Is The YAMAHA MX1000 The Best AMP From YAMAHA?

I've heard the 101M, and I sure couldn't identify any audible distortion, but that was through relatively efficient speakers, that barely made the beast twitch a whisker.

Rarely does any amp that's properly working produce any audible amounts of distortion. In fact, many very well respected amps don't have particularly impressive distortion figures.

Point being, the difference between 0.1% and 0.001% looks good on paper, but in reality the difference is merely a discussion of how many fairies fit on the head of a pin. IMHO....of course.
 
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Rarely does any amp that's properly working produce any audible amounts of distortion. In fact, many very well respected amps don't have particularly impressive distortion figures.

Point being, the difference between 0.1% and 0.001% looks good on paper, but in reality the difference is merely a discussion of how many fairies fit on the head of a pin. IMHO....of course.

True. THD is not audible until 1%. Speakers produce far more distortion with 5% being considered good. Rise and decay differences are audible. Square wave differences are also audible.
 
Congrats Arkay......that is a beast of an amp....you may need four guys to lift that baby :scratch2:
 
Speaking of Class A, I suppose another contender "might be" the rare and expensive Yamaha GF-D1. I search the web every now and then to see if anyone ever might publish an audio critique of this amp removed from the GF-1 speakers, but have yet to come across any.

b.jpg

www.hifido.co.jp
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www.hifido.co.jp

You might have a contender in the back round upper left corner tube amp ooohhhh that's a mighty fine looking tube amp.


Cheers,
Bob
 
Gfd-1

Check out the following link to an auction of a GFD-1 in Japan (auction ends tomorrow 8/8/10 in case any of you is out to get one)...check it out quick as it has some AWESOME photos (front, back, specs, power supply, manuals, boxes, etc.)...:D

http://translate.google.com/transla...0CCwQ7gEwBA&prev=/search?q=yamaha+gfd-1&hl=en

It seems more of a finesse type Class A amp, although it can drive 4 ohm speakers (min), it's rating of 100wpc into 6 ohms indicates it might not prove much of a challenge to the 101M when using low efficiency speakers.
 
The amp is part of the statement GF-1 speaker system (4 way design), there would be 4 of them per side located in the sub unit (4x100W@6ohm or rather 4x125W@4.5 ohm as the speakers are rated at).
For some reason Yamaha took 2 amps and placed them in one cabinet with an external power supply, a volume knob, added 6 input channels and got a (simpel) real high-end integrated amp.

So we are indeed looking at an amp designed as part of a high power system with lots of finesse, but put to work in the more humble role as a stereo integrated amp. And not the intended 500W pure class A, driving a mix of Berylium, gold and kevlar with an efficiency of 94dB@1W. The 101M would be the small one in this comparison.
 
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Well, apparently nobody bid on this pristine looking GFD-1, so 5 days were added to the auction. Nice/rare package with the original packaging, literature, accessories, etc. The separate power supply might be an audiophile touch, perhaps it includes power "conditioning" and surge protection? The power cables are impressive looking, and I presume the reason there are two cables indicates a dual mono stereo amp design. Love the external design for sure, especially the brushed metal faceplate and the top vents. At least I can imagine the sweet sound this amp could be capable of removed from the GF-1.

Well, the current price is shown as 300,000 Yen = ~$3,500 (USD). I sure hope an AK member buys this and reports back to us all about how this beauty sounds.

http://translate.google.com/transla...0CCwQ7gEwBA&prev=/search?q=yamaha+gfd-1&hl=en
 
The amp was designed as a mono design, intended to drive one driver in the GF-1. The GFD-1 is 2 channels = 2 x mono amp's, yes it's a dual mono design.

The external power supply is part of the amp, it can't run with out it.
 
PC4002M...H7000...PC9500N...PC01N Series

The above amps were mentioned in an interview with some Yamaha Power Amp Engineers as the "most impressive" or "most memorable" in history. So, these can be considered insider opinions from commercial audio engineers regarding commercial audio products. Here is a link to the interview. These guys have been around for a bit (one guy in mid-70s, the other two in the mid-80s) on the pro/commercial side.

http://www.yamahacommercialaudio.co...archive/2004_10/09_pc01n_engineers/index.html

Of course, since these guys are the PC01N series amp engineers, I am guessing they would also include these amps in the mix if pushed.
 
Thanks a lot for the info.....

Little by little I am pieceing the info that I need together............

There is that 10,000 model in E-bay right now and they are asking over 6,000 for it....It looks beautiful....

Thanks a lot again for the fotos and the info,

Sorry to be a newbie here digging up old threads, but I'm happy to find finally one data point on a 10,000. I have multiple MX-1000U's and love them completely, and it's only that love of perfect reliability spanning 25 years that makes me contemplate that I'd just once like to encounter that limited 10,000. I've wondered lately what one might go for these days, now that I have more "disposable" cash (it ain't income anymore when you're done). Trick is, I'd want a pair. But at least I now have at least one data point. Considering what I read about them way back when, I'd probably do the 6 on one, sight unseen. What I read back when was that there were 250 of them produced. The odds of *two* coming up for sale seems unlikely, but you gotta start with one to get to two. :D
 
I know this is an old thread, but I don't think anyone mentioned the PC2602M, a pro amp from the late 80's.

It's 260w/ch into 8 ohms and 400w/ch into 4 ohms. I have one on the woofers of my biamped JBL's and it has been a great amp.

It has a fan, but in the 4 years I have owned it, the fan has come on twice. It has to be at near full continuous power for a while to come on. Of course, it would likely come on sooner at lower impedance loads.

It uses 5 pairs of TO-3P's per channel.

Anyway, they come up on the bay occasionally for little dough.
 
Mx-d1 !!!

As i have already mentioned in my posting about Yamaha quality decrease ?, in my opinion the MX-D1 is supreme to all other Yamaha power amps. I´ve had the MX-1000, the 101M ( = PC5002M ). The MX-D1 eates them for breakfast.

The 101M is superior to the MX-1000 in terms of sheer control of the speaker. Very dry bass. But as i tested the MX-D1 5 years ago, i was just astonished about the dramatic increase in musical detail. After a second i knew my beloved 101M must go. This is progress. 2 x 500 Watts class-D power in a shiny but tiny enclosure.

Compare for yourself : 101M has same power while weighting a hefty 61 kg, the MX-D1 weights only 10 kgs. Class-D don´t needs the heavy power transformers and the big caps. Also class-D amps develop very low waste heat. The only amp that comes close in terms of sound quality is the A-S2000. I have heard it with several speakers and it was very impressive. It hasn´t got the virtually endless power of the MX-D1, but it sounds very good. I have just heard a CR-3020 : i was really disappointed how dark and muddy that old battleship sounded.

The MX-D1 is the right stuff for people who like that "in your face" sound. It is extremely detailed and both bright and enormous powerful in the deep. For me it´s like a dream come true. But there might be music lovers who prefer a noble distance to the soundstage for example for classic music.

Too bad Yamaha didn´t continue this type of amp. Now it´s a well sought after item. I´m lucky to say i own two of them. Actually i can do real bi-amping : one amp for the bass and one for mid-high section. It´s just great.

Kind regards

Oliver
 
i think it depends a lot on the speaker you are matching. for low-impedance speakers, i think the PC-5002M does a better job than the MX-D1. i had already let my PC-5002M go when i picked up my NIB MX-D1, but i ended up preferring my B-1 over it -- its richer tone was a better match for my speakers at the time. but the one thing i regret is not giving the MX-D1 more time to burn in before i let it go. the tone may have continued to change...
 
I had one once too (yamaha HCA amplifier). I agree about it. What's always funny to me is that when one manufacturer actually develops something new and improved which really does perform better than anything else, other manufacturers are quick to dismiss it.

Why? because they don't have it and can't make money by licensing it from the true inventor of the technology who did all of the R&D in the first place (in this case Yamaha).

I actually thought that HCA sounded at least as good as a pure class A amp I had once. Maybe slightly better. This was decades ago though and is only just a vague memory now...

cheers!
Well that stands to reason, as HCA was real class A. Not that it would matter, they perform admirably.

The Titanium series MX-2000, and MX-10000 used advanced approaches for variable level fulltime Class A to maximum power. Bedini also did variable bias but it was rather simpler and more of a slow descending bias circuit. These yamahas are not push-pull like Pass' Threshold stepped bias amps, nor Quad's current dumping, as upon closer inspection to the schematics we realize Yamaha's approach was with totally different.

Each amp employs two rows of Class A amps who's output was inverted to each other but with equal phase bias. One signal would then be inverted on one side, summed to the opposite, and the bias and distortions were cancelled, not unlike balanced interconnects.

The input signal was referenced by the error correction amp, and used to further eliminate transient and harmonic distortion that may remain on its output.

The MX2000 and MX10000 will maintain a flat response into any load due to this servo, and was voltage biased in contrast to the current bias topology of other amps and this bias was modulated with the audio signal. I'm not sure about the MX1000, I know its Class A but to full power or not, I can't say having never owned one, but at its price what more could be expected? Word is, they sound super.

And, with class A, this was one of the big considerations. Temperature coefficients would change the any class A amps specs wildly if the temp changed, again in the yamaha's its all servo controlled to correct this.

Intriguing technology hardly seen anywhere, really.

All of it had to be faster than the audio signal, which we know was fast and the amps stated bandwidth was 200kHz, but much higher. In the end the HCA allowed a small amp (well, they're actually pretty large) to provide bounties of power per channel into 1 Ohm without compounding constant bias as it reduced the duty cycle.

So what is it? Its two single ended class a amps on each side, with nulled distortion and music controlled bias. Nothing short of brilliant.

images
 
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MX-1000 and where it ranks in Yamaha's History

There seems to be some excellent info, and also not so excellent , biased and wishful thinking being expounded in this thread. The MX-1000 is a consumer grade amp which was a decent enough amp for it's era, but no where near the MX-10000 or MX-2000 amplifiers which were High End amps that were far more expensive designs and were never intended to be a mass market product like the MX-1000 and it's brethren were. Below is a rough breakdown of the amplifier series that led to, and surpassed the MX-1000.

M-40 / M-60 / M-80 This series is the start of the same cosmetic and for the most part, the same circuit designs for the following series . There were some upgrades and small improvements in circuit and power output, but all of these amp share a common ancestry . This series led to the :

M-45 / M-65 / M-85 which then led to the MX series

MX-600 / MX-800 / MX-1000 which then was followed by the

MX-630 / MX-830 / MX-1000 (again) . (Please note, the 630 and 830 lose the backlit meters).

None of these designs are radically different in circuit design or sound until they were replaced by the MX -1 and MX -2 . Which BTW, are far superior designs to the MX-1000 sonically . However, the MX-1 & 2 were still not meant to be real competition for the High End MX-10000 and MX-2000.

As for the Digital Class D MX-D1, well that is a nice amp, but you can't really compare this design to either the High End MX-10000 / 2000 or the consumer grade M / MX series. While it has a high end price tag, a lot of that high price tag can be attributed to developing a new technology. There are loads of examples of early tech products that were once very expensive. Did you know that Sharp was the early driving force behind LCD TV's ? They were the first company to offer a 20 inch LCD TV. It had a retail price of $16,000 ! New technology takes time and LOTS of money to develop. Keep that in mind when comparing Digital Class D amps to highly evolved and refined analog designs. All one has to do to draw a comparison is to look at early CD players to see the same cost vs performance issues.

As for newer Yamaha amps like the A-S3000 /2000 /1000 . Well these are integrated amps with high end price tags like the MX-10000 / 2000. All of these amps are far more expensive in design, and are not really intended as direct replacements for the consumer grade M and MX series amps.

So if you want a decent affordable Yamaha amp with pretty backlit meters, then the MX-1000 is probably the best and newest version of that amp. But if you want better sound, then go with the MX-1 or MX-2. If you still prefer the Cool meters, then the M-80 and M-85 are essentially the same amp as the MX-1000 and often for a lot less coin ... Older designs like the M-70 and B-2 and so on, are really starting to approach some seriously aged parts, so keep in mind, that whatever perceived benefits may come with the OLDER amps, they may be in need of upgrading the aged components, which is necessary for continued reliable operation.
 
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"None of these designs are radically different in circuit design or sound until they were replaced by the MX -1 and MX -2 . Which BTW, are far superior designs to the MX-1000 sonically . However, the MX-1 & 2 were still not meant to be real competition for the High End MX-10000 and MX-2000".

Curiosity, what is your basis for stating that the mx1 & 2 sound better than their predecessors?
 
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There seems to be some excellent info, and also not so excellent , biased and wishful thinking being expounded in this thread. The MX-1000 is a consumer grade amp which was a decent enough amp for it's era, but no where near the MX-10000 or MX-2000 amplifiers which were High End amps that were far more expensive designs and were never intended to be a mass market product like the MX-1000 and it's brethren were. Below is a rough breakdown of the amplifier series that led to, and surpassed the MX-1000.

M-40 / M-60 / M-80 This series is the start of the same cosmetic and for the most part, the same circuit designs for the following series . There were some upgrades and small improvements in circuit and power output, but all of these amp share a common ancestry . This series led to the :

M-45 / M-65 / M-85 which then led to the MX series

MX-600 / MX-800 / MX-1000 which then was followed by the

MX-630 / MX-830 / MX-1000 (again) . (Please note, the 630 and 830 lose the backlit meters).

None of these designs are radically different in circuit design or sound until they were replaced by the MX -1 and MX -2 . Which BTW, are far superior designs to the MX-1000 sonically . However, the MX-1 & 2 were still not meant to be real competition for the High End MX-10000 and MX-2000.

As for the Digital Class D MX-D1, well that is a nice amp, but you can't really compare this design to either the High End MX-10000 / 2000 or the consumer grade M / MX series. While it has a high end price tag, a lot of that high price tag can be attributed to developing a new technology. There are loads of examples of early tech products that were once very expensive. Did you know that Sharp was the early driving force behind LCD TV's ? They were the first company to offer a 20 inch LCD TV. It had a retail price of $16,000 ! New technology takes time and LOTS of money to develop. Keep that in mind when comparing Digital Class D amps to highly evolved and refined analog designs. All one has to do to draw a comparison is to look at early CD players to see the same cost vs performance issues.

As for newer Yamaha amps like the A-S3000 /2000 /1000 . Well these are integrated amps with high end price tags like the MX-10000 / 2000. All of these amps are far more expensive in design, and are not really intended as direct replacements for the consumer grade M and MX series amps.

So if you want a decent affordable Yamaha amp with pretty backlit meters, then the MX-1000 is probably the best and newest version of that amp. But if you want better sound, then go with the MX-1 or MX-2. If you still prefer the Cool meters, then the M-80 and M-85 are essentially the same amp as the MX-1000 and often for a lot less coin ... Older designs like the M-70 and B-2 and so on, are really starting to approach some seriously aged parts, so keep in mind, that whatever perceived benefits may come with the OLDER amps, they may be in need of upgrading the aged components, which is necessary for continued reliable operation.
The MX-D1 is a superb sounding amp. IMO better sounding than the MX-2000. Friends of mine who have heard the MX-D1 consider it more "tubey" sounding than other Yamaha amps. I think that is largely due to it's bass control which is not as tight as the 101M/PC5002M or MX-10000. I think it was worth the original MSRP of $5000, but it had to be steeply discounted as most buyers of audio gear in that price range are looking for a "high-end" name. Their loss.
 
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