I need a new cart, please help

[crazytubepower]

I have a denon LOMC the dl-303, a rare model, high-end. I am looking to go the MC route so I do not have to use a step-up transformer. What is a good cart for say $300. I was thinking about grado, but it may be too tall for my linear tracking yamaha px-3. So please your sugestions would be more than welcome!

 

[Nat]

I think you may mean MM, not MC. Unless you meant a high output MC, but your mentioning of a Grado suggests that you are interested in moving magnets. A Grado is a good idea unless you are right that it would be too tall for your arm. A Stanton 681EE or 881 might be a classic suggestion if the Grado doesn't fit.

 

[Holst]

.... adding to the confusion. The Stanton has a low output, like a high output MC

 

[hifi_nut]

I have no personal experience, but from what I´ve read in this forum some Grados have a tendency to hum in some decks...
Jorge

 

[crazytubepower]

I ment hi output mc or mm, I was looking at the sumiko's, the blue point evo, Good or not?

 

[hifi_nut]

I ment hi output mc or mm, I was looking at the sumiko's, the blue point evo, Good or not?

I own the previous Blue Point Special MkII. Just great for the price.
Jorge

 

[ByrdWyngs]

Most of the comments I've heard about the BPS are either love it or hate it, not much middle ground. If you want to stick with a HOMC you might also want to consider the Benz Micro Silver, Ortofon X5-MC, and my recent choice the Dynavector 10X5. Or for a bit less money the Denon DL160 has a loyal following and the Ortofon X3-MC has gotten very good reviews. I don't know which of them would necessarily be a good match for the PX-3 and the rest of your system though.

 

[emaidel]

Having worked for Pickering in the 70's and Stanton in the 90's, I have strong opinions about the various products from both companies. Currently, the new owners of Stanton have attempted to resurrect Pickering, but with strange choices, and as such, I don't recommend any of them. You can still buy an 881S at places like Needle Doctor, and you can buy 681EEE's there too. I strongly recommend the 881 over the 681, and think it remains one of the best consumer cartridges ever made. It's quite unlikely you'll be able to find the Stanton Collector's Series 100, which was essentially a hand-tweaked 881S, but in the event you do, snatch it up immediately. It's terrific.

Hope this was helpful.

 

[Nat]

Where did this idea that the Stanton 881 has a low output come from? None of the literature I have seen suggests it does, though that literature is older. Is there a new 881 with a different design than the older one?
I had a couple of the LZS series, which did have MC level outputs and liked them very much, only giving them up when I couldn't replace styli. So I'd be interested in the 881 if it were like the LZSs, but I don't think it is.

 

[ByrdWyngs]

Where did this idea that the Stanton 881 has a low output come from?

I think a lot of the confusion comes from the fact that Stanton spec's the output level of their cartridges at 1cm/sec while most other mfg's spec theirs at 5cm/sec. That means that Stanton's published specs are 1/5 of what would compare to most other cart's. Stanton's spec for the 881 is 0.9mv and the 681 is 0.7mv while most other MM and MI carts are spec'ed in the 4mv to 6mv range. So it looks like the output is really low but if you multiply by 5 to correct for the difference in test conditions then you get 4.5mv for the 881 and 3.5mv for the 681 which puts them in the same range as most other MM, MI, and HOMC carts.

 

[jcmjrt]

A few months ago I was looking for a HOMC and I ended up with the Benz Micro Silver. I had had the Denon DL-303 (LOMC) but had changed pres so needed to change cartridges. I've been pleased but couldn't say that I got to demo others. This was a recommendation from a shop that had a couple of other choices on hand to sell and recommended this for me. I auditioned it on a VPI Scout and then on my own TT before purchasing.

 

[NoTransistors]

Emaidel, are you Shainamadel's brother, or you have no clue what I am saying?

More to the point, I love My old 681EEE, and want to upgrade to a new 881. There have been many complaints of brand new 881s having styli that are off-center or not perpendicular to the record. Has this been addressed by Stanton? And, do they still supply naked styli, or have they gone cheap?

Seth
Forever Analog

 

[cfoster]

I have owned a Stanton 681 EEE since they were introduced and used it for many years. I never had low output problems from it and have no idea where such a notion came from. Some years ago, I went back to Shure because of the better tracking and am currently using the M97xE and loving it. They are not expensive and in fact, I think are a real bargan, so much so, I own two. Don't get me wrong, I still love my Stanton and it's still mounted up and in a spare TT. It needs a new stylus and one day after I get one, I intend to A/B them. It should be interesting :scratch2:

Clyde

 

[emaidel]

No, I'm not her brother, and the only time I ever saw such a use of "Maidel" other than in my own name, was for an off-Broadway play called, "A Shayna Maidel." So, I guess I really don't know what your'e talking about.

Insofar as the output of the various Stanton cartridges discussed in this thread, I didn't mean to imply that either the 681EEE or 881S were "low output," but simply good cartridges. The "low impedance" models both Pickering and Stanton introduced as competition to the very low output moving coil models were a marketing and sales flops, and, quite frankly, not so great sounding either. I'd still choose an 881S over any of them.

Insofar as the complaints about 881 styli not being perpendicular, if you were able to see the manner in which ANY Stanton or Pickering stylus was manufactured, you'd realize that such complaints are ill-founded, and just plain wrong. I'd categorically state that such a complaint is for a fabricated problem, and not a real one. Insofar as a "nude" stylus, that, I'm afraid is no longer used by Stanton (and hasn't been for about a decade) simply due to the extraordinarily high cost of such a jewel. The bonded diamonds (which are still of a very high quality and of an exceptionally high polish) were quietly substitued a long time ago, and no one's complained yet, so I guess they're not so bad after all, wouldn't you agree?

 

[NoTransistors]

Shayna Maidel is Yiddish for pretty girl. My girlfriend calls my Persian cat 'Shaynala', and he certainly is very pretty. She also calls him 'Ketsela', which I believe means 'kitten'. This is the extent of my foreign language skills.

Based on your recommendation, and my love of the 681EEE, I might just go for a new 881.

Seth
Forever Analog

 

[idlerwheel]

Let's take the misconception that Stanton/Pickering cartridges produce low output and bury it with a silver stake through the heart. This is pure BS!

I have extensive experience with the line -- almost every cartridge model since 1970 and back into the mid 60s. Although there are slight discrepancies, I can assure you that the output is consistently strong across the board.

As long as we're using Yiddish, the output is "zophtig."

Richard

 

[Nat]

I'm not sure your post is as clarifying as it intends to be, since it ignores the Stanton LZS series and whatever the Pickering eqivalent was. These were genuine low output cartridges. While its correct that all the other models were high output (even if people have confused output at 1cm/sec with the actual output, which would be 3 or 4 times that at real velocities) saying 'across the board' is incorrect.

 

[pustelniakr]

I am throwing my hat in for the Benz Micro MC Silver. It is a high output MC cart that, for me anyway, has been some of the best money spent on audio gear. The base won't boom you out of the room, but the way it draws everything out of those grooves that is there is amazing. I never heard such staging, and the nuances and slight details that are brought out of vinyl I thought I knew well. Its almost like listening to some of my vinyl for the first time. Just a bit more than your $300 limit, but worth every penny.

BTW...they like the VTA adjusted to a slight tail drag for best base response.

Rich P

 

[idlerwheel]

I'm not sure your post is as clarifying as it intends to be, since it ignores the Stanton LZS series and whatever the Pickering eqivalent was. These were genuine low output cartridges. While its correct that all the other models were high output (even if people have confused output at 1cm/sec with the actual output, which would be 3 or 4 times that at real velocities) saying 'across the board' is incorrect.

Yeah, yeah. OK: you wanna split hairs? I'll split.
The Stanton and Pickering LZS models were electrically similar to classic low-output moving coil products and ran into the same inputs. For them that don't know, these models were moving magnet designs with replaceable stlyli. There were approximately 5 models, total, differing in their styli. In addition, there were one or two more low-Z models in Stanton's Epoch brand (the less said about which, the better). I'm familiar with them: In fact, I've got three of them and more styli.

I usually leave all of these out of discussions because so few of them were sold. Reviews in the foreign press were stunningly good (except for the Epochs).

Regarding the "real world" models I was talking about, my experience has been that Stantons put out a little more voltage than most other cartridges. Individual models differ, as can individual samples -- cartridge output can even change with slight differences in stylus overhang for two reasons: moving magnet/iron position as well as plain old leverage.

Richard