I get the point. If you have the scratch and don't enjoy tinkering, new stuff is great. I like tinkering and I'm a cheapskate.
I give up on Vintage
- Thread starter Vistance
- Start date
I get the point. If you have the scratch and don't enjoy tinkering, new stuff is great. I like tinkering and I'm a cheapskate.
Ths364
Super Member
I simply can't usually afford new stuff that plays up to the level of the old stuff I have. The more modern pieces I've had have been very good sounding. I suspect that part of the problem in the new vs vintage beef is that there was so much good mid level consumer-grade gear put out in the 70's that more modern stuff has a hard time because the market for this type of gear is so diluted by other stuff competing for our entertainment dollar. Plasma screens, video gaming, internet and social media, jet -ski's etc. Stereo is just not the big deal with as large a percentage of the public as it used to be. I have some very good sounding vintage gear. A friend loaned me a newer Marantz full setup-TOTL (top of the line) SACD, Preamp, and 300w monoblocks
and I'll tell you it was VERY nice sounding. If it were mine I'd have very little interest in the vintage stuff anymore.
and I'll tell you it was VERY nice sounding. If it were mine I'd have very little interest in the vintage stuff anymore.
I haven't gone to dinner yet and I'm not looking forward to it, as it involves walking nearly a mile in sub 20 degrees downtown Chicago. But you guy's will love it because it'll mean you get like 3 or 4 hours to bash modern and I won't see it!
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cubdog
banging through drywall
I haven't gone to dinner yet and I'm not looking forward to it, as it involves walking nearly a mile in sub 20 degrees downtown Chicago. But you guy's will love it because it'll mean you get like 3 or 4 hours to bash modern and I won't see it!
You're a peach!
cubdog
Vistance
Super Member
Well, the 919 goes for about $500 it seems, and factor the restoration cost will be much the same price but for different reasons (Less labor, more on the parts expense - which is the reverse for the 9090db). The 919 is a sight better than the 9090db I could imagine, but again I am completely not a fan of Sansui at all. A friend of mine used to have an AU/TU setup (I can't remember if both were 717's or 919's) but he mentioned the nasty habit they have if a part fails it tends to take several parts with it instead of just the initial bad part. So an initial restoration would probably cost you a big chunk of money, and any additional repairs would cost smaller but still reasonably big chunks of money. People would praise the claim of vintage value a lot, but after a certain time you will have paid more than the 919 is worth and the sonic performance will never surpass the original. The 919 would end up at the $1,000 tag quickly after purchasing and restoration. Once again Sansui is used because of my distaste for them, I like Marantz so I have no desire to actually rag on any of them.
I find it funny that my 3250 is a BOTL piece of junk, but my 2215b is not. So what gives, you mean to tell me a cheaper receiver was built better than separates by the same company? That's really speaking poorly of Marantz if you think so, and I personally don't find any truth to that. Don't confuse BOTL with "I don't like that model" because that is a large distinction. You might not like a BMW 750 iL compared to a Mercedes S550, but that doesn't suddenly make the 750 iL BOTL by any stretch of the matter. Compare the 3250 to other preamps of its time. It's by no means a BOTL unit. Also I don't see the 3250 as junk because this hum has developed. At least it still works, arguably one might not hear the hum while music is being played but I'm a perfectionist and I don't want to sell it with it humming because I wouldn't be happy using it myself if it did this. Given that admission, modern gear probably is best for me - I hate having to figure out where the hums, pops, and other sounds are coming from or why. Too much time you must take out to troubleshoot an amp that you won't even get to listen to it. You can't deny that this is something you may possibly have to do at any given moment.
The point that modern gear will break down eventually as vintage does right. But the modern gear is so new that it still has 20+ years to go before that happens. That means if you find the amp you really enjoy right now, you can get 20+ years out of it before it will start developing issues. I'd say that's a lot better value for your money than a vintage piece that might work fine for who knows how long, maybe 1-2 years or even 5+ years. You can't tell me that paying $1,000 for gear right now that will very likely work for many years without a problem (Let's assume you're a normal person who doesn't try to do weird things with your amps, playing standard 4/8 ohm speakers at normal volume levels in a normal room) isn't a very cost effective thing to do compared to spending $500 on an old amp, then another $500 fixing it up and then in the same 20 year time period spending periodically $200-250 to have spot repairs if something goes awry.
I think this is the biggest point modern people would simply like vintage people to understand. Along with the idea that we're not talking about Insignia receivers at Best Buy when we say "modern" gear, and the fact everything isn't plastic or perhaps even *gasp* the notion that plastic isn't bad (NAD for example).
pingu_turbo
On a constant search...
I get the point. If you have the scratch and don't enjoy tinkering, new stuff is great. I like tinkering and I'm a cheapskate.
Mine too.
Rowrbazzle
Active Member
Mine too.
Pithy. Almost aphoristic.
Your posts are funny and interesting.
LOL@ Almost aphoristic - it's the "almost" that adds the humor, IMO. :thmbsp:
I haven't gone to dinner yet and I'm not looking forward to it, as it involves walking nearly a mile in sub 20 degrees downtown Chicago. But you guy's will love it because it'll mean you get like 3 or 4 hours to bash modern and I won't see it!
A good debate, and you've held up your end admirably. All involved have put forth good, reasoned arguments.
I would loved to have jumped in, but just don't have the time!
Tim64
Super Member
I get the point. If you have the scratch and don't enjoy tinkering, new stuff is great. I like tinkering and I'm a cheapskate.
I think Sam nailed it here. Those of us who can repair our own gear, and I myself enjoy bringing a silver faced receiver back to life can buy this stuff for next to nothing. If I could afford it I would prefer a couple mono blocks and a pair of Martin Logans but those are not gonna show up at a thrift store for Ten bucks. For the budget minded I listened to a 300.00 BPC Yamaha and it sounded
good to me. One thing on the new stuff I don't like is the feel of the volume controls on the budget stuff they use those plastic film pots. I also had the Sherwood BPC which I paid 99.00 for at Best Buy in the 90's and for the money it sounded pretty darn good. It died from a power surge ala lightening it was 8 years old. Curious to see how much further this threads gonna go.
If you want the world's most awesome volume knob, get a vintage Onkyo A-7 or A-10 integrated. You'll feel like you're controlling the volume of the harps in heaven.
You want Harps.... Get a 10b, 7c and a set of 9s..... And those Marantz rule......period.
They sound nice but that Onkyo has the best volume knob. I think they used the same knob on the Death Star to turn on the laser that blew up whole planets.
I'm sorry fellas, but I'm going to have to submit my own Shanling for the best volume knob ever:
It's a heavy CNC'd aluminum tree trunk connected to a motorized Alps pot via a long connecting rod that passes through two sets bearings and a couple U-joints. I got to give a disconnected one a spin at the store and it was like spinning a rollerblade wheel! Smooth, weighted, and long-spinning.
jstang
Honey,I can't hear you...
Two amps below... As the bits went thru the internet transporter, I think you trans mutated the 7c to an 8b.... But who's counting....
Or did you have a liquid lunch like mine?
As the bits went thru the internet transporter, I think you trans mutated the 7c to an 8b.... But who's counting.... Or did you have a liquid lunch like mine?
You want harps, Yorx integrated! 10b-junk, 8b even more junk, 9's- thee worst amps ever made
