Infinity Kappa 8, Need advice

SansuiFlorida

SansuiFlorida

Active Member
I normally hang out on the Sansui Forum. I've been looking at upgrading my speakers. Someone local has a pair of Kappa 8s in excellent condition. The only thing is the woofers were replaced by a high end local audio shop with a higher quality woofer. "what they said" was an upgraded woofer, Lexon. They want $600 for em. I know these things would be expensive to ship if bought on ebay. I'll be driving them with a Sansui CA 3000 and BA 3000. I would probably Bi amp with two BA 3000s.

Appreciate anyone's recommendation about should I go for these speakers. I have zero experience with Infinity speakers.

Thanks
Mike
 
Mike,
I personaly would pass. First off, as we all know a loudspeaker is a balanced instrument. Folks, replacing parts with so called better parts nine times out of ten have no clue as to why they even think that it is a 'better' part. Kappa 8's are vintage loudspeakers from 1987 to 1989. It has a particular sound. It was designed as a system. I would pass on these. Others may feel differently of course.

If you want some nice original equipment Kappas, they will not be difficult to find on Ebay for example. Browse these pages for more information on Kappa's if you are interested: http://www.infinity-classics.de/infinity/models/Kappa-series-1987/index-Kappa.htm

Vito
 
Hi Mike,

$600 for a pair of modified Kappa 8's.
I would say no :no: .

If they had the original drivers, I think $600 is still high.
You live in the US, you are lucky that there are PLENTY of quality speakers for you to choose from.
Keep an eye out, and I am sure you can do better for $600. (even if you had to pay shipping from another state)

I have a pair of Kappa 7's...... they are great!!
a pair of Kappa 8's or 9's are on my "to buy" list.

Happy Hunting!! :thmbsp:
Mark
 
Hmmm... "replaced"??? Now, what does that mean, exactly?

Here's the real problem: the infamous Infinity Kappa woofers go down to 2 ohms. The crossover is designed to work with that. The board that the woofer is attached to has been designed with the cabinet to avoid resonances with the Infinity woofer in place, and the size of enclosure was designed for the Infinity woofer, and not for the "better" one.

When the "better" woofer was put in, was any of this taken into account? I would doubt that. It's not impossible that these would sound ok, but the smart money would be against it. The woofers appear quite often on eBay. Find out what you can buy a pair for, and subtract from the usual value of apair of K8s, then subtract a few more $ for potential damage to the crossovers. My guess is that will be less than $600.
 
Vito, Mark, Negotiable Terms,

Thanks for the info and giving me some sound advice before I buy on impulse or do something stupid like buying without doing my homework.
The gentlemen selling is a former audio dealer during the 70's and 80's and really knows speakers.The shop that replaced the woofers supposedly replaced the woofer with ones that matched the specs of the orginal. I understand that could mean many different things.

I'll probably go look at them and get a better feel for the future.

Thanks Again for the info and sound advice!

Mike
 
SansuiForida
From the replies I've read here so far I think the obvious has been overlooked. While I agree with all others that non original woofers will likely change the sound, that would be your least concern. I would think your amp would have trouble driveing these speakers as they do and will dip into the 2 ohm and below load as Negotiableterms has mentioned. If you think your amp is capable and if you are convinced that the replacement woofers were (are) exact replacements. Then I say bring your amp and give them a try before you buy and let your ears be the judge. Personally I think $600 is a fine price for a pair of Kappa 8s in good shape. :yes:

Good luck
 
Hail,
I do not think that we overlooked the obvious at all. It was stated that they would be bi-amped by two Sansui B-3000's. That being said, since we know that those are great power amplfiers that they are equal to the load, why would we caution that they may not be.

Sansui's "Definition Series" BA-3000 power amp amplifier
-Separate level controls for each channel

-Triple protection circuit
- Heat sink is 190 square inches
-Torodial transformer for less magnetic noise coupling and highly
concentrated magnetic fields for less heat and improved power
regulation over standard transformers.
-Two huge filter capacitors of 22,000 mfd each for tremendous headroom
-170 watts per channel RMS into 8 ohms.

Vito
 
coman61 said:
SansuiForida
From the replies I've read here so far I think the obvious has been overlooked. While I agree with all others that non original woofers will likely change the sound, that would be your least concern. I would think your amp would have trouble driveing these speakers as they do and will dip into the 2 ohm and below load as Negotiableterms has mentioned. If you think your amp is capable and if you are convinced that the replacement woofers were (are) exact replacements. Then I say bring your amp and give them a try before you buy and let your ears be the judge. Personally I think $600 is a fine price for a pair of Kappa 8s in good shape. :yes:

Good luck
Click to expand...

Hey there Coman61,

What you say is good stuff. It is ultimately up to the buyer to make the final decision, and alternate viewpoints are always good. Keep posting your thoughts :thmbsp:

The unknown factor in this case though is what those woofers actually are. From the description in the original post which said "The only thing is the woofers were replaced by a high end local audio shop with a higher quality woofer. "what they said" was an upgraded woofer, Lexon". It is evident these are not exact replacement drivers. They most likely do not emulate the real Infinity drivers in dipping into the low 2 Ohms either.

I share the others feelings though about having original components in a vintage speaker. If you're ok with Frankenspeakers , may as well be making your own from the ground up, where there is probably more control to design around the drivers instead of vice versa.

Anyway, we'll have to wait to hear what the Sansui dude does and what he finds when he checks them out.
 
-Triple protection circuit
- Heat sink is 190 square inches
-Torodial transformer for less magnetic noise coupling and highly
concentrated magnetic fields for less heat and improved power
regulation over standard transformers.
-Two huge filter capacitors of 22,000 mfd each for tremendous headroom
-170 watts per channel RMS into 8 ohms.

Vito
I admire your respect for these amplifiers but I question your experence with Infinity Kappa 8 speakers.
I'am not trying to be a wise guy here but I have personally owned Kappa 8s and 9s. They are a great speaker but they are also known as amp killers. If you don't believe me check http://www.audioreview.com/reviewscrx.aspx. These a real reviews by real poeple who own these speakers. The Kappa 8 is a much easier load then the Kappa 9 but it is still its little brother and still presents a tough load for most older amplifers. I am not real familiar with the Sansui B 3000 but here is what I found out before I posted a caution about driveing these speakers.http://www.randallareed.com/sansui_ba_3000_power_amplifier.htm
I know this is not a factory spec sheet but I see mention of this amps ratings at 4 ohms much less 2 ohm or less. Oh sure he says it can do 600 watts in short bursts but most any amp can.
We just had a disscution on these speakers with another member who was Bi Amping these speakers with 2 Pioneer 1250 sx.with little success. Do you really think these Sansui's are that much more powerful then the poineers? I don't think so. For 1 thing the Pioneer is factory rated stable at 4 Ohms.
FWIW Its not actully the woofer that dips into the low impedance of 2 ohms its the crossover. As the audio frequency changes it effects the crossover circuit. These circuit consist of cap and coils. These are Hi pass and Low pass filters somtimes called tank circuits. All tank circuits have whats called a resonante frequency. At this freq.there is zero resistance, this is why all speakers have a changing impedance, some are just tougher loads then others.
Sorry for being so long winded but I just wanted you all to know that this speaker needs serious amplifier consideration. I have been playing with big Kappas for 4 years now and have wasted a ton of money on amps that just will not get the job done with these speakers. I just wish someone would have told me about this so I would not have had to go to the school of hard knocks. :no:
Also I know my spelling sux and it might make look as tho I don't know what I'm talking about. Its up to you decide. I'm just passing on my experence with thse bad boys
 
coman61 said:
SansuiForida
From the replies I've read here so far I think the obvious has been overlooked.
Click to expand...

coman61,
You framed your contribution to this thread by indicating that all of us that contributed before you arrived, overlooked the obvious. If you enter a conversation, albeit virtual, by acting as the saviour to the thread at the expense of the other posters having their wits about them, you may pick up a rebuttal such as mine.

I take care to never contradict another on this website nor besmirch another's opinion. I am and was not contradicting yours. I was responding to how you framed your contribution. Also, you can question my experience, as you stated, all that you want. Before questioning someone's experience in a public forum however, you may want to check up on some of the person's posts, the equipment that they have, and what they have demonstrated that they know.

I do not expect a reply, nor encourage one. I simply respond to your post to me to restate that was not am not contradicting you or your opinion, just responding to the style of your delivery.
Vito
 
Last edited:
Let's remain on topic, please? Take all other discussion to PMs. The point that the 8s are difficult loads has been made.

Besides, I had Kappa 8s and 9s, stacked, and had no trouble driving them to the max with my Yorx receiver-cassette combo. :D
 
Thanks to everyone's for your advice. I'm scheduled to go and check the speakers out on Monday afternoon. I'll let everyone know what I find.

Have a great labor day weekend!
Mike
 
SansuiFlorida,
Have fun. You have a great Labour Day Weekend too. I will be in the mountains of New Hampshire without PC access, so I am looking forward to hearing as to how you made out when I eturn.
Vito
 
I have a set of Kappa 8's that I bought new.I compared them to Polk,Kef and others that the stores had in the showrooms at the time and liked them better.I am running them now with a Denon PMA2000 and have not had a problem with the impedence. I suspect that is volume related and I usually run at about 1/4 to 1/3 volume. I think you could get a better price .Don't think I paid much over $800 for them new.
 
mine were $250 and had a bad mid-bass (common). took about a year, but I found a replacement driver for $40. I think $600 is high even for good condition orig. drivers. Offer (much) less, point to this forum if need be and scrounge for the watkins woofs.
 
Update

I went over to the guy's house today with the Kappa 8s and checked out the speakers. My findings;

1. They are in excellent physical condition, one owner, non smoking environment. I saw only one very small nick on one side of the speakers.

2. The replacement speaker looked like a high quality woofer and sounded qood. All I know is it was installed by a high end audio dealer in town but no paper work. I don't have any reason to doubt the individual as I have known him for awhile and I know the dealer that did the work.

3. He didn't have a very powerful amp or receiver for the listening test. We played several CDs including one I brought. The speakers sounded pretty good. Alot more open sound than I'm use to with the Sansui SP 3000s I use.

4. I discussed price and recommendations by everyone on this discussion forum and he dropped price down to $500.

5. I'm going back tomorrow and bring my Sansui BA 3000 and CA 3000 and give a test with the type of system I'll be using. I'll be able to apply some power.

6. I briefed my wife and got the green light from her so this could get serious quickly.

Appreciate any more comments at this stage.

Thanks
Mike
 
Coman61,

I put the outcome back in the InFinity Forum before I knew it had been moved here. I'll keep looking.

Thanks for the interest, they are really nice speakers!
Mike
 
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