Some excellent points PQ. Mind if I add a few more?
How about the vocalists that cup the microphone in their hand and step on and lean into monitors 'cause that's the way it's done in videos, than look at the soundman like he's an idiot cause he can't fix the feedback.
Or the drummer that unloads cases of toms on the stage and after he's done cleaning the clutter and spent an hour "tuning" his set you realize all his toms are tuned the same.
Worse than the guitar player who cranks to get his tone is the one who plays it cranked clean, and to bass players who can't hear themselves cause they're standing right next to their amp: 'your legs don't have ears'.
BTW, I've also seen a few "Pros" that can't run sound:
If the band and the soundman are wearing ear plugs you're probably too loud.
If you;re playing for a 120 patrons and your drums and 100 watt marshall amp are mic'd you're too damn loud.
If the barmaid has to learn sign language and to read lips you're too damn #$%*! loud!
One of my favorite experiences was seeing a band for the first time with a musician friend of mine.
The drummer shows up with a tiny kit, the guitar player rolls in with a Marshall half stack, the PA was just a pair of monitors set on the floor leaning against the back wall, lead vocalist running the soundboard.
We looked at each other not knowing what to expect and obviously dreading the worst.
The setup took less than 15 minutes, no real sound check. Broke into Led Zep's 'Good Times, Bad Times' and honestly it was the most perfect mix I'd ever heard live.
Points/remarks well made.
Lots of body language that goes on between the sound man and the group...and not all good at times either.
Then if you take into account a really bad room/aud to play in...that just creates more probs that not all soundmen can handle taking into consideration some of the points that valve pointed out by his obvious personal experience in his post.
I've been playing with the idea of getting into the game as a soundman as I've always been around groups one way or another...but never in one. Having second or maybe third thoughts on it at this point.
Q
Learning to be a “sound man” generally requires either an education in audio engineering or finding someone willing to teach you the craft.
If you learn by trial and error it is going to be an unpleasant experience for both you and the musicians on stage.(not to mention the audience)
Some community collages offer classes,churches also are a good place to volunteer & learn.
Working for a sound company & paying your dues is another.
Fortunately there is a lot of information online to teach you the basics but that will only take you so far.
Like most professions you have to put in you 10,000 hours and 10 years before you have the hands on experience nessary to master the craft. As the technology constantly changes you never really stop learning.
Working with todays digital boards & line arrays require computer skills and the line between “Live” and the “Studio" are blurring as artist try to recreate live what is on their recordings using digital technology.
Don’t let the negative comments and experiences discourage you.
As you learn the craft the better you get and the better the musicians will be that you work with.
Mixing sound on todays state of the art systems & working with talented and professional musicians can be a true joy.
One doesn’t often have the problems posted here if you work with pros. But then pros don’t trust their sound to just anyone.
If it is something you really want to do I say “Go for it!”
Here a few links to check out!
Cheers
PQ
https://online.berklee.edu/courses/live-sound-mixing-and-recording#!syllabus
https://online.berklee.edu/courses/live-sound-mixing-and-recording
In a word no!Well stated, detailed and informative.
The soundman admits that he is trying your mention of the "trial and error" method, but puts part of the blame on the board itself. He did say that there is a new soundboard coming in that may rectify some of the sound that is being produced.
So, based on what you have shared, are the new(er) soundboards more open to the inexperienced and can make up for the lack of experience that a person may have?
Thanks to date for your contributions and the others on board as well. I'm here to learn as I'm sure others are as well.
Q
Hi Q,Again thanks for your experience and sharing a knowledge base in this area of sound.
IF, a person could be brought in with a good background in setting up... when the new board comes in could the device be left as is when properly set?
Pretty well the same players set up each Sunday, and they don't change positions much unless a play or such is to be arranged but that doesn't happen too often.
I might add that the room is quite bright as the ceilings are quite high and there is nothing on the walls to diffuse the sound. This must also cause problems as the sound must really bounce around in this environment.
Q
I think you have something here as occasionally I hear some of them, and there can be as many as 8 or 9 up on the stage giving some one another jives, but if SEEMS in fun Maybe not?Another interesting exercise is to have the group play, turn off the sound system, and go stand in front of them and listen. Then go stand where the audience sits and listen. If it doesn't sound good up close, the musicians need to listen to each other and give the sound man a fighting chance. Percussion is often a challenge. Now, vocalists will have a little challenge coming out on top of a full band, but the musical arrangement and the (eventual) EQ can create a "hole" or space for them to sit in the mix. (Not the room EQ, but the EQ applied as part of the mix.) Microphone choice can give you a good head start on this.
Chip
Sound boards and how they are set up have always been a mystery for me.
At the different venues/performances I've been to I've gotten to know that a soundman has to take a lot of variables into account in order to bring about the best outta the different situations. The environment factors in, the type of equipment, the sort of music played, instruments themselves, the different wants of the players, the mikes used and probably the audience as well.
To a point I can tell if the music controller is experienced if the vocals are muffled some often or one player in the band is overwhelming the rest of the performers. Some bands seem really fussy about how the set has been made.
In starting this thread I was hoping to better understand how boards are set up, and if most of the times some of the settings are meant to highlight certain instruments or is it just left to the individual board guy to deal with what he/she can. I'll bet that the highliner often gets special treatment/consideration.
Q
Sound boards and how they are set up have always been a mystery for me.
At the different venues/performances I've been to I've gotten to know that a soundman has to take a lot of variables into account in order to bring about the best outta the different situations. The environment factors in, the type of equipment, the sort of music played, instruments themselves, the different wants of the players, the mikes used and probably the audience as well.
To a point I can tell if the music controller is experienced if the vocals are muffled some often or one player in the band is overwhelming the rest of the performers. Some bands seem really fussy about how the set has been made.
In starting this thread I was hoping to better understand how boards are set up, and if most of the times some of the settings are meant to highlight certain instruments or is it just left to the individual board guy to deal with what he/she can. I'll bet that the highliner often gets special treatment/consideration.
Q
The most important part of setting up a soundboard, similarly to EQ's, is to make sure the sliders create a cool optical design. To hell with what it sounds like!
Thanks Haj! Now gotta change my coffee stained shirt!
Q