Is the lack of a DAC in my system my weakest link?

onesojourner

onesojourner

Member
Over the years I have accumulated several pieces of what I consider decent stereo equipment. I am constantly swapping out this or that and I will continue to collect and tweak.

Here is my current setup before I got it all hooked up:
Heathkit AA-1600, AP-1600, refoamed Baby Advent ii's

I also have the following:
Advent Loudspeaker- refoamed and recapped, Exteriors still need attention
Electrostatic - pristine exterior need foam
Genesis - need foam
Jensons - pulled from console, need boxes
I also have the SS amp from the console that I plan to play around with.


My source is my Windows 10 Machine running JRiver. I am in the process of converting my library to flac. I am just using the 3.5mm out from the machine (Realtek ALC892). Would I benefit from a DAC? I don't have money burning a whole in my pocket but if I can improve my setup by tossing $50-$100 at it I can swing that. I don't have any complaints with my setup, I just want to sneak up on "better".

What is the next logical upgrade for this system? I am currently moving into a slightly bigger space, 12'x13' with 9' ceilings.
 
Do you have any suggestions in the $50 range. I am reading up on D30 now. I am not apposed to paying that much but I do want to know that spending twice as much will be worth the cash.
 
If you're extremely budget conscious give the Behringer UCA-202/222 a look. Either one is ~$30 at Amazon. I'm unable to detect any difference between the two other than the 222 has a Red case while the 202 has a Silver case. The back of the 222 has the number UCA-202 molded into it. I have a 222.

FWIW: Still in the budget category I prefer the Dragonfly Black ($99) or the HiFiMe 9018 Sabre DAC $80. I have a HiFime Sabre DAC. Sabre DAC's have received excellent reviews as have the Dragonfly series.
 
JoeESP9 said:
If you're extremely budget conscious give the Behringer UCA-202/222 a look. Either one is ~$30 at Amazon. I'm unable to detect any difference between the two other than the 222 has a Red case while the 202 has a Silver case. The back of the 222 has the number UCA-202 molded into it. I have a 222.

FWIW: Still in the budget category I prefer the Dragonfly Black ($99) or the HiFiMe 9018 Sabre DAC $80. I have a HiFime Sabre DAC. Sabre DAC's have received excellent reviews as have the Dragonfly series.
Click to expand...

I have read some pretty negative things about audioquest as a company. Is there any truth to that?
 
The Topping also has Optical, Coax and USB inputs that does give a good amount of flexibility.

It's a very nice clean sounding DAC with excellent soundstage. And no filters or anything else to mess around with.

I like mine a lot, and had no urge to "upgrade" at all, with the exception of considering a small MQA capable DAC, but that's a different story. (Meridian Explorer)

Eric
 
onesojourner said:
Do you have any suggestions in the $50 range. I am reading up on D30 now. I am not apposed to paying that much but I do want to know that spending twice as much will be worth the cash.
Click to expand...

See if you can time a Massdrop x Grace Standard DAC, the drop has been inactive for some time but there is many requests so can be offered again in the near future.
I have an Emotiva Little Ego, they come up used for around $60 on that auction site every now and then, I think it sounds pretty good for what it is, can be used as a headphone amp as well.
Used JDS Labs ODAC is another option.

These are USB only DACs.
 
Before just jumping into a DAC, look at what your PC already has in it. The last 5 to 7 years or so, the onboard Sound Card Circuits of many (not all) motherboards have improved considerably. What used to be true, that computer sound card circuits are only appropriate for the beeps and boobs of arcade games is no longer true. I would look for the sound card specs of the motherboard and compare that to the specs of a budget DAC before I buy. There are some new motherboards are actually better then some of the budget DACS
 
shelly_d said:
Before just jumping into a DAC, look at what your PC already has in it. The last 5 to 7 years or so, the onboard Sound Card Circuits of many (not all) motherboards have improved considerably. What used to be true, that computer sound card circuits are only appropriate for the beeps and boobs of arcade games is no longer true. I would look for the sound card specs of the motherboard and compare that to the specs of a budget DAC before I buy. There are some new motherboards are actually better then some of the budget DACS
Click to expand...
It has the Realtek ALC892. I have not been able to find a whole lot about that chipset when it comes to hifi stereo.
 
I don't have much faith in the analog side of a PC. DAC chip aside, that's where a decent External DAC makes the biggest difference.

Not to mention PC noise in general.

Eric
 
onesojourner said:
It has the Realtek ALC892. I have not been able to find a whole lot about that chipset when it comes to hifi stereo.
Click to expand...

  • DACs with 95dB SNR (A-weighting), ADCs with 90dB SNR (A-weighting)
  • Ten DAC channels support 16/20/24-bit PCM format for 7.1 channel sound playback, plus 2 channels of concurrent independent stereo sound output (multiple streaming) through the front panel output
  • Two stereo ADCs support 16/20/24-bit PCM format, multiple stereo recording
  • All DACs supports 44.1k/48k/96k/192kHz sample rate
  • All ADCs supports 44.1k/48k/96k/192kHz sample rate
This and more from this website:

http://www.realtek.com.tw/products/productsView.aspx?Langid=1&PFid=28&Level=5&Conn=4&ProdID=284

You might be able to find more at the website for your motherboard.

That Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR) is not as good as some of the newer motherboards out there however. My Asus board boasts 105 dB SNR and they had an "audiophile" version that boasted 115 dB, however 95 dB digital to analog is damn quiet and 90 dB analog to digital is also pretty good. Don't know if the external DAC's do better but at least you now have a basis for comparison.

To put it in perspective, the line input for your preamp is 95dB SNR and your power amp is 100 dB SNR. At 95dB for your sound card, it is on a par with your preamp. I would like to calculate your overall SNR but is is too late for me to take the time. I need to get up early tomorrow morning for work. If I get through it tomorrow I will repost. It has been a number of years since I have done this sort of calculation.

Good Luck.
 
Also take a look at a Starting Point Systems DAC3 .... I much prefer that to my S.M.S.L M8 or much more expensive Gustard DAC-X12
 
shelly_d said:
That Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR) is not as good as some of the newer motherboards out there however. My Asus board boasts 105 dB SNR and they had an "audiophile" version that boasted 115 dB, however 95 dB digital to analog is damn quiet and 90 dB analog to digital is also pretty good. Don't know if the external DAC's do better but at least you now have a basis for comparison.

To put it in perspective, the line input for your preamp is 95dB SNR and your power amp is 100 dB SNR. At 95dB for your sound card, it is on a par with your preamp. I would like to calculate your overall SNR but is is too late for me to take the time. I need to get up early tomorrow morning for work. If I get through it tomorrow I will repost. It has been a number of years since I have done this sort of calculation.

Good Luck.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the information. I am not familiar with SNR. I am reading up on it now. I appreciate you taking the time!
 
A budget dac will not make or break your system. IMO your weakest link is your speakers. I would consider upgrading those before even considering a standalone dac.
 
rs732 said:
A budget dac will not make or break your system. IMO your weakest link is your speakers. I would consider upgrading those before even considering a standalone dac.
Click to expand...

All of those speakers are my weakest link? Most of those speakers get a decent amount of praise around these parts.
 
I've not heard the advents in person so can't really contribute. On the other hand there is a lot of generally positive discussion about them online
 
Fwiw, the JBL L100s I was using for some time were way more sensitive to the DAC sound signature than the more neutral and revealing Klipsch Fortes I have in service now. So while it may be counter-intuitive a lesser speaker can benefit more from a better DAC, from my experience anyway.
 
onesojourner said:
All of those speakers are my weakest link? Most of those speakers get a decent amount of praise around these parts.
Click to expand...
I am just answering your original question. You currently have one set of functional speakers. Baby Advent II's are surprisingly decent sounding speakers (i pick them up for friends all the time). However,they're are not doing that heathkit any justice. I imagine you would be more satisfied with the results in investing in upgrading your speakers than a budget DAC.
 
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