Discussion in 'The Klipsch Korner' started by Drugolf, Nov 30, 2018.
What drivers, horns crossovers would you use?
I already got Bob Crites list.
I went with Volti upgrades package and I've never looked back.
If complexity isn't a problem then an active crossover will offer the most adjustment to fix room issues.
For passives I like Alk's ES crossovers over all of the other simpler designs that I've tried. Including type A, AA modified type A/AAs, either built by myself or by other botique and restoration builders.
I don't see anything offered at the Volti web site. Can you point me in a direction if there is one still?
Why not follow the footsteps of PWK himself and upgrade the Khorn?
Build the Jubilee bass bin. Easier build, plays higher (so you can cross it higher if you wish and that will open up many choices to use on the mids/highs.
Toss your balls to the wall and put the Klipsch K402 on it and.... how do I put this delicately ..... put yourself in another league above the Khorn.
Side note, passives are available but biamping w/electronic crossover would yield you the nigher 'nth' degree sound that PWK was after.
If you go your own tops, I'd at least go 2" throat....I think (other than the horn design itself) that is part of the magic (and HUGE scale of sound) of the K402 horn.
Yes, I've previously owned Khorns. Back when I first got the Jubilee's, a couple phrases I used (12 years ago) were "the Khorns can't mop the floor the Jubilee is sitting on" (or something like that) and the Jubilee crushes the Khorn...
Yeah, seems I offended some Khorn owners. Now that there are 50 owners instead of TWO (I was one of the first two buyers of the Jubilee in the 2-way format for the home)... the word seems to be getting out, especially about the (huge) K402 horn.
Yes, I've heard the Khorn side by side with the Jubilee. Same room, same electronics and the room was treated (this was actually at the Klipsch factory)...
Bottom line, the Khorn is a great speaker and built a great company..... but I'm not giving up my Khorn replacements!!!
Rumor I heard is when this design was completed and PWK heard if for the first time, he either sat back & smiled.... (evidently a nod of approval) or, he said "we did it" I'm not sure which or if both happened.
This is the link: http://www.klipschupgrades.com/khornupgrades3.shtml
IMHO, it's a bit expensive, but worth every penny.
Thanks. Yes, big bucks.
Drugolf, the Volti mods are what you heard on my Khorns. Let me know if you want another listen.
BOB probably knows best, But I would be looking at JBL drivers and horns and increasing the woofer horn length and mouth size to reach lower frequencies. The midrange also need redesigning for a more constant Q and to lower the crossover frequency to the woofer. Depending power requirements and desired output the system could be made two way.
I'll just talk to myself...
Something like 70/75 years ago, PWK designed the Khorn. He started it as a 2-way but because of limitations at the time (drivers, horns, crossover) he ended up having to take it to a 3-way.
50 years later, he revisited his dream..... which was to take the Khorn back to a 2-way speaker and, they did it.
So now you have a design created by PWK and his right hand man, Roy Delgado, taking his dream speaker back to his original goal of a 2-way system.
This has since been refined in their anechoic chamber....
No disrespect to Greg or anyone else, as I'm sure they have great ears.... I would personally probably hesitate putting their creations m in the same league as PWK's creations, but that might just be me.
How impressive is it that a speaker specifically designed to be put into someone's living room is bad azz enough to be put into their cinema lineup for a theater up to (if I recall) 300 seats!
If you decide to go with the more difficult to build Khorn I verses the improved sounding Khorn II (Jubilee), I'd still suggest that you consider going with 2" horns on top. The difference between those and the stock 1" horns is not insignificant. (and it has nothing to do with how loud they may go)
Amen brother Coytee amen.
I have wanted to do this now for quite some time. I was just talking to someone last week about possibly building a set of bass bins for me and was wondering if the jubilee build is too much or too complicated. He is obviously a competent woodworker and was willing to look at plans but I thought I would first look at a la scala bass bin. Maybe I should see what he thinks about the Jubilee.
There have been a couple handfuls of people building the Jubilee bass bin. As I understand it, they are all straight or angled cuts....none of them are compound angles (like in the much more complicated Khorn)
Given the simplicity of the build, I'm actually rather shocked that it took them 50 years to create/find it.
If you look into the Juiblee, I think the difficult part would be to find the two "K-31" or equivalent woofers (two for each cabinet). They won't just sell someone the drivers. If you find a trashed (forget the model number) I think it's KLF 30? (it's the KLF that I'm not sure about) but it uses two K31's per cabinet. Once you have the cabinet (if drivers are trashed) you can give the company your serial number to order some replacements (<--there's a hint in there)
This is essentially what it looks like on the inside. Your woodworker shouldn't have any issues.
Please pardon the possibly ignorant question -
What part of Khorn are you trying to emulate? If you change the size / shape / configuration of the cabinet itself, it's not a Khorn. If you change the drivers, crossovers, horns, etc., it's not a Khorn. I guess I'm asking just exactly what do you hope to end up with?
I will assume this is pointed to my original inquiry.
There is a lot of info out there about the Khorn since it has been around for decades and is still produced. Over those years the various OEM drivers have sorta stayed the same, but have evolved as well. So amongst all those iterations and generations I want to make sure we use the best of the bunch.
Right now there seems to be a few very specific options that seem to make sense to me. The newer Crites C-120 tweeter and the ALK crossover. Otherwise I think the original woofers options are fine and the mid horn options are not plentiful unless you really start changing things up with the horn itself etc. The cabinets will be per original design.
I agree, we are not trying to build something that will no longer be a Khorn.
I've read over the years about folks "upgrading" the stock Klipsch woofer (K33). I recall that most of the time, the person doing the 'upgrade' made a comment that the new driver didn't sound as good as the stock driver and they went back to the original driver.
So I think you're in a good spot sticking with either the K33 or Crite's replacement for it. If you go with his cast version, you will need to (slightly) modify the opening on some speakers (I think the LaScala) but don't know about the Khorn. If you stick with the stamped version, it will fit out of the box. I think the cast woofer is a bit thicker than stock so you need to widen the opening a bit to allow that extra width slither through.
Coytee, give me some examples of 2" horns for options.
If you are willing to go active crossover, I think you can use the Klipsch K510 inside the tophat and make the Khorn a 2-way speaker.
The larger K402 horn would probably look goofy on the Khorn bass bin but some have modified the brackets to at least make it 'interesting' (maybe only to horn lovers)
There are some other 2" horns out there, I'm not too familiar with them as my only experience is having the K402 (and a 510 on the side)
The main thing to know is the larger throat will dramatically lower distortion. You will be able to "crank it" (relative to your ears, the horn/driver will still be loafing) and since they're still loafing along and your ears are bleeding.... you will not really ascertain any distortion.
Remember, (and I do not mean to talk down to you or anyone else) it's not about volume.... yes, the 2" horns will stomp the 1" horns in volume. It's about the scale of the sound, even at lower volumes.
Too bad you aren't closer. Top of my head, I don't know of any Jubilee's in Idaho... wait.... is there a Hayden Idaho?? Might be a pair there. Once you hear the big horns, there's simply no going back.
I don't mean to put words in his mouth but I was with a group of people once, Mr. Bob Crites (yes, that Bob Crites) was part of the group. I think it was he who said (paraphrased) "Wow....once you hear these larger format horns, all the others (Khorns, LaScalas, Cornwalls) start to sound like toy speakers"
Nobody disagreed with him.
Fun. Hayden Idaho is way up north, closer to Spokane, just north of Coeur d'Alene. 7 hour drive
I just talked to Mr Crites yesterday. I could have asked him.
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