Is Tidal in trouble?

Discussion in 'Streaming Services' started by Condorsat, Dec 14, 2017.

  1. uofmtiger

    uofmtiger Super Member

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    I see your point, but I have seen that mentioned several times. While it doesn't affect sound, it can affect the user experience.

    Personally, I don't subscribe to Tidal because of the (double) price for minimal difference in sound, especially where I listen to most music. Also, I prefer Siri integration which makes it easier to choose music when I drive or I am out working in the yard. I have a 6 month trial right now, but I still mainly use Apple Music.
     
  2. +48V

    +48V hi-fi or die

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    Would it be any more appealing if they had a tier priced 1/2 as much? Oh wait, they do. ;)
     
  3. uofmtiger

    uofmtiger Super Member

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    The only compelling feature for Tidal (for me) is lossless. Their cheaper plan loses that one compelling feature that offsets such an ugly app. No thank you!
     
  4. +48V

    +48V hi-fi or die

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    You preachin' to the choir brother. Thanks for clearing up that price is not the only reason you personally don't like Tidal.
     
  5. uofmtiger

    uofmtiger Super Member

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    I mentioned the other reasons I prefer AM in the paragraph you snipped. However, I think the price of their lossless tier is too punitive for most.
     
  6. Wildcat

    Wildcat Spring ain't here... Subscriber

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    The way I play music, Tidal's interface (aside from being slapped with a rap opening screen) is fine. I search for the artist I want, I tap the "Albums" underneath the artist, and the albums are listed there for my choosing. Simple and direct. That is pretty much how I use JRiver, in fact. Find artist, find album, click Play. Done. Don't care for the grey on black interface, but I'm not subscribing to look at it--I'm subscribing to listen. ;)

    As for the cost of lossless Tidal...what's a new CD cost these days? For the cost of less than two new CDs, I can listen to unlimited albums I don't own for $20. A steal, if you ask me. If Tidal shutters and another streaming company can get me lossless at the same price, I'd be perfectly happy. It's a great, inexpensive supplement to what I own already. Their selection isn't the greatest, but none of them properly cover what I listen to anyway.

    The rap thing for me is a minor annoyance, but to some of the snobby audiophiles out there, it is beneath them to see a rap artist on a service they want to use. For a site that is pushing the flailing MQA format, it's a screwy way of putting a good impression on everyone who is interested in what they offer.

    If I want background music and I'm busy, it's usually one of my custom-trained Pandora stations (which I have tweaked for several years), or a stream via the TuneIn Radio app. I'll occasionally queue up a few albums but if I'm busy and can't tend to things easily, endless music is a better bet. I used to do that even back when FM radio was still listenable (locally, at least). I could put one of our good stations on and run it for hours in the background. But in times I am sitting down and can control the player (working at the computer, listening during the evenings, etc.), it's always album listening, largely from my server, but occasionally lossless Tidal for albums I don't have.
     
  7. Alobar

    Alobar Pulling out of the Last Chance Texaco.. Subscriber

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    With the exception of one or two I haven't sat down and listened to an album in it's entirety in a very long time. Even back in the 70s when vinyl was about it, I was constantly queuing up something new all the time. I even had one of those accutracks for a time to make that easiet but now, it's random everything. Like I said, I'm different, probably why although I'm still looking I have not found a streaming company that is a good fit for what I want.
     
  8. uofmtiger

    uofmtiger Super Member

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    The issue is that companies like Spotify and Apple Music not only allow you to search for albums, which is great when you know exactly what you want to hear, but add suggestions built around your taste that help you find new music. Being slapped in the face with rap every time you log in is only part of the problem

    It is hard to compare with CD purchases because at the end of the day, you possess them and you don't have to continue paying to listen to them. In other words, that $20 buys you the ability to listen to "unlimited" (though there are still only 24 hours in day to listen) albums for one month. Next month, you have zero albums available if you stop paying, while the person with the CDs can listen to them forever without paying again.

    I prefer streaming, but there is still an argument for physical media for people that don't listen to a lot of new albums. That being said, when you compare them to the other on demand streaming services, their app is not in the same league. They don't get packaged with Youtube Red or get the benefit of working with Home products. They don't have the ability to be controlled by Siri or have the benefits of being in Apple's ecosystem. Or in the case of Spotify, Tidal isn't built into as many devices and it doesn't have features like Spotify Connect and it isn't available on the Echo. In other words, the cost of getting lossless is already double that of the others that have high bit rate compression, but their app and services has many other shortfalls. The lossless tier is a hard sell to a lot of people because of its price and their service that is priced in the same way as Spotify has the numerous shortfalls I mentioned. It will be an uphill battle for Tidal in this market.

    I am not saying that lossless won't be worth the sacrifices I mentioned for some audiophiles, I just don't think the audiophile market is big enough to make it a long term viable business.
     
  9. Alobar

    Alobar Pulling out of the Last Chance Texaco.. Subscriber

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    Well put!

    Different listeners have different requirements. Obviously there are those who are always looking for new music, and those will make the best use of streaming's vast vault of 40,000,000 tracks.

    Then there are those who don't want always something new, but slowly build on what they already have. They may listen to the some tracks over and over, dozens of times. I then see it as renting versus buying. Sometimes renting makes sense, sometimes not. For me it doesn't other than for discovery. Storage being so inexpensive now it is more true for me than ever.

    One question I ask myself, considering how difficult it seems for me to find new music I actually like, how many tracks out there of that 40 million would I want to listen to, and if it is 10% of that how does one go about finding it?

    Seems like the old Pandora did a fair job of figuring me out but didn't like me hitting the next button of thumb's down too much. That was my first try with streaming and i might go back and give them one more try. Right now I am using Google's service and I liked how it asked me with a series of checked boxes what I liked, and I put a ton of answers in there but it hasn't given me any new material based on all that.
     
  10. uofmtiger

    uofmtiger Super Member

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    I like the For You section on Apple Music and I expect it might get better with the Shazam purchase.

    People have different priorities. Mine has a lot to do with Siri control since I use it on the road and at work so often. However, I also like Apple's For You section and the fact that they have a matched version of most of my own library. It is the combination of those factors. Also, Apple Music has a lot of Mastered for iTunes tracks, which can sound better than a lossless version of an album with a bad master. If Apple had lossless/high resolution versions of those masters (they typically use a 24 bit file to create them, from my understanding), it would be ideal, but like I mentioned above, that is a small subset of users and is currently not a priority for them. That may change if Spotify ever brings lossless out of beta, but we will have to wait and see.
     
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  11. chicks

    chicks Lunatic Member

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    Gotta admit, the personalization in AM is pretty slick. And they don’t force Rap down my throat every time I open the app. If they would add direct casting to Sonos (as Tidal and Pandora have done), or voice control via a Dot-like device or Sonos One (like Amazon, Google Music and Pandora), I’d switch in a heartbeat. I expect at least part of my wishlist to be granted this year, so...
     
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  12. botrytis

    botrytis Trying not to be a Small Speaker Hoarder Subscriber

    Well, we will see what Qobuz coming to the US and NA will do to Tidal.
     
  13. Wildcat

    Wildcat Spring ain't here... Subscriber

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    In terms of on-demand listening, I haven't really found one either, to be honest. I want lossless, even high-res if possible (without MQA's meddling), so that rules out everything except Tidal and Qobuz. The latter is not here in the US yet, but I could easily stream via a VPN if I had to. If Tidal's interface were simpler, where I could simply input what I'm searching for, or reach my favorites or bookmarks with one click, I'd be happy. These streaming services clutter up their main areas like Yahoo's main page; I want something simple like the Google search page instead. (For lack of a better example.)

    I have subscribed to Pandora for several years now--Pandora Plus subscribers get unlimited thumbs down/skip abilities daily (but are limited to six per hour for licensing reasons), and there is the added ability to replay some tracks now as well. Free Pandora accounts I believe may only skip twelve per day total. Pandora Premium adds on-demand listening (songs, albums, artists), custom playlists, etc., but is $9.99/month, which puts it right at the level of other streaming services.

    Pandora probably figured out your likes due to the Music Genome Project they based it on. For me, it might take a few weeks for a station to settle in to where I want it, but in the end it's well worth it. My latest creation is a 70s Soul station. It kept trying to sneak in much newer music (which I strongly dislike), or dump in some of that repetitive 60s Motown music (which I also could do without). But a split second of tapping ":thumbsdown:" every so often is all it takes. It's been cool not only for digging up songs I'd never heard before, it also brings back some old favorites I heard on radio that were never identified by the DJs. Hearing "(Not Just) Knee Deep" (Funkadelic) made my day a few months ago...and it was the 15 minute version, no less. :D Just like I remember it.

    Aside from Pandora, I use streaming Internet radio for discovery. That's all I need.
     
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  14. Wildcat

    Wildcat Spring ain't here... Subscriber

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    As much of a fan of MQA as I know you are (same as myself) ;) , I would think if one goes away, the other would be severely crippled...
     
  15. botrytis

    botrytis Trying not to be a Small Speaker Hoarder Subscriber

    Qobuz has a huge following in the EU and Russia. Their high res is the exact same high res you can buy from the labels, unlike the MQA stuff.
     
  16. Alobar

    Alobar Pulling out of the Last Chance Texaco.. Subscriber

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    Of all the streaming interfaces I have tried, Google seems to have the most straight forward easy to search one. Just seems intuitive. However they all lack most of the playlist features I have become used to with JRiver. I am waiting for the day when I will be able to subscribe to a streaming company (don't care which) that will allow me to stream it seamlessly through JRiver so I can make full use of metadata to create playlists with. Having JR's volume leveling, DSP studio, easy to use database filters to set up lists would be a dream! I am aware of Roon, and possibly it will be something I pony up to but it is expensive for one, and subscription for another, 2 things I am not wild about. Another is it has its wagon hitched to Tidal, which may or may not be around down the road.
     
  17. Alobar

    Alobar Pulling out of the Last Chance Texaco.. Subscriber

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    I'm sure I will be giving them a try as well! All these free offres you know!
     
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  18. Wildcat

    Wildcat Spring ain't here... Subscriber

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    I actually meant if one (Tidal) goes away, the other (*cough* MQA *cough*) would be crippled. Wot a shame. :D

    I've seen/used Qobuz before, so being able to stream that from NA would definitely be a plus. A few times, I found their download (purchase) prices to be lower than the usual suspects here in the US. Plus, there are a couple of EU-only releases I can buy from Qobuz, as long as use a VPN so I appear to be in their service area, and use PayPal (so I don't have to give an address).
     
  19. lizard84

    lizard84 Abider

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    Deezer also agreed to start streaming MQA content although no timeline has been given.
     

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