Jico/EVG importers for Europe

[Decibel_116]

Didn't get anything yet, I'm only just going to place an order... Probably in two or three days from now From what you wrote, I assumed it was Jico, because they only wrote "Thakker Japan" on their website. Speaking of Shure, I recently had a bad experience with "Stylus Plus" from UK, when they shipped me generic N 92/N 99E replacement under the name of "N 104E" which was the one I wanted to buy in the first place.


As you can see from the pic above, these two are completely identical... First one came as generic "N 92E" replacement & was bought some time in February (and it is the one I'm currently using), where on the other hand, the right one was advertised as N 104E, but ended up being the same. Which is why I'm through with unknown "generics" & decided to play it safe for upcoming N 75ED/T2.

I'm not sure I understand the concern here. I would think a generic replacement for a Shure N92E, N99E, and N104E would be the same. Although the OEM styli are different from one another (tip size/cut), the EVG generics all have the same .3 x .7 bonded stone and aluminum cantilever. The only thing different is the grip color (red, blue, yellow) for the EVGs in my experience. They both look like Jico sourced EVG items to me (with the dot on the cantilever). There has been discussion about the Jico sourced EVG Shure replacement not having the tie wire installed whereas the Jico branded ones have the tie wire like the original Shures have. Not sure if the Pfanstiels or Tonars have the tie wire. I did a direct comparison of a Pfanstiel sourced N91ED with a Jico-sourced EVG N91ED and found I much preferred the EVG - even without the tie wire. YMMV

 

[johnjhazel]

The .nl company does not even mention brand names that I saw. I know which company I would deal with.

 

[johnjhazel]

I'm not sure I understand the concern here. I would think a generic replacement for a Shure N92E, N99E, and N104E would be the same. Although the OEM styli are different from one another (tip size/cut), the EVG generics all have the same .3 x .7 bonded stone and aluminum cantilever. The only thing different is the grip color (red, blue, yellow) for the EVGs in my experience. They both look like Jico sourced EVG items to me (with the dot on the cantilever). There has been discussion about the Jico sourced EVG Shure replacement not having the tie wire installed whereas the Jico branded ones have the tie wire like the original Shures have. Not sure if the Pfanstiels or Tonars have the tie wire. I did a direct comparison of a Pfanstiel sourced N91ED with a Jico-sourced EVG N91ED and found I much preferred the EVG - even without the tie wire. YMMV

Therein lies the problem. Many people preferred JICO sourced EVG's. Current EVG's are Swiss sourced. All of those EVG customers found other sources for JICO sourced such as Tonar.

 

[boreas]

In Dutch pickupnaald means phonograph needle. Pickupnaalden means phonograph needles, plural. So the names are pretty generic without any implied association. Same with the email addresses, very generic.

 

[johnjhazel]

There are some Canadian sellers on eBay who sell Tonar at below 'suggested' prices. Pretty good deals.

 

[Trekkie4]

I'm not sure I understand the concern here. I would think a generic replacement for a Shure N92E, N99E, and N104E would be the same. Although the OEM styli are different from one another (tip size/cut), the EVG generics all have the same .3 x .7 bonded stone and aluminum cantilever. The only thing different is the grip color (red, blue, yellow) for the EVGs in my experience. They both look like Jico sourced EVG items to me (with the dot on the cantilever). There has been discussion about the Jico sourced EVG Shure replacement not having the tie wire installed whereas the Jico branded ones have the tie wire like the original Shures have. Not sure if the Pfanstiels or Tonars have the tie wire. I did a direct comparison of a Pfanstiel sourced N91ED with a Jico-sourced EVG N91ED and found I much preferred the EVG - even without the tie wire. YMMV

I would have to disagree... The first one (left stylus) came labeled as "N 92E" from the local HiFi store, which to my understanding translates to 0.4x0.7mil elliptical tip, with the frequency response of up to 18,000Hz. "N 99E" would be something in the middle, with smaller 0.2x0.7mil tip and the frequency response up to 20,000Hz. "N 104E" on the other hand should have also been 0.2x0.7mil tip, with identical 0.2x0.7mil tip, but with better channel separation.

With that being said, yes I KNOW generic styli won't have the same specifications as original ones, although I expected it to at least resemble the original one. I'm referring to specs & performance obviously, not visually in the terms of color & external markings, although having more details on these would sure come in handy for the sake of comparison. Because from all I know, they sent me another "N92" replacement, instead of more superior model.

There's also an issue with the price difference ... "N 104E" is sold for 25GBP/32USD. However, "Stylus Plus" also has "N 92E" which is CHEAPER & goes for 15GBP/19USD So, therefore - if ALL of the generics are technically the same, why did I have to pay additional 10GBP/13USD for the "N104 E"?

 

[Decibel_116]

I would have to disagree... The first one (left stylus) came labeled as "N 92E" from the local HiFi store, which to my understanding translates to 0.4x0.7mil elliptical tip, with the frequency response of up to 18,000Hz. "N 99E" would be something in the middle, with smaller 0.2x0.7mil tip and the frequency response up to 20,000Hz. "N 104E" on the other hand should have also been 0.2x0.7mil tip, with identical 0.2x0.7mil tip, but with better channel separation.

With that being said, yes I KNOW generic styli won't have the same specifications as original ones, although I expected it to at least resemble the original one. I'm referring to specs & performance obviously, not visually in the terms of color & external markings, although having more details on these would sure come in handy for the sake of comparison. Because from all I know, they sent me another "N92" replacement, instead of more superior model.

There's also an issue with the price difference ... "N 104E" is sold for 25GBP/32USD. However, "Stylus Plus" also has "N 92E" which is CHEAPER & goes for 15GBP/19USD So, therefore - if ALL of the generics are technically the same, why did I have to pay additional 10GBP/13USD for the "N104 E"?

I've bought plenty of EVG Jico-made Shure styli over the last 6 years. The ones I purchased were absolutely identical with the exception of grip color. Maybe your experience is different. As far as I know, all of the Jico made EVG styli for Shure elliptical styli replacement are the same .3 x .7 stone with the same cantilever. I wish I had kept the email to Jico a few years back where I asked that question. I understand they are sold under different model numbers.

Some of the Pfanstiel styli claim to be .2 x .7 mil. The Jico made EVGs are all .3 x .7 bonded unless something has changed.

 

[Trekkie4]

I've bought plenty of EVG Jico-made Shure styli over the last 6 years. The ones I purchased were absolutely identical with the exception of grip color. Maybe your experience is different. As far as I know, all of the Jico made EVG styli for Shure elliptical styli replacement are the same .3 x .7 stone with the same cantilever. I wish I had kept the email to Jico a few years back where I asked that question. I understand they are sold under different model numbers.

Some of the Pfanstiel styli claim to be .2 x .7 mil. The Jico made EVGs are all .3 x .7 bonded unless something has changed.

I can tell you that's it's most definitely not .2x.7 tip, that much I know for sure. It could be .3, or even .4, but that's just the thing... There's absolutely no information on these, whatsoever! In fact, the only way to find out what's going on would be to place one of these under the microscope (which I don't have), sooo ... *shrug*

I also noticed something interesting... Not sure if this makes any difference, but those two styli in the picture are not identical, even though they might appear at first glance. If you take a closer look at the brass magnet/suspension housing, you will see that the left one doesn't have a small hole, cutout and the other, right one does. They both sound decent, I'm not saying otherwise. But I had the original M 104E with its factory pre-installed N 104E for over 10yrs, so I know what the genuine 0.2x0.7 stylus has to sound & behave like.

Which is why I said so, I'm through with generics unless they have specific details on tip size, and/or frequency response. Which is the case with Japanese-made N75 ED/T2 for example. It's far from genuine Shure stylus, but at least I know what I'm paying money for

 

[Decibel_116]

I would have to disagree... The first one (left stylus) came labeled as "N 92E" from the local HiFi store, which to my understanding translates to 0.4x0.7mil elliptical tip, with the frequency response of up to 18,000Hz. "N 99E" would be something in the middle, with smaller 0.2x0.7mil tip and the frequency response up to 20,000Hz. "N 104E" on the other hand should have also been 0.2x0.7mil tip, with identical 0.2x0.7mil tip, but with better channel separation.

With that being said, yes I KNOW generic styli won't have the same specifications as original ones, although I expected it to at least resemble the original one. I'm referring to specs & performance obviously, not visually in the terms of color & external markings, although having more details on these would sure come in handy for the sake of comparison. Because from all I know, they sent me another "N92" replacement, instead of more superior model.

There's also an issue with the price difference ... "N 104E" is sold for 25GBP/32USD. However, "Stylus Plus" also has "N 92E" which is CHEAPER & goes for 15GBP/19USD So, therefore - if ALL of the generics are technically the same, why did I have to pay additional 10GBP/13USD for the "N104 E"?

I've bought plenty of EVG Jico-made Shure styli over the last 6 years. The ones I purchased were absolutely identical with the exception of grip color. Maybe your experience is different. As far as I know, all of the Jico made EVG styli for Shure elliptical styli replacement are the same .3 x .7 stone with the same cantilever. I wish I had kept the email to Jico a few years back where I asked that question. I understand they are sold under different model numbers.

Some of the Pfanstiel styli claim to be .2 x .7 mil. The Jico made EVGs are all .3 x .7 bonded unless something has changed.

I can tell you that's it's most definitely not .2x.7 tip, that much I know for sure. It could be .3, or even .4, but that's just the thing... There's absolutely no information on these, whatsoever! In fact, the only way to find out what's going on would be to place one of these under the microscope (which I don't have), sooo ... *shrug*

I also noticed something interesting... Not sure if this makes any difference, but those two styli in the picture are not identical, even though they might appear at first glance. If you take a closer look at the brass magnet/suspension housing, you will see that the left one doesn't have a small hole, cutout and the other, right one does. They both sound decent, I'm not saying otherwise. But I had the original M 104E with its factory pre-installed N 104E for over 10yrs, so I know what the genuine 0.2x0.7 stylus has to sound & behave like.

Which is why I said so, I'm through with generics unless they have specific details on tip size, and/or frequency response. Which is the case with Japanese-made N75 ED/T2 for example. It's far from genuine Shure stylus, but at least I know what I'm paying money for

You make an excellent point when it comes to product specifications. I would not have known the Jico elliptical specs without emailing them and asking the question. It would be nice for all of the generic styli to come with with some documentation explaining at least some basic specifications. We can wish.

 

[johnjhazel]

I will have a long email to EVG tomorrow and I will again mention specifying the tip size. Pfanstiehl is great at package info.

 

[johnjhazel]

Don't think so. Pickupnaalden.com is in Fluitenberg, run by, as you said, a guy named Fred Caras. Pickupnaald.nl is almost 200 km away in Bergen. It's run by a guy named Niko de Graaf. Also different inventory.

You are correct. Fred said the .com is his and .nl is a competitor.

 

[revox-b77]

2 quick points to add. EVG N104E is exactly the same cantilever and stone as EVG N91E I have both.
Tonar styli do not have a tie wire. Specifically speaking for the N91 anyway.

 

[Trekkie4]

I've done some Googling, trying to find more information on these blue N92, N99 "generics" & came up with interesting results.

Apparently most of them are indeed .4 x .7mil tips, with only several (Japanese-made) actually being .3 x .7, what @Decibel_116 said. So, with that being said - think I finally know what's going on. The left stylus, the one I'm currently using is most probably 0.4mil tip, and the other one, on the right is most likely 0.3 one. This would also help explain why "Stylus Plus" listed N 99E as more expensive model than N 92E, because of the better finish ... either that, or they are scamming people, which (judging by their history & previous experience from other customers) wouldn't surprise me.

But I had the original M 104E with its factory pre-installed N 104E for over 10yrs, so I know what the genuine 0.2x0.7 stylus has to sound & behave like.

I also need to correct myself, as I got these models all mixed up. The one I owned was & is M 94E (basically M 97xE without the brush stabilizer) and it had its original N 94E for over 10yrs before the suspension fell apart. For what it's worth, it was a great cart, probably the best one I ever had

 

[Solist]

Ok, what about Nagaoka needles? Their cartridges and especially the cantilevers/styluses are often considered very good value for money and they make everything in house which is something that I surely appreciate.

 

[Jelloalien1]

Ok, what about Nagaoka needles? Their cartridges and especially the cantilevers/styluses are often considered very good value for money and they make everything in house which is something that I surely appreciate.

What about them specifically? Nagaoka makes fantastic carts (albiet they can be pricey, ordering some nagaoka items direct from Japan online, if that meets your comfort level, can save some cash). The styli are interchangeable, and the mp110 is an entry level bit of awesomeness

I'm currently running a MP50 (vintage mp500) and absolutely love it. So warm, musical, and detailed. Everything i want in a MM cart

John is right on the Tonar tip too, mostly jico sourced....

 

[Solist]

I have seen on ebay a seller selling what he claims to be nagaoka replacement styluses for shure carts. Never seen those and there is little info (not even compliance specs) which makes me doubt the whole thing. Could not find any information on nagaoka site in regard to manufacturing styluses for different brands.

I was considering the nagaoka range of cartridges, but since I already have a shure body I might as well use it and spend the rest on records

 

[johnjhazel]

Has anyone tried the Swiss EVG 4606-DEX? I would assume it's the same as the Pfanstiehl 4606-DEG or 4608-DEX, but you never know. The Swiss manufacturer might have changed the suspension or something so that the stylus actually works within the specified original tracking force. If so, that would be a good thing. If I'm telling someone that I retipped their cartridge with an elliptical stylus, there'd better damned be an elliptical stylus on there when I'm done.

Regarding specs, though, if you don't have a microscope you won't really be certain of what you got. I recently sent back an order of .2 x .7 elliptical styli (not Pfanstiehl) to the seller because when I popped them under the scope, this is what I saw (nothing but conical). It sounded great. The seller said that he'd sold thousands and no one had ever complained. I'm not sure who marked the package as .2 x .7, but I presume the seller. I'm not sure who is responsible for the mix up, but even though they sounded great I returned them for a refund.

View attachment 1259452 View attachment 1259453

Here are a couple Pfanstiehl .2 x .7 Elliptical:

View attachment 1259460View attachment 1259461

Some other recent bonded tips for comparison as to quality:

View attachment 1259457 View attachment 1259456 View attachment 1259455

The EVG/Swiss '4606-DEX'(Pfanstiehl model number) is EVG model PM4052DE. Tracking force on package is 0.5 - 2.0 grams.
I have a brand new(as in just produced) EVG PM4036DE (D400/606-DEM) which sounds excellent.

 

[johnjhazel]

Where does one find Nagaoka styli? I see them here and there on eBay for random cartridges, but I’ve never found a catalog or website.

I have emailed Nagaoka and cannot get a straight answer. Done with them.

 

[johnjhazel]

I've bought plenty of EVG Jico-made Shure styli over the last 6 years. The ones I purchased were absolutely identical with the exception of grip color. Maybe your experience is different. As far as I know, all of the Jico made EVG styli for Shure elliptical styli replacement are the same .3 x .7 stone with the same cantilever. I wish I had kept the email to Jico a few years back where I asked that question. I understand they are sold under different model numbers.

Some of the Pfanstiel styli claim to be .2 x .7 mil. The Jico made EVGs are all .3 x .7 bonded unless something has changed.

Sounds absolutely correct to me. Pfanstiehl does indeed have some .2 x .7 models. Whether they will continue to do so, I do not know as tips are ordered in quantities of 5,000 and there has to be enough demand of course.

 

[Jelloalien1]

Where does one find Nagaoka styli? I see them here and there on eBay for random cartridges, but I’ve never found a catalog or website.

I'm hooked up with a nagaoka distributor in Canada, mostly the MP-Series styli i can get, including some mono and 78rpm i believe. Nagaoka is a mysterious ninja though hiding in the shadows hahaha
They have a history of not advertising. i believe word of mouth is more their thing