top radios, 30 years ago my parents had a Sony single speaker radio that sounded divine.. I say turn your treble or mid down on the crap and enjoy, Its really not rocket science.
it was not just the guitar playing of that album that made it so great---but the tone of the music.
which has never been recreated on a CD, let alone then played on a "Full Frequency" shrieking junk yard of "Audiophile Approved Equipment" .

Like Wow man, I got such a hot rig, cool me, heck with you.

Well we have to live with all the folks trying to find beauty in a cold dark useless for music world, who, are trying to heal their sanity back from the dead, with this shrieking junk, most of whom have not a clue what beauty even is any more
and make us have to look at that failure every day we walk the street for a breath of fresh air.

40 years ago, you could turn on a radio, just a dam radio, and get more love, beauty, fidelity, hope and healing
then most of the world will ever know now a days, with a single speaker with out a tweeter.

For me, maybe just me, I think the audio equipment industry is as huge a farce as American politics, and has choked beauty to death, and if that were not exactly true
then why are we all fighting to revive her in our living rooms over something as stupid as treble.

I strongly recommend folks look at "Crossover less Single Speakers" the fidelity of these in their many many forms is breath taking, there is no tweeters, no capacitors, Just Harmony, beauty and sound stage that takes on almost "Surreal" depths of aural sight"

And their ability to shut down all this treble detail deception, this that and the other thing junk yard of useless pursuits and replace it with pure beauty is per found.

And at a price point any poor person can afford.

Mean while the manufactures will charge thousands for "Tone Corrected" equipment.

The same thing our parents had in a table top radio 50 years ago, for $18.00

I agree totally, funny you mentioned table tops as my patents had a single speaker sony 35 years ago that sounded lovely, almost hard to not stop and take a listen when walking by

 

[natger]

Stereophile measurements also show tweeter is too loud. Some people believe all new B&W's are tuned that way because Americans like that sound. Some B&W have empty resistor positions in tweeter filter, so best ask B&W, they know what they sell/produce.

 

[Wildcat]

Stereophile measurements also show tweeter is too loud. Some people believe all new B&W's are tuned that way because Americans like that sound. Some B&W have empty resistor positions in tweeter filter, so best ask B&W, they know what they sell/produce.

That alone is what turns me off about B&W speakers. I realize others rave about them, but they have never done anything for me, and I have always heard them as too bright. Even a modified pair of 801s a local audiophile had in his basement system was still on the bright side--they imaged wonderfully and had a deep bass response, but those highs...the overtones on an upright bass were just way out of whack (and it was a recording I was familiar with). Not my cup of tea. In fact, they are not alone. I remember hearing some newer Polk towers several years that were also ear-burners. (These were not, however, the LSi series, which have a more natural treble to them.) I agree that the tendency in mainstream audio is to be overly-bright. Never used to be like that. Maybe they need to do this for the Best Buy masses?

Holy god think for a minute, when did you go to a concert last and "It was too brite"

Many. David Sanborn, Hill Auditorium (Ann Arbor, MI). Left there with a headache. Anything at Chene Park in Detroit is an ear-bleeder, plus they had that eight second reverb going. (The only good place at Chene Park is onstage, behind the band or off in the wings.) Too many others to mention...

 

[Tarquineous]

The easiest answer is change speakers. If thats an issue I would look for a C-40, 48, or 50. or You could add room EQ. But that edge is always going to be there. Thats what happens when you buy speakers or any component that resonates in the highs. Its these kind of issues that me really question reviewers choices in magazines. I wish I had a better answer, but its the speakers.

Maybe not the "easiest", but get some other speakers to try before you part with yours. If the other speakers are also bright in the same way, there is most likely something else in the system causing the brightness. The amplifier-speaker match is a common culprit. But if the different speakers of similar quality solve the problem, you're half way there. The other half is buying the new speakers.

 

[Tarquineous]

That alone is what turns me off about B&W speakers. I realize others rave about them, but they have never done anything for me, and I have always heard them as too bright. Even a modified pair of 801s a local audiophile had in his basement system was still on the bright side--they imaged wonderfully and had a deep bass response, but those highs...the overtones on an upright bass were just way out of whack (and it was a recording I was familiar with). Not my cup of tea. In fact, they are not alone. I remember hearing some newer Polk towers several years that were also ear-burners. (These were not, however, the LSi series, which have a more natural treble to them.) I agree that the tendency in mainstream audio is to be overly-bright. Never used to be like that. Maybe they need to do this for the Best Buy masses?


Many. David Sanborn, Hill Auditorium (Ann Arbor, MI). Left there with a headache. Anything at Chene Park in Detroit is an ear-bleeder, plus they had that eight second reverb going. (The only good place at Chene Park is onstage, behind the band or off in the wings.) Too many others to mention...

This brings to mind the opposite. One of the most enjoyable speakers I've listened to is the medium to large sized McIntosh. Lots of tweeters but not bright and annoying. Retail price is rather high like most of their products, but first class quality.

 

[Wildcat]

This gets me into room treatments and synergy of equipment. Both are important and are overlooked.

So true! Aside from a speaker upgrade, room treatments are going to be a "thing" with me this coming winter. Except in my case it is not so much the highs, but the bass. The only good listening position in the room is the one that has weak bass--too many nulls. And that has been with every speaker I've used in the room. It's more challenging when a room is used for everyday living, so I can't have speakers a third of the way out into the room either.

This brings to mind the opposite. One of the most enjoyable speakers I've listened to is the medium to large sized McIntosh. Lots of tweeters but not bright and annoying.

I heard quite a few good speakers at the last audio show I attended. So, at least we know good speakers are out there. Conditions are not ideal at shows, but at least you can get a rough idea of the sound and tonal balance, enough to follow up at a dealer for a proper audition. However, I heard many more which I didn't like which were overly bright, and like @botrytis is saying, synergy plays a big part in it also. So it's important to see what equipment is driving them. I encountered that with one speaker brand I like--one room drove them with huge McIntosh amps and source components and they sounded shrill and harsh, very metallic sounding...horrible. Same brand, same speaker model even, in another room driven by Constellation electronics and a Continuum Labs turntable rig was fantastic.

I get the feeling that it's not so much the audiophile speakers, but many of today's mass market speaker brands that just sound bright and nasty. There are exceptions (like the sets that Andrew Jones designed for Pioneer) but otherwise, it makes me wonder if brightness is more for the home user, or if that brightness is used to sell the speakers on the floor of the local Best Buy. Similar how they used to jack up the color and brightness of TVs to make them more attractive to the buyer. As a salesman once told me a long time ago, some speakers are just "boom boom, tweet tweet."

The B&W is just a "thing" with me. I have never liked their "family" sound, even back in the 80s. I can say that about a couple other brands. But, to each their own--if someone likes them, I'm not in a spot to deny them that pleasure.

 

[mkane]

listen off axis

 

[Wildcat]

As I said in another thread, many manufacturers are setting up at shows to please the reviewers, not the regular show goers. The reviewers seem to like the ultra analytical sound, wo they can hear the differences that cables make. I don't listen that way and neither do 98% of the people I met at shows.

Exactly. And despite the fact that attendees far outnumber reviewers at consumer shows like AXPONA. I don't expect to hear perfect souond here but, as I mentioned earlier, a decent enough demo should be enough to pull us into a local dealer for a proper audition.

It depends. Ryan speakers at AXPONA with the Auralic all in one was not bright but sounded well balanced. There were many others that sounded the same.

I don't think I visited the Auralic room, but many others sounded quite good, yes. There were still those, however, that I had a problem with, and I know you and I both encountered a few of the same rooms being overly bright. (I'm thinking of the room with the otherwise excellent DS Audio optical phono cartridges...the system had other issues that didn't keep me hanging around that long, but the cartridge fascinated me enough to engage one of the reps to find out how it worked, and comment on how well it tracked. Can't recall the rest of the equipment, however. My brain isn't what it used to be.)

 

[datafone]

The OP is dated 26th march 2009

And the gear was 1 month old!

Did the issue still exist after everything settling in in the following couple of months?

I wonder...

 

[Wildcat]

The OP hasn't been here since June 2009...I think we're all left in limbo now.

 

[runnin']

Threads like this live on and help others with similar issues.

If one has gear that reveals changes in cable, I found something that really cleaned up harsh sounding highs for me. Interconnects and speaker cables that use multiple small gauge solid (not stranded) core copper that is individually insulated. I couldn't believe that this would work because I thought that all cables sound the same, and the cable industry was a waste of money. But I took a chance and I think the speaker cables cost under $100 although that would depend on the length needed and it was due to the suggestion by a member here.

He suggested Audioquest Type 4 speaker cables. I found them for $5 per foot online, so 2 eight foot lengths would cost 80 bucks plus shipping. Interconnects I already had covered with Morrow Audio MA cables, but Audioquest and Wireworld also have the same solid core approach. It really improved the highs. You wouldn't notice what the problem is with your highs with your old cables, but they get a lot cleaner, with the benefit being more focus and detail.

It's not a magic wand, but it does help.