It's Just A Power Cord...

Discussion in 'The Cutting Edge' started by Gents, Nov 9, 2017.

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  1. osageaudio

    osageaudio Active Member

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    Hi Vintage999,

    That's is the primary reason for that, and it applies to all cables, but there are also some other things going on, depending upon how the cables are constructed.

    Note what I wrote about why people may not hear any differences. You and I may well be operating from a completely different vantage point. In many cases I know we are. Of course there are people on this and all hi-fi forums that are just out to have an argument. But I can tell you that I've seen many systems over the years that were set up in such a way as to cause cables, amplifiers, and other components being changed not result in a change in the sound.

    Happy listening.
     

     

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  2. sKiZo

    sKiZo Hates received: 8641 Subscriber

    [​IMG]

    PS - this IS the room for arguments! ;-}
     
  3. SoCal Sam

    SoCal Sam Lunatic Member

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    Program signal never sees the power cable. Ever. It's an inconvenient fact when trying to explain how power cables affect sound.
     
  4. MurrayLives

    MurrayLives Born to lose, live to win Subscriber

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    And that may be, but the Cutting Edge sub-forum isn’t the place for another cable argument (spelled out in the forum rules).
     
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  5. osageaudio

    osageaudio Active Member

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    Hi MurrayLives,

    He's been warned about that before, but he appears to have an uncontrollable urge to make spiteful comments on this forum.

    But I think we should pity a little dude who it seems has nothing else to do but this. Can you imagine how sad a life that must be? The humane thing to do is try to make him feel welcome here. If we can find out who he is and where he lives we should all probably chip in and make sure he has a nice and cozy Thanksgiving. I think that would make everyone feel better.

    Happy listening.
     
  6. audiotemp

    audiotemp Active Member

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    "Quantum Tunneling is a process that changes the way a cable conducts signal at the subatomic level, affecting the entire cable assembly: connectors (RCA, XLR, spade, or banana), solder joints, dielectric, and signal & ground conductors are all transformed and integrated as a single unit. By applying a two million volt signal to a cable at a specific pulse modulation, and ultra high frequency for an exact duration of time, we transform the entire cable at a molecular level through a process we call Quantum Tunneling. The before and after is startling, with a lower noise floor and improvements in inner detail, air, low frequency extension, and overall transparency and signal speed."

    You guys crack me up.
     
  7. osageaudio

    osageaudio Active Member

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    Hi Audiotemp,

    I'm not sure if you posted here to discuss or to make a smart aleck remark, but I'll assume for now that you came to discuss. I've never seen what you quoted there before. Can you tell us where you found that? If you quote something from a website you're legally supposed to credit the quote anyway, so you may as well.

    Having had knowledge of quantum tunneling for a few decades now, what you quoted doesn't look like what the process actually is. I'd like to know who made that statement. It didn't come from any of the physicists or electrical engineers that I know who are involved in making wire conductors or people with those backgrounds who make hi-fi cables.

    Just as with anything, there are hangers-on trying to make money in a legitimate field that they are qualified to work in. I've worked in a number of industries over the past 45 years, including industries that were involved in electrical conduction, and I've seen that everywhere.

    So hopefully you can fill us all in on where you found the quoted material.

    Happy listening.
     
  8. audiotemp

    audiotemp Active Member

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    432
    I don't disparage other people's interests, preferences, or opinions. I see no reason to think that I know better than OP what he likes or what works for him in his system. Explanations for how things work, however, are subject to being right or wrong.

    I don't know how the physical concept of quantum tunneling has any relevance to use, design, construction, or performance of power cords. If you have something that reliably suggests otherwise, I will be happy to take a look at it.

    The source of my quote above can be easily found if you google the first part of the quote, like this,
    https://www.google.com/search?q="Qu...that+changes+the+way+a+cable+conducts+signal"

    I did omit one sentence, deep in the quote, that referred to specific products (which I felt were unnecessary to include into this discussion). I found that quote (and nothing better) by initially searching "quantum tunneling" and "power cord," like this, https://www.google.com/search?q="Quantum+Tunneling"+"power+cord"

    [edit: I had some issues with the search links but they are OK now]
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
  9. osageaudio

    osageaudio Active Member

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    Hi Audiotemp,

    Thanks for the information. I had never read that about SR. I plan to call the engineer there, who is a Ph.D physicist, and see what I can find out. We don't carry that brand and I don't recall ever owning any of their cables.

    But I am familiar with most of the other reputable brands out there and they make no such claims, and will offer detailed explanations of what they do and why when you call and talk to them.

    I think some people don't know how "hi-end" hi-fi cable were born. Knowing that puts some things into better perspective. It started with RCA interconnect cables that were made from wire that had been specified for use in the space shuttle program. A couple of electrical engineers at JPL built the cables from this wire, tried the cable out, loaned them to friends, and everything thought they improved the resolution and soundstage. It's important to note that none of their friends knew what they were listening to at this point. They weren't led to expect anything.

    As the industry went on, the specifications of that original wire were the basis for many of the new products that came on the market. And you have to keep in mind that the hi-fi cable companies don't make their own wire. They buy it from wire makers that most here would be familiar with, but to different specifications than what people can normally buy. In other words, the wire is designed by the engineers at the wire company to meet the requirements of the hi-fi cable company, and that specific wire design is then only available to that particular hi-fi cable company.

    But there are hi-fi cable manufacturers who use off the shelf wire and don't do anything with it other than add connectors and shrink tube.

    The whole quantum tunneling thing was known back then in the early 1980s, both by the wire manufacturers and then the hi-fi cable people. Personally, I've never seen it explained quite like what is in the information that you found. What I've been taught is that the engineers at the wire manufacturing companies design the conductors and insulating jackets in such away as to allow the process to take place. It takes a period of time for this to happen, but I don't necessarily buy the 200 hour thing. Maybe it takes that long, but the primary audible changes take place much sooner than that in my experience. And I've seen cable test output graphics that show changes after 10 and 50 hours. I've never seen anything that was a test beyond that.

    For the consumer, the best thing to do is borrow cables from dealers and try them yourself. If you do hear any difference you may not like it. Almost every dealer has cables to loan out. And it certainly makes an difference more audible with a well setup system, as I mentioned on page 1 of this discussion. You won't hear any difference in soundstage depth if your speakers aren't set up in such a way that would allow them to do that to begin with.

    So the cables are part of a system, not a cure-all or magic potion to cause drastic improvement in anything. Think of them that way, try things that you can afford, and be happy with what you end up with.

    Happy listening.
     
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  10. onwardjames

    onwardjames Hoardimus Maximus Subscriber

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    I've been on hundreds of threads like this in my 13 years with Audiokarma. They never end well.

    I guess that if I have to understand "quantum tunneling" then I'll just be happy with what I have. It's all way above my pay grade.

    You all have fun with this. I'm reading, and attempting to understand.
     
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  11. osageaudio

    osageaudio Active Member

    Messages:
    239
    Hi Onwardjames,

    Read what I posted again. You don't have to know anything about quantum tunneling. If you have an interest or curiosity about trying different cables, decide what you can afford if you want to buy and then contact a dealer for those and get some loaners. It's as simple as that.

    People who understand quantum tunneling typically spend eight years in college and get a physics degree. That counts most of us out.

    By the way, I have a lot if in-law relatives in your part of the country. It's a nice place.

    Happy listening.
     
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  12. Tim64

    Tim64 Well-Known Member

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  13. SoCal Sam

    SoCal Sam Lunatic Member

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    Uh, OK. No one has ever answered how power cables affect sound. I am open to your answer, if there is one. Instead, you reply with this??
     
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  14. biscuithead

    biscuithead Me likes the eargasm retroplasm... Subscriber

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    Are you serious ? We are talking about the cable that plugs into the wall, and delivers the simple 120v to the unit, right? I apologize if I sound incredulous, but I am.
     
  15. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Smart Ass Sponsor Subscriber

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    Dead Horse, and challenging of a debate
    Dead Horse, and challenging of a debate

    Dead Horse, and publicly dismissing a member

    The Cutting Edge/Thinking Out Loud:

    OVERVIEW

    This is where you come when you are done debating the validity of controversial topics and are focused on the goal of getting your system to function at its highest capability.

    THE RULES:

    1. Discussion is to be limited to problem-solving and goal reaching. General theory questions are welcome, but please let everyone know why it's on your mind.
    2. You must respect people you don’t agree with and allow them to have their own views. This forum is not a place to challenge people to provide proof or to publicly dismiss them for lack of proof.
    3. Thread craps will not be tolerated. What constitutes a thread crap in specific cases will be at the discretion of the moderation staff. (We will all use rules 1 and 2 for guidance)

    What we will be doing:

    • In addition to the usual matters of sources, amplification and speakers, we will also be discussing all aspects of system building from your breaker panel through to the room you listen in.
    • ‘All aspects’ of system building includes cables, tweaks, even components like capacitors – the focus is on squeezing the best out of what we have with the blinders off.
    • We will be supporting each other’s efforts in a constructive and helpful way.

    What we won’t be doing:

    • We will not be debating “dead horse” topics.
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    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
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  16. MurrayLives

    MurrayLives Born to lose, live to win Subscriber

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    Exactly. Does nobody read the forum rules stickies? Every other thread about cables turns into a locked dumpster fire FFS. Even if I don’t agree about cables, I still want to read what people who do agree think without wading through the same crap.

    There’ll be plenty of other threads to beat the same dead horses in.
     
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  17. dosmalo

    dosmalo T-Totaled Subscriber

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    And what poor, dead nags they'll be.
     

     

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  18. Mister Pig

    Mister Pig Pigamus Maximus Subscriber

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    Not exactly. Mine plug into a PS Audio P10.

    Regards
    Mister Pig
     
  19. datafone

    datafone Super Member

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    Your previous posts indicate the opposite, they suggest you are not open to any other perspective on the subject.
     
  20. ehoove

    ehoove Old & New - Carpe Diem Staff Member Super Mod Subscriber

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    with personal attacks etc. another cable thread goes down the toilet. This is the cutting edge forum folks! Thread Closed!
    Regards,
    Jim
     
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