Kappa 7 upgrade to Ren 90s.

Discussion in 'Infinity Loudspeakers' started by ernie richau, Mar 27, 2017.

  1. jazzmans

    jazzmans Super Member

    Messages:
    1,807
    Location:
    devils playground, NV
    making the speakers 'match' usually means timbre or db matching, or both. It means an extra step was taken on/after the construction of these speakers to make sure they 'voice' more similarly to each other, as there are always variations in output of drivers, and crossover components.

    When in doubt, I would generally go with millersound's opinion, which complicates the entire thing.

    Are the serial numbers consecutive, or close to it?
     
    okeeteekid likes this.
  2. okeeteekid

    okeeteekid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    555
    Location:
    Northern NJ
    What I meant was that infinity added extra small caps in the xover so the speaker matched in sound quality, the caps are 10% tolerences and say one emim is 3.3 ohms and the other one was 3.5 ohms they added extra small caps to compensate for the difference in tolerences in caps and drivers, why else would they spend more money adding the exta caps?
     
  3. okeeteekid

    okeeteekid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    555
    Location:
    Northern NJ
    What Jazzmans said Lol
     
  4. ernie richau

    ernie richau AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    110
    It makes more sense to me now. My serial numbers are a bit apart and i believe this is why millersound made their recommendactions to update to the most recent serial number.

    The differences are not small caps paralleled in my case.

    I also have seen different revs of the crossover schematic. The difference is shown on them as well. Unfortunately the schematics don't have associated serial numbers.
     
  5. okeeteekid

    okeeteekid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    555
    Location:
    Northern NJ
    Do the crossovers look stock? what is the differences in the cap values?
     
  6. slimpikkins

    slimpikkins Super Member

    Messages:
    1,381
    Location:
    South East PA
    If they look original I'd just leave them and enjoy. The wire nuts would trouble me as that was not original. I don't see enough of the xo to know what else is on the board. They may used different resistors and/or chokes to make them "match". If they sound the same maybe just close them up and enjoy. The crossovers are not that old and I bet every cap on that board is just fine.
     
    okeeteekid likes this.
  7. C6Bill

    C6Bill AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,100
    Location:
    Hanson MA
    Funny you mention this, today I upgraded to a MC402 to drive my Kappa 9's. They really like the power, I have them on the 4 Ohm tap

    IMG_2627.jpg
     
    Bahamayellow and okeeteekid like this.
  8. ernie richau

    ernie richau AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    110
    The crossovers are original. I have verified all the components as the same except the caps. I have also verified through millersound and others on this site there were mods by infinity to the crossover caps.

    The speakers were built in 1991 and the caps are dated the same. Makes them about 26 years old. I want to replace them because of the big improvement I got when I replaced the kappa 7 caps. I believe those speakers were built about 1988 so those caps would have been about 3 years older.

    I will be sure to save the old ones just in case I don't like what I hear. By the way they do sound fantastic now that I have sorted out the positioning.
     
  9. ernie richau

    ernie richau AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    110
    After going back and forth on the taps of my 2205 I have settled on the 4 ohm tap. Using a dB meter they produce about 4 more dB on the 4 ohm tap vs the 2. At first I thought the bass was better on the 2 but after testing it's the same. The 4 ohm tap just produces more volume. The mids and highs sound the same as well.

    About your 402. I have been talking with derek at audio classics about one. Today when I called he said it had sold. I'm still trying to decide if I should stay vintage or more to new equipment. My c30 is currently in for some work right now. I guess the best thing to do is wait to see how things are when I get it back.
     
  10. C6Bill

    C6Bill AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,100
    Location:
    Hanson MA
    Sorry about that, it was sold because I bought it :)

    My MC7270 power switch broke on Sunday so I called Ryan Monday morning. The difference in the Kappas is night and day, they really do need that power to sing.
     
  11. okeeteekid

    okeeteekid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    555
    Location:
    Northern NJ
    Just because you put better caps in them doesn't mean it will sound better, infinity has an anechoic testing chamber, computer design, special testing equipment, noise generators, professional speaker engineers/designers that also do the final tweaking of the speaker by ear.

    Infinity spent countless hours and money choosing the right caps that enhanced the drivers sound qualities so that the speaker would have good timber be coherent and measure flat.

    There is absolutely no way the average guy or even a guy with an electronics background can slip in new caps and claim the speaker sounds better than what infinity did because you don't have the tools or anechoic room that infinity had to measure/test it.

    in stock form you hear the speaker as a whole, drivers blending together smoothly, once you switch the caps you will start to notice the individual drivers sticking out making their own sound because they're not blending together smoothly anymore.

    Switching caps is tricky because they all sound different for better and for worse, just because a cap is more expensive doesn't guarantee it will sound better for the application, some caps are louder than others and the list goes on.

    You might get a tad more detail because the caps are better quality but that's about it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017 at 8:02 AM
  12. ernie richau

    ernie richau AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    110
    C6bill
    Glad you are enjoying the new 402! Im sure I will find one soon enough.

    Okee, you have a very good point. My goal was to replace the old electrolytic caps. There is no way to do that without some kind of electrical change occurring in the circuit. The question is can that change be detected and is it what I want.

    Right now I know there are two different crossovers and I can't hear a difference between the two speakers.
     
  13. okeeteekid

    okeeteekid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    555
    Location:
    Northern NJ
    I remember seeing a reply from Nelson pass on another forum telling a member who wanted to replace the old electrolytic caps in his amp that he wouldn't replace them if the amp is still working , I think that would apply to speakers too.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017 at 10:57 AM
  14. ernie richau

    ernie richau AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    110
    Well today I picked up a marantz 8b to go with a second system that will include my marantz 7c.

    I decided to try bi amping the 90s with the 8b on top. It is sweet. Any one else bi amping with tubes and solid state on the 90s? If so what tube amps?
     

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