How would an Empire 598 III stack up against my other tables?

[Wes_in_VA]

I've always considered the Empire tables some of the most beautiful pieces of kit there have ever been. I have an opportunity to own one and I need some insight.
I won't talk value or price about because that's not the point at this time.

My current TT's are a Kenwood Kd500 with an Acos Lustre GST arm and a Jvc QL7 stock. I've been on a DD kick for a while but in he past I've owned a marcmorin-ified AR XB and a hot rodded Rega Planar 2 so I have some belt drive love, too.

I'm leaning more towards musicality and warmth these days than absolute accuracy but I still have my audiophile tendencies.

I'm looking for any input as to how the "soul" of the Empire compares to my other current tables.
Also, though it comes with a cartridge (unknown at this point) I'm sure wondering how well the stock arm might play with my Best cart, an Ortofon Quintet Bronze??

 

[Dadbar]

I have an Empire 598-II that I love. These tables are wonderful but they do have their eccentricities. If you get one, make sure that you replace the 3 Lord grommets that hold the motor in place. These sag over time and allow the motor to hit the plinth. You can find these on Ebay.

My favorite feature of this table is the dynalift magnetic lift that picks the needle off the record at the end. Occasionally, there are some pressings that have content out to the edge and you get the characteristic rrrrr-rip sound as the arm is dragged up too early. I'm sure other Empire fans will know what I'm talking about.

These tables are MASSIVE. Highly recommended.

 

[biscuithead]

I've always considered the Empire tables some of the most beautiful pieces of kit there have ever been. I have an opportunity to own one and I need some insight.
I won't talk value or price about because that's not the point at this time.

My current TT's are a Kenwood Kd500 with an Acos Lustre GST arm and a Jvc QL7 stock. I've been on a DD kick for a while but in he past I've owned a marcmorin-ified AR XB and a hot rodded Rega Planar 2 so I have some belt drive love, too.

I'm leaning more towards musicality and warmth these days than absolute accuracy but I still have my audiophile tendencies.

I'm looking for any input as to how the "soul" of the Empire compares to my other current tables.
Also, though it comes with a cartridge (unknown at this point) I'm sure wondering how well the stock arm might play with my Best cart, an Ortofon Quintet Bronze??

I own a 598 II and a marcmorin-fied XA. The XA is more delicate and bare bones and just "thinner", but the XA is less trouble. However, the XA lacks the stature and physical presence . The XA is a Sleeper, quietly delivering excellent performance, the Empire puts a finger in your chest and screams " Look at me!" . My Empire has received lots of sweat and tears from me., I don't know which I'd choose if I was forced to get rid of one. I will tell you that I have been using my Empire a lot less than I use to, but I've been turning my attention to a TD-124...

I don't know about the Quintet and 980 arm/shell match. I am unfamiliar with that cart.

As far as the comparison to your other tables, if you're a collector, then you need to buy the Empire to find out...

 

[MRL_Audio]

I... the characteristic rrrrr-rip sound as the arm is dragged up too early. I'm sure other Empire fans will know what I'm talking about... Highly recommended.

Very familar sound but when it works, which is most of the time, it's a treat to use. Also will chime in that if you are a collector you need an Empire 598 in the collection.

 

[malden]

I have an Empire 598-II that I love. These tables are wonderful but they do have their eccentricities. If you get one, make sure that you replace the 3 Lord grommets that hold the motor in place. These sag over time and allow the motor to hit the plinth. You can find these on Ebay.

My favorite feature of this table is the dynalift magnetic lift that picks the needle off the record at the end. Occasionally, there are some pressings that have content out to the edge and you get the characteristic rrrrr-rip sound as the arm is dragged up too early. I'm sure other Empire fans will know what I'm talking about.

These tables are MASSIVE. Highly recommended.

Another place to get the grommets is at http://esotericsound.com/

 

[Wes_in_VA]

I'm lucky that this one has been rehabbed

 

[empirelvr]

Since you like direct drives, you'll probably love the 598. The combination of massive platter and high-torque motor helps give some of the "slam" you get easily from a top shelf DD or many idlers, while still having some of the delicacy and light touch belt drives like the AR are famous for. For me it's the best of both belt and DD worlds. Especially if you are able to use it sans the felt discs that form part of the suspension system. If you have a wall shelf or have a concrete floor holding your rack, removing the felt discs helps "float" the image more convincingly and also seems to make the bass more nimble. The con is it also makes the arm/platter VERY bouncy making it unusable on wood floors.

One thing to check for on the one you have a chance to get is that the delrin disc in the bearing has been flipped or replaced due to the sharp point of the platter creating a dimple on the delrin surface over the decades. It does make a difference.

And I would check to see how the speed is since the belt is the hardest part of the system to get a proper replacement for. (If you've read any of the Empire threads here you'll know that is a real issue.)

The Bronze should work well in the arm, especially near the top of it's VTF range. The 980 arm loves medium to medium low compliance cartridges.

 

[WaynerN]

The arm is the weak point of the table (I have the 598MKII) as any other alignment then the "Empire" alignment (what ever that is) is pretty tough to get right. I eventually got mine into a Baerwald. My AS spring has also stretched so it really does not work like it should (tested with a blank disc). If I had $500 laying around doing nothing, I would buy a Jelco 250 arm (which will drop right in) and life would be much better for the machine. The rest of the table (platter, bearings, suspension, motor, base) are going to last a long, long time, and yes the delrin bearing needs to be either flipped or replaced (you will need a retaining ring tool to do this), because of the dimple, as empirelvr has pointed out. I use Slick 50 to lube the bearings.

BTW, my Empire is the one I bought when I was 19 years old from Illinois Audio, way back in 1973. I have gone thru a couple of belts and many cartridges with it. It replaced my 2 motor version AR-XA which I sold to a friend (did not like that turntable's weak motors). It sits in my studio on a shelf and occasionally gets to play some records, but pretty much is now just a museum piece.

 

[MRL_Audio]

WynerN - has yours developed any patina in the gold finish? Seems like every one I have ever seen has some somewhere from a ridiculous amount to barely noticeable. I have played with a couple of "fixes" but nothing that really delivered anything to my satisfaction. My table has a couple of age spots but nothing bad and for a casual look most people won't notice. Ah... but for the owner I have to see it every time I use her. Thanks.

 

[restorer-john]

...BTW, my Empire is the one I bought when I was 19 years old from Illinois Audio, way back in 1973. I have gone thru a couple of belts and many cartridges with it. .. but pretty much is now just a museum piece....

That was a pretty significant purchase for a 19yo, a TOTL Empire in '73. Awesome it has stayed with you all these years.

 

[WaynerN]

WynerN - has yours developed any patina in the gold finish? Seems like every one I have ever seen has some somewhere from a ridiculous amount to barely noticeable. I have played with a couple of "fixes" but nothing that really delivered anything to my satisfaction. My table has a couple of age spots but nothing bad and for a casual look most people won't notice. Ah... but for the owner I have to see it every time I use her. Thanks.

The metal plinth part is pretty new looking as is the platter and outer rim. The arm is in good shape but there are some "age spots" around the tonearm's head. I'm not sure what Empire used to plate the aluminum die-castings, surely it is a copper alloy, more then likely 85/5/5/5 brass. I do know the die-cast parts are not the usual (now days) "white metal", which is just a garbage alloy. Tomorrow, I will post a nice picture of it.

 

[WaynerN]

That was a pretty significant purchase for a 19yo, a TOTL Empire in '73. Awesome it has stayed with you all these years.

It was not mine for 3 months. I sold it to a guy at work back in the mid 1980s and I was in a depression about it, asked him if I could buy it back, and he agreed. It cost me the original sale price, plus I thru in a new(er) Marantz turntable (a linear tracker). One of the most STUPIDIST things I have ever done in my life (besides selling my Marantz 3300 preamp and 240 power amp in walnut cabinets for $100), I have replaced the 3300.

What a dumb fu__er I am sometimes..........

 

[Wes_in_VA]

I decided to pass.
As much as I've always wanted one of these tables, I'm early in a project to build a new plinth for the JVC drive unit to turn that into my main table. I just couldn't see buying another table now when I've barely started on that.
I appreciate the input. I have a feelin one day I'll end up with an Empire but not right now.

 

[Wes_in_VA]

BTW, if anyone is interested this one is at Strictly Discs in Madison WI. One of my favorite record stores to visit and they usually have some cool gear, too.

 

[REALskylark]

BTW, my Empire is the one I bought when I was 19 years old from Illinois Audio, way back in 1973. I have gone thru a couple of belts and many cartridges with it. It replaced my 2 motor version AR-XA which I sold to a friend (did not like that turntable's weak motors). It sits in my studio on a shelf and occasionally gets to play some records, but pretty much is now just a museum piece.

I was right behind you. I bought mine in 1975 when I was 18. Still using it today, nearly 50 years later... ;^)