I can't seem to win. Marantz PM6005

Discussion in 'Marantz Audio' started by SpicySammich, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. SpicySammich

    SpicySammich Active Member

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    288
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    All,

    So my journey began with an old Sansui 2000a. After a few years, I really wanted to move to a sharper modern sound.

    I started with a Yamaha A-S501 which I found hard to believe had 85 watts as it was clean but gutless. So, I moved on.

    I then went to a Marantz PM6005. Yay for the loudness button and a more muscular sound. But here is the thing, it's a touch shrill on the top end. If I turn the treble all the way down (-10db) it's still pretty sharp and at times brassy. This is when using the optical in from a 2nd gen Apple TV and also from the on board phono stage.

    While I do plan to go with a Lounge LCR MKIII I have to wonder if this is typical. It's a refurb and I have approximately 150 hours on the amp.

    I'd also add that it's not everything that sounds way sharp. Movies seem to sound best with the treble all the way down as do list but not all records. My speaker cables are copper (Blue Jean 12 AWG), no idea what my interconnects are but they weren't this sharp with the Sui or the Yammy.

    Ortofon 2M Blue -> on board phono -> Focal 807v
     
  2. Bert 1100

    Bert 1100 Well-Known Member

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    966
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    Planquiri !
    Wow, that's quite extreme... I have the PM8005, MOST of the time I use it in "direct" mode, no loudness, and I'm happy with the sound.

    First the Yam, now the Marantz...

    To me it sounds like there is a problem somewhere else.
    Maybe you are really used to your Sansui, which could sound muffled if it hasn't been restored.
    Maybe you need to get used to using no tone controls ?

    What is the rest of your system ?
     
  3. SpicySammich

    SpicySammich Active Member

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    288
    Location:
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    I'm well aware on how to use tone controls. Rest of system is last line in original post.

    I don't us direct mode because I like more than midrange.
     
  4. Bert 1100

    Bert 1100 Well-Known Member

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    966
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    Planquiri !
    Maybe you need to experiment with speaker placement and room treatment ? Or try a different room to have an idea of how things change ?

    To me the loudness button on my vintage receivers / amps is so extreme I can't use it at all.

    Do you mean that without tone controls all you have is midrange ?
     
  5. SpicySammich

    SpicySammich Active Member

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    288
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    Speakers are in a good spot. No speaker placement will affect high frequencies like this.

    I actually like a little bass, which is uncool these days I know.
     
  6. Bert 1100

    Bert 1100 Well-Known Member

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    966
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    Planquiri !
    I like my bass as well :)
    And I don't think it's uncool. What IS uncool is all the listening straight from phones and the usually terrible tiny bluetooth speakers...

    Placement will not affect high frequencies much but it can definitely accentuate bass, changing the overall balance.
     
  7. airtime

    airtime Super Member

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    1,950
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    I think it's your source. My PM8005 if anything has a noticeable top end roll off.
     
  8. Bodyblue

    Bodyblue AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I will pop in and offer a somewhat heretical suggestion: There is a well known but often scorned (on here) device for adjusting the tone of one's system............an EQ. It just might work for you..... of course you will have to lie to your friends and family about using one (oh the shame).

    I dont use one on my main vintage all Marantz system but I do on one of our bedroom systems and I really like how I can cut the bass just a bit. Everybody hears things differently and using an EQ can be quite useful in some systems.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. SpicySammich

    SpicySammich Active Member

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    The internal phono?
     
  10. SpicySammich

    SpicySammich Active Member

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    288
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    I'm a believer in tone controls, an external EQ would be more money and bother at this point.
     
  11. freQ(*)Oddio

    freQ(*)Oddio Riding Eternal Tracks on a Hot Wired Train . Subscriber

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    the loudness will boost treble also up to 6db beyond your treble control , that is the problem, turn the loudness off, turn bass way up , past 3/4, as what the loudness was doing. the focals are known also for a bright high end adding to it also.
     
  12. HVHiFI

    HVHiFI Hudson Valley HiFI Subscriber

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    Not typical at all. If anything I would describe Marantz as a bit on the dark side. May be something wrong with the refurb amp.
     
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  13. SpicySammich

    SpicySammich Active Member

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    I've been trying to find documentation on this. I do know it boosts at 50hz. This was my first thought.
     
  14. SpicySammich

    SpicySammich Active Member

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    I hope not. This is my fear.
     
  15. raidermc

    raidermc It Is What It Is Subscriber

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    A proper restore job on any Marantz I have owned is not at all dark imho. Speaker and Amp matching has more to do with the final "perceived" tonal quality then most any thing else imho.
    It all comes down to how you like your "sound" and whatever frequency attenuation you could be dealing within your auditory range.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  16. freQ(*)Oddio

    freQ(*)Oddio Riding Eternal Tracks on a Hot Wired Train . Subscriber

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    I would say treble is a + 6 @12khz along with a mid drop,
     
  17. SpicySammich

    SpicySammich Active Member

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    I dont recall a bump in the treble but it seems like it would be the same frequency as the treble attenuation @ 15k

    I'd also add that I do hear the effect when turning the knob(s) so they are operating. With the treble all the way down it sounds pretty good. I'm just shocked that theres that much still coming through. The only thing I can surmise is that 15k is so high that its just making a small, targeted adjustment in terms of the frequency range being affected. I can't test it until tonight.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
    raidermc likes this.
  18. SpicySammich

    SpicySammich Active Member

    Messages:
    288
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Finally got a chance to play with things. Loudness button does add a bump to the top end. I think my Focals are not super capatible in that sense.

    I turned the bass up to about +7 / 10, the treble up from -10 to about -4 and the loudness off. The attenuation curve is not the same on the bass but it's got less on the low, say 50 - 120 hz, but more above that which is different but nice. Darker snare tones have more impact. Killing Joke's Money Is Not Our God, whose drum intro is excellent, had less thump but more slam. Im excited to upgrade the phonostage but that's a few months away.
     
  19. charles 1973

    charles 1973 Super Member

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    2,886
    Couldn't agree more. Synergy plays an important role in our overall satisfaction of any stereo system, Regardless of price. Your combination of equipment may be incompatible for the sound you want.

    If the Sansui receiver is working properly it probably has a Smoother, Warmer sound than the other amps you tried, Especially compared to the Yamaha. All are fine amps when paired with the right speakers.

    The Ortofon 2M cartridges have a somewhat brighter sound than some others, Like Nagoaka's warm and detailed MP 110 or MP200. Both are fine cartridges, Just different.

    Most importantly It looks like the Focal's 807v speakers have a refined, lean sound, Not unlike some others. Properly paired they might be fine for some. However, when Combined with a cartridge and amp that tend toward the same effect I'm not surprised at the results.

    As an example of synergy. You could use the same cartridge with any amp you mentioned, but use Monitor Audio Silver RS6 speakers instead, that stereophile says "highs seemed almost as extended as the Focal's, but the RS6 was a bit more forgiving at the extreme top end. The floor-standing Monitor's bass extension and high-level dynamic performance, however, were by far the strongest of the group". This might be what you are looking for. PSB also makes some fine speakers in that price range if you want that full bodied, yet detailed sound.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
    raidermc likes this.

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