Interconnect Upgrade Flat vs Round

[Patch-Cord]

I did a Google search and didn't come up with much of anything anywhere on comparisons between flat and round IC's, so here goes...

I'm looking at upgrading all of my interconnects. Unbalanced analog, coax digital, and HDMI. I'm not interested in power cords or speaker cables at the present time. I'm thinking about buying everything from one manufacturer.

I have spent alot of time comparing cables on the internet, and as of late, the flat cables have caught my interest. Not so much because they seem cool. More because of the flexibility and potential benefits of design.

My purchasing ability limits me to roughly $100 per cable. Less would be better, but slightly more might be acceptable. I am going to have to do this in stages, to stay within budget, starting with HDMI, then Pre > Amp, then digital sources. Total expenditure of $1000-$1500 over the next 6-12 months. The TT setup is fine for now.

Not too sure about anything with silver clad wire or connectors. My experience with my system tells me that the silver clad wire makes the treble slightly brittle. I prefer things slightly to the warm side of neutral anyway.

My system is a 7.1 HT setup used for all forms of music and movies. I'm not a 2 channel listener, so when playing music have my AVR in "all channel stereo" mode.

Main Equipment:

Anthem MRX 300 (used as preamp only)>
Adcom GFA-7707 >
Mirage Omni speakers, (vintage 2006), with four 250 towers, two 150 bookshelf, and CC center channel),
+ Klipsch KSW-200 subwoofer, (vintage 1999).


Source Equipment:

Panansonic BD-60 Blu-ray
Toshiba HDA2 HD-DVD
Onkyo DV-SP501 (used as CD player)
Pioneer PDR-609
Toshiba DVD-R/VHS
B&K Phono 10
Sony PS-X50
Technics SL-QL1

What I am looking for is peoples actual comparative experience between the cable designs mentioned in the title of this thread, along with proven design theory principals of the flat cables with LCR measurements. What is good or bad between either design? Are the flat cable designers really onto something, or is it just a different, (but not necessarily better), mousetrap?

TIA

---Mike---

 

[loonze]

I have been pretty impressed by a pair of Goertz interconnects which are in my system now, however, I have also been happy with my Silnote audio cables. Goertz are flat- Silnotes are round---???

 

[Patch-Cord]

Goertz seems to be a manufacturer that I missed for flat IC's. Maybe because of reading Audioholics "Speaker Cable Shootout 1,2, and 3. They didn't seem to care for the Goertz speaker cables due to high capacitance IIRC.

Does Goertz publish the specs on their IC's? The only reason I ask, is because I know from experince that I prefer cables with low capacitance. Thus the reason I am presently using Blue Jeans on most of my equipment.

But I think there is more to be heard... so time for an upgrade.

I will check out the Goertz flat IC's.

Thank you Loonze

---Mike---

 

[loonze]

you are welcome! -the fact that the Goertz ics which I am using are very short[.5 meter] may be responsible for some of what I hear.

 

[Patch-Cord]

The point is you like what you hear. That is what is most important. I notice that they make solid silver IC's too. Very tempting, but getting out of my price range.

 

[MikeT.]

Try a pair of Kimber Tonik. Excellent cables. I've owned Goertz speaker cables and IC's. The flat speaker cables exhibited great dynamics with a slightly exaggerated and detailed high end but really sounded great. The Goertz IC's were pretty flat and uninteresting by comparison. Both were flat cables.

Kimber Toniks are inexpensive and exhibit the same dynamic characteristics of the Goertz speaker cables with not of the exaggeration in the high end.

Surprisingly good. I still have them in my system but recently bypassed them for the van den Hul optical.

 

[Patch-Cord]

Mike T.

Read in another thread in CE that you own some Wireworld IC's. Which model, and what are your impressions compared to the Kimber Tonic.

 

[Splatter Pak]

Your best/cheapest way to go may just be to buy some good quality component video cable, rip off one of the three cables, and use the other two for interconnects. I had such good results with Phillips PXT1000 cable that I wired my whole stereo with it.

 

[loonze]

order some ofc silver plated copper 20 gauge wire,a set of nice rca cable ends and spend 20 minutes soldering one to the other-instant high end interconnects.

 

[Patch-Cord]

Thanks for the suggestions on making my own cables. It is something I have been wanting to do for quite some time. Unfortunately I don't have the time for that.

I am considering purchasing some of the "flat wire" tecnology cables, and wondering if there are any benefits over standard round cables.

The ones in consideration are the low end Analysis Plus, and the low to mid range Wireworld cables. Just interconects.

I wasn't aware that Goertz made flat wire cables, so that was a good suggestion. However, from other research in the past, I learned that the way they design their cables heavily manipulates the signal going throught them. What MikeT said about the Goertz he experienced kinda confirms that for me.

My guess is that high capacitance is the reason they sounded dull and uninteresting. IME high capacitance cables really roll of the treble and congest the midrange. OTOH, silver clad anything tends to cause the treble to get a little to crisp with my gear.

---Mike---

 

[bare]

Silver has a 4% higher conductance than Copper. Brightness is a given, like it or not.
Adding resistance to a speaker cable often adds bass and warmth. The slight change of impedance.. sold miles of boutique cables.. likely still does.
Someone suggested buying a Mundorf Silver foil Capacitor and unwinding it for it's 'many' feet of flat silver foil... to assemble bespoke interconnects from.
Or possibly even speaker feeds.. albeit it's a bit fragile for that.

 

[Adda]

In my experience, silver plated copper cable, with silver plugs, is not necessarily bright sounding.

I use Supra Trico silver plated and double shielded coax cable with Eichmann silver bullet plugs between my pre and power amp.
That cable sounds warmer then Lindy Premium Gold cables (cheap but decent OFC cable).

 

[Patch-Cord]

Yeah. That's supposedly true about the Wireworld products, but I'm a little leery after what I have experienced in my system. Maybe the direction I went was just a mismatch.

 

[Glen B]

I have tried Goertz Triode Quartz (TQ2) silver and Micropurl interconnect cables in past years and they were not flat, bright or lifeless. I also used them for phono (LOMC), and they were noise-free inspite of being an unshielded design. As with all things, careful matching is important.

 

[Patch-Cord]

Stage One and Two Complete

Well...

After doing substantially more internet research, and on this forum,,, I purchased some Analysis Plus Oval One interconnects to go between the Pre and amp. I also purchased some Wireworld Chroma 7HDMI cables for all video components, plus a Wireworld Solsitce 7 subwoofer cable.

I wasn't going to buy all of this at once, But Sound Approach is running a 10% off special on all cables and connectors till the end of July. Plus everything is free shipping.

Now it gets a bit interesting. While placing my order, I noticed that SA doesn't offer the option of purchasing single interconnects or speaker cables,,, just pairs. So I called up SA and talked to a very nice individual, and explained the problem I was having. They were so keen on my suggestion, (and are going to upddate their website), that they gave me the 7th, single Oval one, for free.

I think they definitely earned a repeat customer. :thmbsp:

Next phase will be the digital IC's and speaker cables. IC's will most likely be WW Starlight 7, and the speaker cables A+ Oval 12. That will get expensive due to some 30ft runs.

 

[Patch-Cord]

For the Record

I think I should add that I am NOT affiliated with Sound Approach in any way, shape, or form. Also... Even though I was compensated a free cable for my suggestion,,, it was NOT under ANY agreement of free advetising for Sound Approach.

I just offered my positive shopping experience regarding the cables I purchased. A review of them will follow when the cables are received and installed.

 

[impeculies]

Hello Patch-Cord; we are interested in your findings. I have a mish-mash of cables in my system. I have been very happy with the ZU Audio BOK power cables they are selling on eBay for under a $100. My sub cable is the Wireworld Oasis 6, what a great cable for the money. My USB cable is a flat cable from Oyaide ($40), it easily matched the solid silver Pangea USB I had for half the money. I know IC's are very subjective and have to be heard to know. Keep us updated, cheers!

 

[Patch-Cord]

Well...

I received the A+ Oval Ones last Friday, and swapped them out with the BJC 1505f between the Pre and Amp. I made some basic notes as I did my initial listening.

First impressions right out of the box:

First thing noticed what appears to be more gain. Less anemic sound at low voulume levels. I can actually set the volume lower than I used to, and have more weight, definition and ambience. Mids and bass seem tighter and more detailed, but with no loss in the treble. Overall more smooth and better tonal balance. The heavy midrange "flare" I was experiencing before, especially at louder volumes,,, is now gone. Minor differences in the afforemention, qualities, (except the midrange "flare"), but definitely a more open 3d holographic presentation with the A+. Also slightly more micro detail. Maybe best stated as slightly more forward and open, but mellow at the same time, compared to the BJC's.

Upon further and more critical listening over the last couple days, nothing has really changed since my first impressions. However, being curious about why I was hearing differences, I really started paying attention to the tonality and frequency response of my speakers.

It seems that the BJC 1505f accentuate the lower half of the frequency range. For a quite some time, I have noticed a "notch" in the upper mid/lower teble fequencies, that I was never quite able to figure out. That "notch" is now gone with the A+ Oval Ones.

The BJC's and A+ cables use a similar solderless crimp end temination with similar looking RCA's, but there are differences. Both use a gold plated "spring clip" type connection inside the body for the return path, but the BJC RCA appears to be aluminum bodied while the A+ is completely gold plated. See attached pics.

The BJC is a coax design. My understanding is that A+ Oval One is a paired analog design.

Capacitance:
A+ - 100pf/1 m
BJC - 87pf/4 ft.

How does each fit comparatively??? A+ seem a little tighter... actually snap into place. However, the A+ cable is slightly less flexible for tight bends than the BJC.

Overall impression so far? For roughly $25 more per cable, (not pair), the A+ Oval One is a definitive winnner over the BJC 1505f.

---Mike---

P.S. The Wireworld cables arrived yesterday and are installed, (except sub). Review of those will follow.

 

[impeculies]

Terrific follow up, any time you can hear a difference, be it an upgrade for under a $100 invested is something to celebrate, thank you for the pictures. I would assume those notches on the center pin add the extra grip you mention. I have the A+ Power Cord for my line conditioner, it removed the propensity of the stock cable to heat up when we had heavy loads on our circuits. Funny how these little things add to the pleasure of this hobby.

 

[Patch-Cord]

I don't know exactly what the purpose of the notches on the center pin of the A+ is for. If I had to guess... it would have somethng to do with the temination of the conductor to the center pin. Neither the BJC or A+ have a split center pin, so the grip seems to only be attained by the spring clip inside the barrel. When I first installed the BJC, the connectors went on with some resistance,,, but comparatively the A+ there was a definitve "pop/click/snap" when fully seated.