Infinity QRS - Inspired Building These Speakers

Next Comes the Carver Amazing Loudspeakers

Next in the evolutionary line comes the Bob Carver Amazing Loudspeaker Line.
The Amazing (2 x 30" ribbons) , the ALS-III (Amazing Loud Speaker - 1 x 48" ribbon) , the ALS-IIIb (1 x 48" ribbon), the Silver (1 x 48" ribbon) and eventually the Platinum (1 x 60" ribbon).
They are all modeled after the Strathern design and are desendants of the QRS-1D's.
Bob was driven by the Apogee design to provide a simplier, less costly design that provided 85% of the impact at 25% of the cost.
In my opinion his AMAZING LOUD SPEAKER (ALS) line did exaclty that, and to this day many people often confuse them with Apogee speakers because to the untrained eye they look very similar.

Also please go to this site to learn more about this great speaker design.

http://www.carveraudio.com/default2.htm

http://www.carveraudio.com/CarverInfo/sp.html

http://www.carveraudio.com/phpBB2/index.php

Note: His 60 inch ribbon (Quasi-ribbon) design is so good thet Arnie Nudell used it himself in his top of the line $165,000 Genesis Loudspeaker.

So this brings us to the fact that both the Carver line and the Genesis Line are desendants of the Strathern Ribbon and part of the QRS 1-D legacy.
 

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Bohlenger - Graebner finally arrives at the same design

Please note that I skipped a few other designs and manufacturers that also evolved from the Infinity QRS 1D Hybrid Design.

I will also try to add them in.

These incude but are not necessary limited to the:

Eminent technology LFT planar magnetic hybrid speakers:

LFT-VI
The Eminent Technology LFT-VI is a full-range, push-pull, dynamic planar loudspeaker. In a sense, it is the magnetic equivalent of a push-pull electrostatic loudspeaker, differing in that it requires no step-up transformer or bias voltage, and that the audio signal is applied directly to its diaphragm.

LFT-VIII
The Eminent Technology LFT-VIIIa is a hybrid, with push-pull, dynamic planar loudspeaker elements for the midrange and tweeter and a conventional cone loudspeaker for bass. The planar section is in a sense, the magnetic equivalent of a push-pull electrostatic loudspeaker, differing in that it requires no step-up transformer or bias voltage, and that the audio signal is applied directly to its diaphragm.

For more on these speakers go to their site:
http://www.eminent-tech.com/main.html


The Sonogistix / Level 9 / Monsoon Designs
(more on them later)

and:

Analysis Audio also now makes a line of ribbon speakers in Greece of all places that look just like the Apogees.
Follow this link to them if you would like to know more:
http://www.analysisaudiousa.com/

Eventuually the evolution leads us to the:

Bohlender Graebener Ribbon (pseudo-ribbon) redesign of the Carver Ribbon speakers.
My understanding is Bob Carver actually helped design these.
These are readily available to hobists like myself and also you.

Arnie Nudell left Genesis recently but Genesis continues to foster his designs. Recently they also changed from using the 60 inch Carver Platinum Ribbon to the 75 inch BG RD 75 ribbon (as the 60 inch Carver is no longer being manufactured).

The RD series of BG Ribbon loudspeaker drivers offer the systems designer the advantages of a thin-film, line-source transducer with very high performance potential for fixed installation sound reproduction. Unlike most exotic driver types, the RD series models feature unmatched bandwidth, power handling and ruggedness, as well as the ease of an almost entirely resistive load to the amplifier. All models in the RD Series feature linear, push-pull Ceramic 8 motors linearly driving a polyester diaphragm whose moving mass is actually less than the air load. The bandwidth of the RD Series drivers is extraordinarily large, and is usable from as low as 150Hz to beyond audibility. Program power handling of the RD75 driver is 200 watts. The diaphragm is protected within a chassis made of three layers of heavy gauge, self-reinforced steel. Specifications: *Power Handling: 100 watts RMS/400 watts max *Nominal Impedance: 6 ohms *Re: 6.0 ohms *Frequency range: 150-18,500 Hz *SPL: 88 dB 1W/1m *Net weight: 35.5 lbs. *Dimensions: 75-5/8" L x 4-11/16" W x 1-1/2" D.

Come on you guys.
Help me out.
I know there are some of you out there that can fill in some of the blanks and make this thread even more comprehensive.
 

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That Audio Concepts design definitely looks like the direct antecedent to Brian Cheney's latest offering of the VMPS V60. I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case as Cheney does seem to have been strongly influenced by the better Infinity designs and even used their drivers in his earlier models.

Regarding the Carver speakers, I believe Carver did release his own model that was again similar to your Audio Concepts QRS-1D in appearance with his own planar-magnetic driver long before the Amazing and ALSIII. There was a gent I ran across a few years ago who was restoring one of these rare pairs. The diaphragms were torn and outside of being Mylar vs. Kapton, could be directly replaced by diaphragms made for the BG RD60s. Now, I believe that the cooperation with Graebener happened before the Amazings and that those drivers were already BGs. Interestingly, while looking through the patents yesterday, I see that Bob Carver had patented his driver with James Croft and that it was Croft who later joined forces with David Graebener to design the variants and advance the designs. Is Croft the real designer behind the drivers themselves, though?

As to the Eminent Technology drivers in Thigpen's speakers, the driver design is slightly different. The magnet arrangement, Ceramic 8 type hence the much lower efficiency of the fullrange models such as VIs, was set such that the back magnets aligned with the gap between the front magnet rows for a transverse magnetic field. This approach is described and claimed in Norman McKay's US patent #3939312 from back in 1976 if you're interested. Outside of the speakers having an efficiency of ~81dB at 2.83V, I can't help but wonder if the linearity is harmed due to the angled magnet field compared to the perpendicular field found in the drivers with the magnets aligned.

Now, about Apogee Acoustics and Jason Bloom, I had a few hours to spare yesterday, so I dug through the patents to make sure my information was correct. The results are too lengthy for me to care to type out, but basically, I do not believe we have the truth here. Frankly, Jason Bloom's name doesn't even appear on the Apogee patents, none of those that I found. The names on the early patents were Leo Spiegel, Gary Walker, Anthony Shuman, and James Kirtley. Speigel appears to be the brains behind the design as his name shows up on all the patents and is only listed with Mark Nazar in the last Apogee patents put out.

That said, the patents aren't for any particular driver technology, but for the overall speaker design. That is, the patents, such as for the original Full Range, just the arrangement of the drivers and driver types. I was curious as to whether there was any innovation there, so I dug through the patents and found dozens beforehand that describe the technology used in the Apogee speakers, many were from the early to mid '70s and were definitely valid when the design described within started showing up in the Apogees. Blatthaler, Orthophase, Jim Winey of Magnepan, Oskar Heil, Takamitsu Asahi, Norman McKay, and on and on had already patented the designs.

Now, I can say that reading through these patents, it's obvious that the same basic principle is at work and the patents sometimes represent only very slight variants on a theme. In addition to several with ridiculously extravagant or fudged claims (such as a 3" EMIT like transducer claiming flat performance from 20Hz to 50kHz), I even found a couple I'm sure simply won't work to make any coherent sound. However, I couldn't find any that were so far along from the Apogee folks. If anything, I noticed that their first patent seemed to intentionally avoid describing in their references the regularly cited patents for the approach that happened to have already described the technology they were patenting and listed several that were barely related. I hate to say it, but it sure did seem to me that they might have been intentionally copying other's designs.

This might have relevance to the eventual demise of the company. Unfortunately, I can't remember the court case number, but Jim Winey evidently took Bloom to court over violating his patent describing his way of useing dots of glue on his true ribbon tweeters to improve performance as described in US Patent #4319096. If you take a look at this, you'll see that the ribbon design sure is similar to that in Apogee's late '80s models that followed Winey's early to mid '80s models that implemented this design. Supposedly, this issue was settled out of court, but that it severely harmed the company both financially and possibly from disallowing them from continuing to use the design.

Now, I understand Apogees are great speakers and all, but the constant claims of them being alone in this approach or even innovators needs to be checked. It's disturbing to see owners proudly proclaim their speakers to be the original planar-magnetic designs. It does also bother me when these designs with single-ended planar-magnetic bass panels, quasi-ribbon midranges, and true ribbons only for treble are claimed to be "full-range ribbons." It was only after Apogee Acoustics started to make these false claims of "full-range ribbons" in their marketing literature that the word really started to be misused and even Magnepan had to start marketing their speakers the same to prevent loss of sales from it. The brand does have a serious going on regarding voodoo perceptions about them, such as the Grands being something more than a few planar-magnetic and ribbon drivers sitting atop a subwoofer. (Interestingly, I had considered using this model for inspiration for my speakers in addition to the QRS-1D, but my experiments with a low, flat subwoofer of mine revealed using the sub as a base to be a really lousy idea for proper placement [room and right against the floor] and coherence.)

Going back to your post, Apogee Acoustics has been recently reorganized, by long time fan and refurbisher, Graeme Keet, under its same old name as well as the new name of Perigee Acoustics. Graz as he's known has supplied replacement diaphragms and ribbon elements for several years now at a none-too-cheap price and has built up his name amongst Apogee fans for it. Now he seems to have undertaken the building of new speakers based on slight revisions of the old designs. Seeing how the original patents that Apogee might have encroached upon have finally expired, these products should be interesting to check out and watch for any new TOTL designs to eventually come out. Unfortunately, Apogee became synonymous with very expensive models and that doesn't appear to have changed at all. The new Perigee models are still exceedingly expensive, but at least you're getting better sound from them than the current crop of $100k+ speakers using seven decades out-dated Rice-Kellogg drivers.

The Apogee and Krell relationship is an interesting one and I wouldn't mind reading more about it. As I understand it, Krell removed the protection circuitry from the KSA-100 so that it could drive the Scintillas (not the first nor the last low impedance planar design, the Orthophase and Blatthalers that it was designed upon were much worse). The modified unit was sold as the KSA-100S, "S" for Scintilla. When the Grand came out, the $80k price tag included built in Krell amplification for the subwoofers and planar-magnetic midbass panels.

- JP
 
What a nice and comprehensive outline. I own for many many years Quantum 4. However, the midtoners are in a terminal stage# 902-0206 Dome Midtoners. Suggestions to handle this issue are welcome.
Welcome holland!

Your post seems to have become a little buried here and it might have been better had you started a new thread.

I'm assuming you've encountered the old Quantum midrange dome issue of broken tinsels? The coating originally was pliable, but age has hardened it making the material very brittle and prone to easily breaking. Fortunately, there are options available now to fix your midrange domes. If you were stateside, I'd recommend shipping the domes to Around the Sound near Seattle, WA. The folks there are accustomed to repairing the tinsels on these drivers and will do a nice job of it for only $15 per driver.

If you're elsewhere, international shipping would be too much of a hassle. For that, I've been informed by someone experienced in rebuilding QLS-1s that the Audax TW037 is an electrical and acoustic match for the original domes and will work with a quick redrill of the faceplate to match the old screw holes. However, this driver was discontinued several years back and seems pretty difficult to locate. There is an option, as the Audax RW037Y0 redome kit for this driver is supposed to be a direct substitute for the old. So, if you can find someone who repairs speaker drivers, they can order the ~$10 kit and redome your drivers with the new diaphragms for a little cost in labor.

I strongly recommend against buying used drivers off of eBay. Most of these were taken from other Quantum speakers parted out for greed making for fewer and fewer of these. Even then, you'd still be dealing with brittle tinsels that odds are will either already be broken or will break in shipment.

Good luck,

- JP
 
A little something for the technophiles...Daniel von Recklinghausen's original patent for the EMIT.

- JP
 

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Original Strathern Patent Filed 2/17/78 Gee I thought it was in the 50's?

I am sure others out there can find a better citation for the original Strathern Patent. I am kinda a novice at finding this stuff on the net. I tried to find it today. So far I have come up with this: Sealey & Whelan 1978 Patent for Strathern Audio Limited (Belfast).
I always thought there was an earlier one from the 50's but it appears my mind may have played a trick on me.

Here is the reference:

http://www.patentgenius.com/patent/4156801.html

Those of you that know how to do a better job at this than me can post a reply with a pointer to the original Patent in PDF format.

I would greatly appreciate that.

Thanks,
Michael
 
Gold Ribbon Concepts - Design is Similar as Well

Gee thanks for that link to the Strathern Patent.
Please teach me how to do that, will you.
By the way:
I forgot to even mention the GOLD RIBBON CONCEPTS model.
Same kind of design.
They also claim to have made some small contribution to this area.
Let's see what it was.....O.K.?

Here is a citation of their patent.

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5021613-claims.html

Can you perform your magic again and link it to the appripriate PDF file.

Also maybe you can write me directly and teach me how you do it so I don't have to keep asking you for your help.

MichaelAlanMarks@aol.com

Not that I mind, but I hate to nag.

Thanks,

Michael
 
You can access just about the same PDFs as I if you register for a free account at Free Patents Online. Unfortunately, it only covers US patents and not those in the UK for your earlier Strathern patents or Germany where a lot of planar speaker research appears to have occurred. Still, there are a lot of interesting things to read there and loads of planar designs, some that are pretty innovative, such as #5212735 that combines the true ribbon and planar-magnetic configurations to make what could (if paralleled) act as a real bass ribbon.

I can see your interest in the Gold Ribbon Concepts patent as they seem to basically recreate the Strathern ribbon and EMIT. I've attached it for your perusal.

Be sure to check out Stanley Rich's #3141071 patent. That along with Jim Winey's early patents are the most cited with these designs. Maybe that's the one you were thinking of earlier regarding the Stratherns?

- JP
 

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Infinity RS 1B - Why & How I Modified the Classic Design

Well the story goes like this.....In about 1982 I built my first version of the famous QRS 1-D Hybrid System which I have described above.....by about 1984 these speakers had evolved into mature stunning solid TEAK columns with detached Magnaplanar Tympani 1-D woofer panels.

You know how it goes. After about 5 years or so you always long for more and different no matter how good you have it. By 1990 I moved into a bigger house and had the opportunity to have two nice sound systems. On one the main floor primarily for listening to Hi Fi and Stereo and one in the floor below as a home theartre.

My upstairs system was the QRS 1-D Hybrid System with the Teak Columns, and the Tympani 1-D woofers.
The downstairs system was similar with 60 inch Carver Ribbons hung off the side of a second pair of Tympani 1-D woofers.

Then the inevidable happened. I fell in love with the Apogee Diva's. I found a great set and installed them in my main listening area (the picture with the Thomas Train Set in my pervious photos). I then sold the Carver 60" Ribbons and the attached set of Tympani 1-D woofers and moved my Teak QRS 1-D Hybrid system to the home theartre.

Again I was in bliss. For about 5 years or so. A divorce forced a change in lifestyle and another move. This time again to a new house. I moved the Apogee Diva's to the main room and the QRS 1-D Hybrid system to my new bedroom.

Then searching AUDIOGON out of boardom I ran across a set of INFINITY IRS SERIES III Loudspeakers. Well...no wife...no problem....(Did not have to deal with the Low Wife Acceptance Factor [LWEF] anymore) and so I just had to have them....and so....after a few phone calls....a week off work....a rental van....some hired hands.....and 3000 Miles of driving ....they were mine. In the meantime I had to make some room for them. No way was I going to sell the Apogee Diva's so I moved them to my bedroom and one of my long time friends coughed up the money to buy my complete Teak QRS-1D Hybrid System.

The pictures posted of my current systems with the Infinity IRS Series III Speakers in my main room and the Apogee Diva's in my bedroom are still as is and have been posted above. They remain unchanged.

What happened next? Well, 5 years later ( about a year ago now ) I bought a second house. With the second house comes the need for more stereo equipment. What to do, what to do?

I tried Carver ALS III's. Not bad but not good enough. I tried RS-1B's, again not bad...but not good enough. I tried another set of Carver 60" Ribbons in special hand made Oak towers ( very similar in design to the old Audio Concepts Speakers ) and got another set of Tympani 1-D woofers to mate with them...and it appeared I was getting somewhere close. A set of Infinity QLS-1's fell into my hands.....good...but not good enough.....then I ran into a set of IRS Series V's. Again I just had to have them.

Several phone calls, much money, rental van, some hired hands, and 2500 Miles later they were mine. Ahhhhh....perfection.

They are quite large for the little room I have them in, but after all I am still single and I could live like this....I could be happy. I just would just have to get rid of all my other stuff.

As I looked around I sat back and thought. Boy, those RS-1B's would really be a lot better in this room, if they only sounded as good as they looked. They are the right size. What is wrong with them anyway? Why don't they sound like small IRS Series V's? What is up with them?

So I tore apart one of them and looked at it's entire design, and to my dismay this is what I found...........................

The problem with the original design was that they were a very complicated 5 way design (6 way with the woofers), and although they looked much like the LINE SOURCE IRS Series the original RS-1B's were actually a point source.

The tweeters, although all the same physically were wired with 3 different crossover circuits. One for the back tweeter (3000Hz - 32,000Hz), one for the middle front tweeter (8000Hz-32,000Hz), and one for the top and bottom front tweeters (3000Hz-8000Hz). Thus they did not all cover the same frequency range and this caused several problems including, but not limited to, phase shift between the various EMIT drivers, increased distortion levels (causing the drivers to screach at high volumes - see below), and decreased power handling capabilities.

As for the EMIM's they are originally wired with two different crossover circuits. One for the third midrange down from the top (700Hz-3000Hz) and another for the other six (140Hz-700Hz). Thus all of the upper midrange came out of only one EMIM, the third one from the top, and the other 6 were wired in a series / parallel combination to produce just the lower midrange / upper bass. Again this caused phase shift problems, increased distortion, and reduced power handling capabilities.

Because of these crossover design flaws the RS-1b often blew drivers (especially the EMIM third from the top, as it handled all of the upper midrange by itself). Also even though you had this large array of seven EMIM's you were really only listening to one (the third from the top) and thus you did not benefit from the lower distortion and higher power handing capabilities possible if you used all the midrange EMIMs at once. Also the high frequency EMIT's tended to screach and become beamy when played loud...for the same reasons.

It is hard for me to believe all these design flaws were incorporated into one potentially great speaker. All the elements were there to make this a truely great speaker...but they were all designed out......making the speaker only a shadow of what it should have been capable of, if designed correctly.

You see, there are 2 ways to produce a given volume...A small speaker element moving a long distance or a large speaker element moving a smaller distance. They both move the same amount of air, so the volume is the same. However, in the first case distortion increases due to friction of the air molecules bumping into each other and heating up, and non-linearities in the speaker element the larger the excersion on the diaphram or voice coil, and furthermore you also risk blowing speaker elements when played loud. If the crossover were redesigned, all EMIT elements could share the same load, and all EMIM elements could share the same load...thus they could work in concert as one large speaker....reducing distortion and increasing power handling capability and significantly reducing phase errors between like drivers.

The question was....how to modify?

The main problem with the original design is the odd number of EMIM's (7 to be exact). There is no way of hooking them up in a parallel / series combination and get the same output from all the drivers. I toyed with the idea of only hooking up six, or carving into the cabinet to mount an eigth driver, but then it dawned on me.....I ran into the MONSOON driver some time back (described just briefly in a previous post) and they had all the right characteristics to meet my needs. They had the right impedance 4 Ohms. They had the right size and shape so that I could use 6 of them instead of the original 7 EMIM's with just a small baffle and it would fit into the RS-1B EMIM opening and look nice too. Their frequency response was right on the money and so was their sensitivity. It was obvious I was onto something when I then saw that Brian Chaney (the guy I let have the rights to the Strathern's in 1984) was already using them, yes the same MONSOON drivers I was holding in my hand, yes the same Monsoon drivers I was thinking about using; he was already using these exact drivers in the same actual application, in his new product line. That was it. I had to do it.

So I made the oak baffle plates to do the conversion. Mounted the new drivers. Designed a completely new crossover. Completely rewired the RS-1B speakers. Finally the original grill cloths fit back in place.

This new design eliminates all those prior problems. The Mid/Tweeter columns are now a 2 way design (3 way with the woofers) and the same midrange now comes out off all 6 dipolar planar midranges at once. That is to say all the EMIRM drivers put out the exact same frequencies (150Hz to 2,500 Hz). Also the tweeter array is now set so all 4 tweeters ( 3 facing forward and 1 facing rear) are all playing at the same time as well, from 2,500Hz to 32,000 Hz. The new Electro Magnetic Induction Dipolar Midrange Drivers are made using the latest technology including Neodynium Magnets and are in a permently sealed configuration to maintain their integrety. They are also a little bit bigger length wise, and thus have better impedance and frequency characteristics than the original INFINITY EMIM's.

Each module uses 6 brand new Electro Magnetic Induction Midrange Modules from 150 Hz to 2,500 Hz and then crosses over to 4 genuine INFINITY 1/2 Line Source EMIT tweeters 2,500 Hz to 32,000 Hz. The crossover used is set at 12 db/octave and uses audiophile grade polypropyline capacitors and audio grade inductors. Thus the frequency response of this mid/tweeter system is 150 Hz to 32,000Hz. The woofers cover from 35 Kz to 150 Hz. Thus the entire frequency respone is 35 Hz to 32,000 Hz.

The pictures show a completed pair of modified mirror imaged RS-1B Midrange/Tweeter towers complete with original solid OAK wood baffles and new crossovers. Each EMIM ( EMIRM) midrange driver is a real honest symmetrical push pull design. Each original Infinity EMIT tweeter is actually the same basic design (although the rear output is dampened and sound comes only out of the front of each tweeter...that is why one is used on the back.) I do have an improved EMIT but there was no way of using that EMIT in this design without modifying the cabinet...so I chose to stick with the original 4 EMITs in the design...although I rewired them as noted above in a series parallel combination so they now all play the same thing.

Impedance is 3-4 ohms depending on the frequency you measure it at, and is almost purely resistive. Recommended power is 20 Watts RMS to 200 Watts RMS per channel. Too much power is better than not enough. The sound is sweet and very detailed and they image beautifully.

I have had many questions as to who the actual maker of these midrange ribbon drivers are.....on the back bottom of the midrange ribbon driver it does say: (S)ONIGISTIX CORP. They claim that through the use of their Planar Focus Technology (PFT), these are the only flat speakers that offer the quality that you would expect from a high-end system. These flat beauties produce music based on a similar premise to cone woofers, except that in the place of a cone, a thin polymer membrane vibrates to create the necessary sound waves. Stretched out between powerful magnets, the membrane acts as a diaphragm when electrical currents create a magnetic field that causes the polymer to vibrate and create sound. In addition to looking cool, these flat panels are designed to reproduce sounds at a detail level that surpasses traditional cone speakers. I have added a picture of this logo so everyone can view it [note: the (S) in SONIGISTIX is under a portion of the metal plate and can not be seen].

Sonigistix of Richmond, B.C., Canada originally manufactured these PFT midrange drivers and sold them under the "Monsoon" brand name. The 'Monsoon' brand was also originally associated with OEM-sourced automotive audio speaker systems, notably supplied on a number of General Motors products and then later expanded onto other manufacturers, Volkswagen being one of them. By 2000, Sonigistix expanded its product line and Monsoon brand into the then burgeoning consumer computer multimedia market, developing a solid reputation for their flat-panel speaker designs that were popular with computer users keen on obtaining quality high fidelity from their computer hardware. Monsoon's speaker designs were based on planar magnetic technology, licensed from Eminent Technologies who developed the original concept. However, despite the brand's popularity among computer users--or perhaps because of it--within the next couple of years the assets of Sonigistix is purchased by Eastech, an Asian technology company that also focuses on providing consumer products in a variety of audio-based markets. Monsoon-branded retail audio products continued for a time under Eastech (under the Level 9 name), but by late 2004 the Monsoon brand had more or less disappeared from the U.S. marketplace. By 2005, Eastech no longer sold products under the Monsoon banner (it's assumed that they didn't renew any of the licenses for the planar magnetic technology that made Monsoon speakers what they are, though this information is not confirmed). As for Sonigistix, a privately-held company by that name currently resides in Little Rock, Arkansas, U.S.A. Although an online company profile on goliath.ecnext.com lists this Little Rock company as being in the home audio/video industry, it's not clear if this is the same company that originated in western Canada. As for the Monsoon brand, little is currently known about the company who makes it today. According to the GM, Monsoon speakers are a trademark of Delphi. Delphi happens to be a division of GM that supplies electrical parts to most major car manufacturers. This is smart on GM's part because most Monsoon in-car audio applications occur in GM vehicles anyway. So buying the rights to make them allows for a better relationship between the speaker manufacture and the car manufacture. Currently Monsoon in-car audio is an optional accessory on several GM cars as well as a handful of other cars. Monsoon-branded speakers, whether sold by Sonigistix or Level 9, have developed an almost cult-like following due to their incredible sound and accuracy, particularly uncommon (at the time of their run) for the personal computer marketplace. Dedicated owners of Monsoon flat panel speakers will often go to great lengths to keep their old Monsoons running, primarily because it's commonly held that available new replacements made and sold by other manufacturers are seen--or more precisely, heard--as inferior-sounding also-rans.

Also I have been told by some people who think they know what they are talking about, that Brian Chaney at VMPS Audio ( www.vmpsaudio.com ) uses the same or at least a similar midrange ribbon driver in his line of products. So interested parties might go there as well to find some useful additional information about this product.
Finally while Bohlenger-Graebner does make some great ribbon products, none of them are used in this speaker.

I hope this additional information is useful.
 

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Great post, Michael. A little short, but brevity is alright if used in moderation.

MagicMarksy said:
Also I have been told by some people who think they know what they are talking about, that Brian Chaney at VMPS Audio ( www.vmpsaudio.com ) uses the same or at least a similar midrange ribbon driver in his line of products. So interested parties might go there as well to find some useful additional information about this product.
If you don't mind my stepping in for those "people who think they know what they're talking about", it would seem that they're correct according to this VMPS page.

Brian Cheney said:
The star of the VMPS ribbon speakers are their midrange panels, a rebuilt Level 9 products ... Level 9 built about 300,000 of these panels most of which ended up in computers, where they worked OK.

MagicMarksy said:
Monsoon's speaker designs were based on planar magnetic technology, licensed from Eminent Technologies who developed the original concept.
Interesting that these are based on Bruce Thigpen's design. Are the magnets still set transversely like his earlier designs or set directly across from each other such as with his later drivers (after other patents for the layout expired)? The earlier type is described in the attached patent.

- JP
 

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hello ,i'm new on this audiokarma,and sory for my language,
just to say you and try to exchange that there's in my home from few days an Infinity QRS Id exactly T III B with electronic crossword on the three voices
They just wait for the right amplification

best regards
 
I Thought I Was The Only Nut!

Here is the evolutionary process involving the QRS-1D Hybrid Speakers I built for Arnold Wiseman of Washington, DC in 1982/83.
These evolved similar to mine but never beacame stand alone columns.
These always remained attached to the Tympani 1-D woofer panels for simplicity.

ABOUT 30 YRS. AGO ME AND FRIENDS DID ALMOST THE SAME THING, EXCEPT
WE MADE OUR OWN TWEETERS USING FOSTER SIRMARIUM COBOLT RIBBONS
MODIFIDE INTO DIPOLES (8ea.per side)PLUS 18"HARTLEY SUB IN A 17ft. TRANS/LINE BOX FILLED W/50pds. OF TEASED & CARTED LAMBS WOOL.I STILL
HAVE IT IN STORAGE,WILL SEND PIX WHEN I FIND THEM,I ALSO OWN FUTTERMAN AMPS. NICE TALKING TO EVERYONE!THANKS FOR LISTENING.
 
hello to day ,is the first day than i hear the QRS TIIIB "for mine like T1D"

a beautiful day

but my amplification is not good

in first for the bass i use à Krell ksa 50S but it' too short all the diodes where on
my other amplifier is an hybride of 50W with very big alimentation for the emim
after i do a switch perhaps better,i must say i'm just afraid when i see the ligth on for my ampli because i don't want too crasch my infinity hp and timpany
i speak for this qrs with french people who 's heard this qrs in many concept in first with 3 AR D79,the best ,with 3 Quicksilver 60W with a very beautifull music feeling for him and at least with AR KRELL and Mark Levinson ml9 in the bass
For this i try to find Dinaco mkIII up for the infinity and now i'am not sure for the bass because there's no Quicksilver in france
I have a tube préamplifier Graaf 13,5
If you have many experience with amplification for the Qrs 1D i take !!!
best regards ,and sorry for my "speaking".
dominique
 
This message is to any and all Infinity Owners that are interested in improving the sound of their system.

And it goes like this:

I was reading the thread on the mods you made to the RSIB and I was wondering if you could help me out with a schematic on the crossover you used. I have a pair of RS4.5s and I am thinking about redoing the crossovers.

Good idea.

The RS4.5s use 6 EMINS and 4 EMITs the reason I want to work on the crossovers are that the version I have has not had a bunch of mods done I have Revison A and the board goes up to Rev H.

Most are pretty similar as far as I know and all are, in my opinion, unnecessarliy much much too complicated for my taste.

I also have been thinking about Triamping these so I would only need the Woofer components for the Watkins to be passive.

Triamping would be best.
Biamping would be next best.

I would be glad to help you with modifications.

My original RS1b modification uses a Bi-Amp set up.
The woofers are connected directly to the woofer amps after the electronic crossover. IF you have Watkin's woofers there are lots of options. Connecting both voice coils in series and then the woofers in parallel is often a good one....but it depends on the amp used and the impedance you are shooting for. As I said Watkin's woofers 2 Ohm / 4 Ohm voice coils give many options. Connecting both Watkin's voice coils as described above in series and then putting both woofers in parallel yields 3 Ohms and lots of power handling capability....not a bad result.

The midranges and the tweeters are connected to the second amp after the electronic crossover.

The midrages are connected directly.
The tweeters have a passive 12 dB/Octave crossover with a Coil across the terminals of the tweeter and a capacitor in series with the tweeter coil parallel combination. This keeps the harmful lower frequencies out of the tweeters.

Triamping would even be better.
Then all the componets would connect directly to their respective amps, there would be NO passive components, and the amps would be best able to control the speakers at their output(s).

Michael
 
i'd like to know if you have experience with tube amplifiers for the qrs 1D ?

and more for amplifiers in tube techno with big "alimentation", i can heard a 300B légacy now

thank you

dominique
 
Quad Amped Dipole Ribbons with Servo Subwoofers

This is a continuation of a work in progress. I have been taking my time trying to get everything just right. These speakers are QUAD amped and use servo subwoofers.
Please see below for pictures and details.
Hope you enjoy these and they inspire someone else to do something similar.
All the parts are out there available on the open market.

The components are:

Twin Matched Mono Peavey CEX-4L 48 dB/Octave Balanced 4 Digital Way Crossovers
Crossover points 100 Hz, 200Hz, 8000Hz @ 48 dB/Octave

3 Krell KSA 150's

4 self amplified Infinity SSW-210 Servo Controlled Dual 10 inch woofer
Systems from 20Hz-100 Hz

Twin Matched Magnaplanar Tympani 1-D woofer panels (one per side) 100Hz-200Hz

Twin Matched Carver 60 inch Platinum Ribbons 200Hz-8000Hz

22 Rebuilt Dipolar Infinity EMIT Tweeters (12 Full Line Source & 10 Half Line Source) 8000Hz-45,000Hz

Pictures attached.

Enjoy,

Michael
 

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Strathern Speaker System I also Purchased Recently off of Audiogon

I found this system on Audiogon and the guy really wanted to sell it.
So I helped him out and purchased it from him.
It uses 2 Strathern Midrange Ribbons per channel and 8 DynaAudio 8 inch woofers per channel.
I did not buy the larger woofer system from him so as far as I know he is still offering it for sale.
I think this speaker system fits well in this thread.
Don't you?
I really have no other details.
Although who ever did the wood work appears to have done a nice job.
If any one needs more information about this or any other project I have posted about here on AudioKarma do not hesitate to get in touch with me.
Michael
 

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