I'm done.

I got u tubed, they do sound very good and I do have to wonder if I’d even be able to hear the difference. The esr meter is a great suggestion and I’m looking at them now. Guess it doesn’t hurt to have one as much as I like to fool around anyway. I’ve read many a post on crossovers and the aged inductors do seem to drift sometimes way out of spec and since these 2 big ones are relatively easy I figured I’d try these and see if any difference can be heard, if not then I’d stop there and just go for a really good cleaning.

Thanks pauljh, I think I’m going to purchase 2 and see what happens. What gets me is there’s a company called Hammond that makes an almost identical looking units to the originals, I called I think it was Mouser yesterday and it was like talking Chinese to the 2 people that were on the phone, you sell them but nobody knows what the hell a 20mh speaker choke is. Sheeeesh fricking frustrating.

So here’s what 38 years of dust, dirt looks like,
62759855-E781-4A23-A542-D16D6EF1E7D3.jpeg 6CBD0582-EDD2-40E3-A544-9B6DE8CDC325.jpeg F372F8C8-F6D8-42FE-9C94-D818D932037D.jpeg
One thing for sure is after I pull these and spend the time cleaning them up, I’m going to make some sort of clear plexiglass cover to keep them clean after.
 
Yea, I hear you on wanting to rebuild the crossovers. I have read where the caps are probably out of spec because of their age.
I also wander, just like you probably are, if they sound this great with the old caps, they might even sound better with new caps.
But, when I sit down and do some serious listening to these 2.5`s, they sound so great to my ears, I am afraid that new caps will take away what Arnie`s people designed these to sound like.
So I am going to keep mine original for now. Looking forward to hear how yours turn out.
 
I purchased an Esr meter yesterday, if nothing else it'll be neat to see how things are holding up. Once I learn how to use it we'll post the numbers see what you guys think and go from there.

Jazz, the crossovers are open ended so a cover on the top I doubt will affect anything. If the crossovers are getting that hot I'm having way to much fun and in trouble already....LOL. That's one thing about the 4.5, you don't really need to get on these to make beautiful noise, they fill the room very easily. At least that's my opinion. The crown 2502 does a good job and gets plenty loud enough. I actually think we could go up a notch or two in the XLS line with these.

Also since yesterday didn't happen I'm going to pull the first crossover for cleaning so it'll be a few before they're up and running again.

Thermoluddys, man I'm with you there ! I don't want to change the sound that's for sure. From what I've read it's the yellow made in Mexico caps that are what does it and that will be a very tough call if they need replacing

But brother I'd be destroyed if anything blew in the 2.5's. I love, love, love them more than any previous infinity I've had period. We hear things the same way, and for us I doubt anything else could ever take their place, I don't care how much money I've got. Total honestly here, I'd part with the 4.5 before I'd let go of my 2.5's.
 
The new ESR meter arrived yesterday. Of course my curiosity got the best of me....ooh what can I measure ! So I have some Infinity RSe crossovers hanging around and start looking them over in pillage mode and there’s one Yellow Electro-Cap in each one, marked 8.5 / 100V.

I snip the leads and into the house we go excited to see how they measure up. These are going off a quick check coming up on 40 years old. I fire up the meter and attach the leads, well how about that ! They read 8.25-8.35 on the screen.

The meter manufacturer claims +/- 5% accuracy so those yellow caps are right where they should be ! Pretty Cool.
 
Welly, Welly, Well!

I have just returned from a day of spinning everything I brought through those 4.5s and I have to say.

Great Googly Moogly, I am smitten! They are bloody fantastic speakers!
They are extroardinarily capable of revealing all kinds of nuanced sounds in recordings that I know intimatly.. They handled everything I threw at them and then some.

The BASS! oh, the BASS! (as long as the recording HAS bass, see above) what do they sound like?

They sound like whichever recording I played on them.

I love them.

The only thing I'm NOT ready to do is admit they are better then my Ren 90s. They play louder, with no hint of effort until we max out the amplifier, then you can hear the amplifier straining... It never showed any clipping lights, but it sounded like it was being driven beyond its limits, but the speakers themselves nope. There is a sound when an EMIT or an EMIM (or an array of both) is driven beyond its comfort zone, I can't describe it, but anyone with Infinity speakers knows of what I speak. I never heard that.

I'm going to have to bring my rens over and compare the two speakers after I db match them. I'll be honest, I'm hoping my rens will inch out a slightly cleaner/more accurate sound, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Napalm for breakfast; of the apocalypse now soundtrack.. those last few minutes, from 2:18 on, were STUNNING I don't know that I've ever heard the Beam sound so good going so low before.(the track dips down into the teens basswise on the last two minutes) On 90% of the speakers I've played that on, they either just sound like the sound is decaying and fading out after the first strike at 2:18, or the woofers bottom out and go BLORT. The 4.5's reproduced the beam at LOUD levels as well as I've ever heard it. My Ren's do a great job, especially backed up by my killer subs, but won't play nearly as loud as the 4.5 does. they just don't. I heard every strike, and as you know if you know this recording, the bass is only beginning at 2:18, it gets lower and louder and lower and louder until the track finally ends, or your speakers blow, or your amp blows. The 4.5 without any subwoofer assistence did it all. those dual watkins 12's in each are stunning.

Neil Youngs voice sounded perfect, whether it was rock and roll neil young, electroniclly processed neil young, or acoustic neil young. PERFECT!
Tom Waits has a very distinct voice that is in a frequency that is almost always spanning multiple drivers and crossovers, and has enough 'gravel' in it to really make speakers sound bad. Either speakers over do the 'chestiness' or the gravel, but on the 4.5. it was Tom Waits. bloody fantastic.

the zep remastered Physical Graffitti was stunning, ten years gone and In My Time of Dying were f*cking stunning, both pages slide guitar, plants voice, bonhoms drums, and even (another first for me) Pages voice during one of the big guitar crescendos on ten years gone(I think) that I can say I've never heard before, sounds like he's grunting or something.


The Church; Magician among the Spirits from Magician among the Spirits was sublime, divine, perfect! all the bass, and there's a plethora of bass was there, palpibly, cleanly, and accurately. when he walks over to the piano at the end of the song, it sounded like someone was walking across a wood floor to a piano, not exaggerated, not muted, just... accurate.

Seriously.


Amazing speakers.

I want a pair.

I do not know if I've ever heard music reproduced so correctly before. All my previous 'Best' speakers I would have to A/B them with the 4.5 to see which is better, and that's saying a whole lot.

The room they are in needs audio treatment, it's too resonant, too alive, and has too many parallel surfaces. Can't wait to hear them after he's treated the room.

Oh yeah, the condition of the speakers was as good as I've ever seen. the EMIMS and EMITS were as near pristine as I've ever seen. the wood looked flawless. Honestly they looked like they've been in their boxes for thirty years. GREAT condition.

Thanks 7.62!

now I gotta figure out how to get me a pair. anyone in need of a heavily abused kidney, or a testicle?
 
As always it was a treat to spend the afternoon with you Jazz. I very much enjoyed the music and Mostly that look of surprise on your face, that ear to ear grin seeing that Oh Shit moment or two :D !

Room treatment just went straight to the top of the to do list so we can bring the Ren’s over and compare, honestly I don’t think they stand a chance :p.

Thanks for making the trip over it was a lot of Fun Today.
 
Don't abuse the volume control, 95 db tops on peaks, the emims don't like anymore than that, no matter how good they are, you'll get a rim edge distortion where mylar is glued to plastic frame, You can't hurt the bass drivers, their dynamite, best you will ever get :)
 
we DEFINITELY exceeded 95 db peaks. I shoulda taken photographs of the emims and emits before and after. Next time I'm over I'll do so.

Those Watkins were MOVING an incredible amount, especially on napalm for breakfast, I'm talking not quite as far, but nearly as far as my JL audio Fathom does when I play Napalm on it. it was stunning, and not a little nervewracking. I hovered over the mute button for the biggest strikes on the beam.The amp ran out of steam before those woofers did, and every wall in that house was vibrating, not just the windows, the walls themselves.

Now that I know how well they rock, next time I'll be listening at lower levels and to more delicate music. I never did get to play my infamous liszt recording. (infamous because it still is simply the best recording of a grand piano I've ever heard, and I've played it on every one of my top speakers I've owned, or just lusted after since oh, 1986 when I bought it.) I simply forgot to add it into the usb stick I had all the wav albums on.

I took that recording with me to the massive Wisdom set up in the Clark County Library during CES in 2002, and, to my ears, the music that was played before AND after me, that array just didn't sound... 'right' (as many reviewers noted at the time) but I tell you what, I played that recording of Liszt's hungarian rhapsody 2 and 6(I think) and I'll be damned if a piano didn't acoustically appear dead center on that stage. I mean it WAS a piano, you just couldn't see the damn thing. everything from the p and pp to fff it was correct. it's one of my main reference recordings to suss out crossovers and driver transitions, because they become glaringly obvious to my ears.

Live at Pompeii, my own 'rip' from the original dvd release years and years before Pink Floyd did an 'official' release sounded amazing, you could 'see' that amphitheater they recorded that show in. It was spooky headphone good, with really beautiful melodic and powerful bass and percussion, not to mention Gilmores guitar....

Primus really boogied on 'eternal consumption engine' every instrument was clear and distinct from each other instrument, and it sounded like they were all there in the room...

The only bummer was I accidently turned my main gain down without noticing it, and when I played Roy Buchanan's cover of Leonard Cohen's Story of Isaac, with Charlie Daniels singing it wasn't quite as loud and impactfull as I wanted... (doh! I never claimed to be smart) Didn't notice that was the 'problem til we were rocking out to Lou Reed singing Busload of Faith, totally felt stupid. I mean, I could hear the lack of db (worried something had been damaged) but couldn't figure out why.... I'm a dumbass.

OH, and I played Laurie Andersons 'O Superman' because it's got such interesting and delicate parts, and the bass synthesizer creeps up on you and all of a sudden it takes this weird dark emotional turn.. and the zen or koan of the "hah hah hah hah hah hah" sequencer that plays all the way through the song is really cool. you sort of fall into a trance state if you let the song take you.

and I'll let @7.62 chime in with his impression of Lateralus from Lateralus, by tool. I was completely blown away by it, I think he was too.

ok, quick rundown of hardware

Crown amplifier (I'll edit the correct model in later)
shen something tube preamp(I'll edit the correct model in later
Lenovo laptop running debian linux sending the wavs via usb to
HiFimeDIY UAE23 USB DAC (ESS Sabre ES9023+Savitech SA9023)

really mondo upc power cords, they were huuge!
dunno what the 1/8 (3.5mm) to rca cord was, it was also very nice.
the passive crossover on the 4.5 was used, not the active electric crossover that also comes with the speaker.
yeah, it was damn fun.
 
We did get into the danger zone for sure, I agree we should keep things at a more reasonable level I’ve never pushed them like we did yesterday. I don’t think the Ren 90’s would have survived. There’s definitely a sweet spot in the volume and we hit it yesterday a few times, that 10 minute jam I’ve never heard was AWESOME !

Tool was incredible as was most everything, ole Jazz and I were up on our feet a few times :banana:.

Zeppelin was a bit hot and I forget which song it was where the emits were also way bright that that’s were the quality of the recording comes into play, the 4.5 is ruthlessly revealing.

We both agree that the room is not friendly with way to much reflection but yesterday was a trial run, we moved the speakers out from the walls, I did a quickie setup for us moving the bed out of the room, setting up 2 chairs with a small table in the center of the room and blanket thrown on the floor to help but I have nothing on the walls.

That will be first priority over the next few weeks. Going to build some traps and try and calm things down. I forget who it is that posted some great stuff on room reflections and building bass traps, maybe Ken Boyd, Tedrick but I’ll be diving into the search function.

Basically the components are,

Xiang sheng 728A Preamp
Crown XLS 2502
And jazzes laptop.
Power cords are from Amazon, think they’re 10 gauge but hey they look nice and the interconnectes are SKW also from Amazon.

Next round I’ll have things changed a bit, I’ve got to install the PS Audio wall socket on that wall and I’ll have the symphonies preamp ready to go. I want you to hear this with the Gold lion tubes.

So the phrase “I’m Done” Jazz agrees, even with these lowly components it’s really about finding Quality music now.

And dammit if I didn’t mention it, yesterday was just outstanding. I really, really enjoyed the day :beerchug:.

And InAp thanks for that advice, I just pulled the front grills and were ok, no discoloring or otherwise so we made it through unscathed !
 
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Not trying to hijack tread but I am a new 2.5 owner. What have y'all found was the best placement. The spot I am hoping to put them in would have them located about 3 feet from one side wall and open space to the side of other speaker. They could be a max of 3 feet from front wall and 7 to 9 feet apart. I also need to order some foam to replace on panel around speakers. I was thinking about 1 inch thick.
 
My woofers never move, not even on the cannon shots of the digital version of the 1812, vibrate is all they do with frequency, That crown amp is not good enuf, you need a krell threshold or other class a amp that doubles at least to 2 ohms, THESE speakers MUST be bi-amped to get the best out of them, I do like the Infinity active xo that came with mine new, I use the 110hz xo point on the unit and adjust low pass and high pass gain to get an even eq'd output to the amps. I've used crown active's and DR 260 and 482 and BR dcx2496 as well, the latter 3 have built in EQ as well. These speakers when EQ'd flat are the best Iv'e ever heard AND I've heard a lot, and I own a lot and reference them side by side, and they always prevail when it come's to imaging and bass, IMHO !!!

Al
 
You've also never played 'Napalm for Breakfast' on them.:eek2:

youtube doesn't do that cut justice, trust me. the cannon shots on 1812 are small potatoes in comparison.
 
I’ve read just about every post you’ve written InAp and have deep respect for your knowledge ! But I have to disagree on the Crown. I believe it has plenty of power for a single amp pushing the 4.5’s to reasonable levels. I would love to spend some time with you listening / seeing your setup.

I don’t disagree with you about the higher end amps or bi-amping, I have one of the original electronic crossover boxes and have yet to employ it.

Keep it coming InAp cause I have to share this with one of my boys ;) if you know what I mean. Any chance I could see some pics of your system. I’ll send you my email if you don’t want to post here.
 
I just have to add this. Got home last night and played some Tin Pan Alley from S.R.V. thru my 2.5`S with hi high current amp, I melted into the recliner, I can`t "verbalize" what it sounded like. "Awesome" ! "Magical" is more like it.
7.62, you know what i`m saying?
 
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