IF transformer ATE-068

Jauk

Active Member
Hello. I need help finding the equivalent of an ATE-068 IF transformer to fix my Pioneer F93 tuner. I paid 70€ about two years ago for having it repaired by a service center. The technician told me it was some rare pioneer component not available anymore that he managed to fix by unsoldering and using some cleaning spray. After all this time I did not use it because I still haven't managed to get a decent FM antenna outside (have other priorities and time goes by too fast for these days...). So recently I connected it and it had exactly the same problem as before. I tried to follow the service manual (HiFiEngine site...) and long story short managed to find out the component the technician had referred to. I unsoldered it sprayed it heavily with kontakt cleaner and by stroke of luck also decided at the last minute to also unsolder a similar component (same part nr. but apparently with different function on the circuit) that I also spray cleaned. After that I resoldered both but exchanging their positions. I notice that following the service manual adjustments the part that didn't work now does so, but now the adjustment corresponding to the exchanged component doesn't, confirming the first component is to blame. Also the tuner now works! But the sound is a bit thin compared to the full warm and details sound it appeared to have before.
Anyway, the component is referred to in the service manual as ATE-068, which I found on this site:
https://www.ued.net/ued/viewItemAction.do?itemCode=PNRATE-068
They also refer to it as IF TRANSFORMER SXV90KU. That's how I knew it was an IF transformer, don't know much about that...

So, knowing that I still have one working inside the tuner, would it be possible to measure it and buy an equivalent ? It seems to be two coils (has two adjustment pots) inside a metallic case, which with care can be taken out. It does also seem to have another component inside besides the coils, maybe a capacitor.
A quick search seems to suggest measuring this thing is out of my reach but maybe some of you know.

BTW that part nr. seems to be long gone on the Pioneer catalog...:(
Thanks!
 
Hard to help you without diggin into the schematic. Suspect a IF transformer in one of the IF filter paths?
One way or the other a new (or repaired) ATE-068 sounds like it is required.
Do wonder how contact cleaner can be used to make it work again. I assume ATE-068 is a tuned tuned IF filter so it would have internal coil/transformer (ferrite or powered iron slug) and capacitor.
 
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@rcs16
Yes, I think that's it. And it seems each ATE-068 has two of them (two hex adjustments on top of each). I have no idea how contact cleaner can do any difference that's what I was told. In any case how would one even repair it ? I actually measured DC resistance on both before resoldering them back in and they both measured about the same between the various pins so I have so idea what's wrong with them (I thought one might have had the coil broken or the isolation melted, but in that case wouldn't the DC resistance be different ?
 
If I remember correctly, they are part of the FM detector/discriminator ICs circuits.

Are there any numbers on the sides of them besides any Pioneer numbers. Toko, Mura and others made these for various manufactures, but I do not know about this particular part.

Each section of each one is an adjustable tuned circuit containing the adjustable inductor and fixed value capacitor(s). I am testing my memory. The design of this circuit claims to improve adjacent channel FM stereo demodulation performance. This tuner has, again IIRC, automatic signal blend and IF bandwidth switching to improve the performance of the reception of less than perfect signals.

If the DC resistance is the same for each combination of pins for each device, it is possible that a capacitor has failed. How close were the resistance measurement from one to the other?

Are you using a non-metalic tool for the adjustment?

BTW, unless there was some type of unknown contamination inside those, there is not much that spray cleaning will do to help. There is not any type of adjustable sliding contact in those like there is in a poteniometer, it is not a pot is is an adjustable inductor.
 
From the service manual adjustments section, I see the "Detector VT adjustment" is made on three places: one of the sides of each ATE-068 and another transformer that's a different part. The other two sides of each ATE-068 are related to "mono distortion adjustment". BTW both coils on each have different number of pins, one 3 the other 2.
Yes there are other numbers, they have "229" bellow the Pioneer numbers. I'm not sure if there were others, if yes they're gone because of the spray, but I don't think so, it's probably just dirt remains....
I don't think this model has automatic blend and IF bandwidth switching, IIRC that might have been the F91, but I might be wrong. What this one has is a special selectable MPX filter and very good selectivity, so the F91 seems to have been audiophile oriented, while the F93 is DX oriented.
I didn't measure all pin combinations, just some random ones, honestly didn't knew which ones to test so I might have checked the wrong combinations. The combinations I measured and compared were very close but I don't remember the numbers.
I'm using a screwdriver. I've read about the ferrite damage risk but I'm careful. The thing is, the adjustment where the damaged part is, is measuring zero like an open circuit, I think even if the ferrite was damaged it still wouldn't measure zero.
Yes, I now understand the spray won't help, shows how clueless the technician was in the first place. To his credit he did manage to find the culprit though.
 
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Correction, the other numbers, besides the Pioneer ones, are "229" bellow the Pioneer numbers (I had written 226 on the replay above, which I also corrected).
 
Here is a section of the schematic. You can see that one of the inductors in each device has 3 connections and one has 2 connections. You would measure between all three for one (there should be continuity between all terminals) and between two for the other section of the device (there should be continuity between those two).

Of course the best thing is if you can find the part or a donor unit. You would have 2 chances for a good one in a donor unit.

I have seen the wires break at the pins and the connections at the capacitors due to flexing of circuit boards and the movement of the pins of devices like these.

And rarely I have seen the insulation on the wires in the coil breakdown, but usually only on units that have been stored in less than ideal conditions.
 
Even after you install a new IF transformer, you have to align it. A donor unit will at least be close to the correct frequency since it was aligned at one time.
 
For some reason, probably my error, the section of the schematic did not post, so here it is as referenced in my post above.

F-93 PIONEER.JPG
 
I did measure the three leg part and I think (although not 100% sure) there was continuity between all 3 leg combinations.
I've also found other models that have this part, namely the F-757 and F-656, which go cheaper on eBay. These models don't appear on a google search associated with that part nr., like the F-93 does, but that part appears on the parts list.
So there you have it. I'll hunt ebay for a cheap one and take it's guts out:)

But since it's from a different model is there any chance it will be way out of alignment or it's more or less the same ? Those models have only one of those BTW.
 
Great idea to find a doner part from a cheaper unit. Either that or dissect the part further to charterize it = more equipment. Should try to measure the inductance. The internal caps have been known to fail. I have heard of coils going open too.
I would think that your going to have to at least test the unit out with a tuned ckt change and probably do an alignment.
Since it is a detector(ratio), it has to be centered and adjust for the most linear spot (lowest THD) in the S curve
 
I haven't had this transformer a part. At least I don't remember have done. I have seen where the internal cap actually foil and with mica separators in the base of the coil. Spraying cleaner into the coil would mess that up by getting the cleaner between the foil (plate) and the mica (dielectric) . Never a good idea to spray cleaner into the coils or the tuning caps.
 
@Punker X
While I understand it's of no help I can't see why it would be harmful ? I mean contact cleaners like Deoxit or Kontakt (in Europe) are not conductive.
 
It changes the dielectric constant between the plates, thus changing the capacitance. This is not speculation. I've seen quite a few instances of this happening in real life.
 
@Punker X
In the cases you've seen this happening, were you still able to compensate by adjusting or it was out of scale (or unstable ?) ?
Thanks for sharing it BTW
 
No... Sometimes if luck you can take it apart and blow it out with compress air, or take it further apart and clean the alcohol, if the plates tarnish or corrode then it is near impossible. Since it looks like a cheap part units are available I would recommend that route.
 
Update :)
So I got a donor unit, different model as described above and some hours of fiddling around ended up finding out that the transformer is actually working! What happened was it was so out of adjustment that it was out of the mV scale on my DMM (digital multimeter), so the DMM was showing "0" followed by something else and I didn't notice that. Adjusting it did the trick but I'm now finding that it's a bit unstable. If I turn the unit on adjust it and let it on and come back half an hour later it will be showing different values. Is this normal ?
I still to get at least a signal generator to finish the alignment though and I'm not liking what I see on eBay...
Still, I think it would be a good investment if I find a decent cheap one. For example from my research a Panasonic VP8175A would not only allow me to adjust it but serve as a signal generator for my own small FM station :) But those are expensive and beaten up to sh*t most of the times!
 
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