I don't rant much but Discogs has turned into a Joke

[4-2-7]

They are wiping out all values and sales info on records that are deemed Unofficial, Bootleg or anything really that is not owned by a label at the time of pressing.

In other words there goes half of the Beatles records,
Anything that was pressed form a board tape, radio broadcast and so forth.

I'm not just talking only about real boot legs from people going into concerts and doing a recording under the radar and going to a shady pressing plant, xeroxed paper cover art. Or even all the counterfeit well done studio copies that a lot of you don't even realize is a fake. These are all gone but so are many many more your buying right now in the stores and online.

I would say at least 30% of new records in the stores are Unofficial and concert board tapes of old band performances.

Discogs would have new sale pricing and that would update old sales Low Med and High for an idea what records cost and have sold for. They still have that for records you can sell on the site, but the records they now block don't show that price history anymore.

A collector, which is what most use the site that are not sellers is to get info on a specific record and come to a value. Lots of Unofficial records are highly collectable and valuable, even the fairly new ones that made short runs and are out of print now.

Anyone know of other sites for current values? The collector books only come out every few years or so, not to mention they are so hard to used and the print is so so tinny.

 

[dcmfan]

Anyone know of other sites for current values?

Try WWW.Popsikecom

Put the title you're looking for into the search box and it will come back with recent sales and a chart showing a distribution of prices and the median, mean, lowest and highest prices. There's some release information available also - label, date, and catalog number.

Popsike doesn't give the matrix detail that Discogs shows, but doesn't censor bootlegs. I just entered a search for "Farewell to Winterland" and got 120 results.

 

[bluestime]

http://collectorsfrenzy.com/ Similar to popsike

 

[4-2-7]

http://collectorsfrenzy.com/ Similar to popsike

Nether of those sits actually ID the record your buying, or selling. The record below is one of the most counterfeit Beatles titles, I have five old ones and only one is real.

THE BEATLES INTRODUCING THE BEATLES ORIGINAL MONO LP STILL SEALED



introducing...THE BEATLES 1964 MONO FIRST PRESSING100% ORIGINAL FACTORY SEALED LP VEE-JAY RECORDS MINT, UNPLAYED RECORD NEAR MINT COVER VERY SHARP CORNERS PERFECT, LEGIBLE SPINE BRIGHT VIVID COLORS NO CREASES NO FADING NO RING WEAR NO RECORD WEAR NO SPLIT SEAMS BREATHE HOLES FRONT AND BACK ORIGINAL STORE STICKER IS STILL INTACT VJLP 1062100% ORIGINAL, NOT A FAKE, REISSUE, OR COUNTERFEITOne of the finest examples of this Beatles album you will find. No issues at all. And it's still sealed!!

• Price:
  • $2191.75 USD
• Start Date:October 09, 2017
• End Date:October 14, 2017
• Bids:22
• Seller Feedback:162
• Buyer Feedback:15

That's ^^^ fricken crazy, the seller never even pointed out some of the correct cover info and one of the best ID for these records is the label. And the best ID for almost all records is the dead wax after finding catalogue numbers and cover print info.

 

[4-2-7]

Collector’s Corner: How to value ‘Introducing The Beatles’

http://www.goldminemag.com/collecto...s-corner-how-to-value-introducing-the-beatles

 

[j_loop]

There are a few bands that are very militant about squashing unofficial albums and some of those bands are very popular and influential. I assume they put pressure on the site to eliminate their own unofficial albums from being sold, but I doubt Discogs will do this on a case-by-case basis and simply decided to eliminate the sale of any and all unofficial albums. Honestly I can't blame them, it's just asking for a headache. They still have listings for the unofficial albums so one can use the site to help determine if their copy is legit or not, you just can't sell it or see any sales history.
30% of records in stores being unofficial seems rather high to me. At least the stores I shop at.

 

[MRL_Audio]

At the end of the day it has to be about money for Discogs. Sometimes I can't figure out why leaving things as they are is a bad thing. Not that I am opposed to change but sometimes I feel like the change happens for no good reason and rarely do companies provide explanations as to why. I guess that's because it's not to provide a better customer experience but almost always to enhance profits. Got it but doesn't have to mean I like it...

 

[4-2-7]

but I doubt Discogs will do this on a case-by-case basis and simply decided to eliminate the sale of any and all unofficial albums.

It's not even Discogs getting pressured, it's the owner of the site.
https://thevinylfactory.com/features/do-bootlegs-matter-what-discogs-new-crackdown-means-for-future/


Look at this title
Nirvana ‎– Feels Like The First Time
https://www.discogs.com/Nirvana-Feels-Like-The-First-Time/release/5931676

On this label, and if you have any number of new records you might have records on this label
Let Them Eat Vinyl
http://www.letthemeatvinyl.com/catalogue.htm

And this is just one of the many common labels that do a lot of professional records of concerts, they own the board tapes. Record stores are full of these records

KeyHole record is another one and I wonder how their titles look at discogs
https://www.amoeba.com/music/label/75437#/


Yep the same thing
It's A Beautiful Day ‎– Live At The Fillmore West (The Fillmore 1 July 1971)
Label:
Keyhole ‎– KH2CD9009
https://www.discogs.com/Its-A-Beaut...West-The-Fillmore-1-July-1971/release/5612662

 

[4-2-7]

These records are being sold in every major store but Discogs you can't sell or buy them let alone know the going value of them.

I never liked using eBay for a price guid because it's normally to high with world wide itchy fingers bidding.

Even the old used bootlegs that cut the artiest out of money, the damage has be done and over with long long ago, what remains is the collect ability and the collector getting the shaft from discogs and the collector built that site.

 

[4-2-7]

I just wish I had more of my boots, unofficial and counterfeit records logged in my collection. Within the collection you can see the prices although they will never move over time anymore nor do I know how long till they delete that on me.

Example in my collection
U2 - The Cork Connection(Sambooka - 4315) 2xLP, TP, Unofficial 1987 Uncategorized 5 months ago $15.00 $25.04 $42.99
Thats the low med and high sold price when I logged it in.

Here is the record blocked on this titles page
https://www.discogs.com/U2-The-Cork-Connection/release/3123112

A word of advice go into your collection and write down the price of your titles that are being blocked so you at least have a reference point down the road. Or even copy and past this info somewhere you have total control of.

I wonder if we can start a thread in Dollars and Cents or Barter Town and post some info like I just did above for other to use and see?

 

[j_loop]

How is eBay about boots these days? I haven't looked to buy or sell any in a long time, but I remember about 6 years ago it was very artist-specific. Meaning they'd let some artist's boots be sold, but others would be forcibly taken down within a matter of minutes.
These were mainly concert boots.

 

[4-2-7]

How is eBay about boots these days? I haven't looked to buy or sell any in a long time, but I remember about 6 years ago it was very artist-specific. Meaning they'd let some artist's boots be sold, but others would be forcibly taken down within a matter of minutes.
These were mainly concert boots.

I don't know as I don't sell or buy records on eBay, I heard you can't sell boots on the bay. I'm sure that would be more how you describe it though.
The only time I'm on ebay to look at records is when I search for values and google might pull up some listings, they tend to be higher than Discogs.

But I think we are missing what I'm trying to point out, Discogs is the top dog for looking up absolute specific titles right down to all the ID factors of cover and label print as well as dead wax matrix. They would then have sales history as well as new sale asking price for current sales for the very specific title.

Sure some banned content would be blocked from sales as it should be, new pirated titles and vulgarity.

In this day and age that you can hear any music for free just about anywhere.

Why would anyone care about a crapy recorded record from 40 years ago that has a collector value because of very limited numbers. This type of record I'm talking about where the shady boots that people would sneak into shady record stores. These are old used records and they are not cutting out the artist anymore or the label. Today we can go buy the used official record in store for $2.00 and the label and artist don't get money for that sale.

We can say a vast majority of old used Beatles records are old professional Counterfeits. We know that today because of the collectors sharing info to ID the records.

Todays new records, we have countries that have been putting out old titles for many many years. these are copies and unofficial of that title. The record stores are full of these coming from Europe, Czech Republic, Spain and so forth. These are the cheap imports that cost around $18-$21.

We also have a big industry making new records from board tapes that the artist nor the label owned any rights to. Those rights where signed away playing in that club and venue. These historic tapes should be able to be heard IMHO. So now we are seeing expensive well made records in the stores form these tapes. These again are unofficial titles.

Now the Discogs owner is having some kind of moral ideology saying you can't sell records that are Unofficial, Counterfeit, Bootlegs and vulgarity.

One of the most valuable record is a Unofficial Elvis Christmas album that some workers in the pressing plant made some red ones until the manager caught them.

So you can go to a record store online and BM and buy 6 records new all legal. Go to Discogs and have no price history or sales of half of your records you just bought. That's nuts for a site that has been built up with info from the collector world.

 

[4-2-7]

Go buy these titles anywhere you want but Discogs, and don't expect to have them let you know that the value went up when they are out of print.

It's A Beautiful Day ‎– Live At The Fillmore West (The Fillmore 1 July 1971)
https://www.google.com/search?q=It'...1)&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Nirvana ‎– Feels Like The First Time
https://www.google.com/search?q=Nir...me&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[luke85]

made a post about this a while ago, banning boots/unofficial recording will be discogs downfall, the main reason i joined that websites was to buy boots

 

[hjames]

I dunno man, how many Hendrix/Doors boots can you buy??
After I while I could not bear any more ancient shows ... Even the John McLaughlin/Jimi Jam session can only be played So Many Times -
I really prefer music from the last 25-30 years ...

made a post about this a while ago, banning boots/unofficial recording will be discogs downfall, the main reason i joined that websites was to buy boots

 

[MRL_Audio]

Every one has favorites...

 

[Ken Boyd]

Really I can understand the reason behind Discogs decision and from the artist point. The artist looks at discogs or anyone selling illegal products just like if someone had a car chop shop selling stolen cars or stolen car parts. It is illegal products being sold, and it doesn't matter that their are a lot of boot legs or few boot legs. It doesn't matter that they are old or new, what matters is, it is proprietary property and the thieves were using Discogs as a means to fence the stolen goods. Everyone should think what if I was an artist and created something special, and now everyone just copies my products and uses various websites to sell my art right in front of me. It is illegal, Discogs knows it is an illegal product and really they have no choice. Now they have gotten Discogs, now they can go after any other violator.

 

[45rpmspinner]

As I see it, the real problem is that by removing "boots" Discogs undercuts it's oft stated primary purpose as a discographical site. Something which, frankly, they've never really been very good at.

Since the beginning of the site, folks have customarily listed bootlegs of specific recordings as "second pressings" right along with original pressings. Nothing the site is doing at this point addresses that situation. In fact, not only is there no real mechanism for addressing that problem, I don't think there's even enough collective wisdom on the site to address the problem.

Thus, they are stuck with making knee-jerk moves against sellers of unofficial recordings [bootlegs, yes, but not actually the same as what I mentioned above]....and in some cases deleting legit entries which simply use the word "bootleg" in the title. Again, showing the collective lack of knowledge.

I agree that this is a turning point for the site. Quite a lot of people are put off....and that goes far beyond sellers/buyers of unofficial recordings.

 

[Hajidub]

Found so much stuff on Discogs, rare (obscure) that was priced well below value I can't complain. I agree with ya 4-2-7 on your original point. Those inflated prices probably have saved me money and disappointment...lol.

 

[grillebilly]

Discogs knows it is an illegal product and really they have no choice.

Doing the right thing is often frowned upon. Especially by those who have become accustomed to getting something for free. Discogs is a pretty handy tool for most of us to research bands and their releases. I'm not sure where their income comes from. I don't spend money there other than to purchase music. My guess is they take a percentage of the sale from the seller, but that is an assumption. As far as not listing values of releases of questionable origin, it most likely was a business decision that made sense to them. I can't fault them for that. If that opens up a potential market that would be profitable for an interested party, than you know it will happen soon enough. If not, than it was a losing proposition all along.