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King Crimson

Discussion in 'Music Forums' started by smokinone, Oct 10, 2018.

  1. smokinone

    smokinone Active Member

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    I was just listening to King Crimson (The Best of King Crimson) for really the first time. I noticed it was Emerson, Lake and Palmer-ish. I then looked and found that Greg Lake was a member of the band, didn't have any idea but I am a ELP fan of sorts, about 5 albums worth.
    I guess really ELP is King Crimsom-ish.

    Anyway, the record I have is pretty bad as far as scratches, 2 skips on side one, and a lot of noise. This is the record I have.

    kingcrimson.jpg

    I did a search and really found nothing on this record any where. There is supposed to be a book as well, missing with my copy.

    I thought I might like to get a better copy, but found nothing on it as I said. Is this like a rarity? I just did find one on the bay with an Great Britain seller listed fairly high, but I don't know anything of the history of the band or their record values.

    If anyone has any further info on this I would be interested. I can listen to mine as there are no skips on the other 3 sides, but still pretty noisy in most of it.

    Thanks.
     

     

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  2. smokinone

    smokinone Active Member

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    Evidently this was also called "A Young Persons Guide to King Crimson" and there seems to be more information when called by the correct record name.
    Thanks
     
  3. sfox52

    sfox52 AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    My old copy of this record is indeed called "The Young Person's Guide to King Crimson". Fortunately my vinyl is in decent shape and the booklet is included. I'm sure the original issue is a collectable now.
     
  4. jnicholson14

    jnicholson14 CLUTCHING AT STRAWS Subscriber

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    I have a Japanese pressing of this one that is great sounding.
     
  5. meggy

    meggy AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Give yourself a treat and hunt down one of these (i don't mean the MFSL version - the only pic I had handy). Court Of The Crimson King is their first album.

    fullsizeoutput_422.jpeg
     
  6. Mystic

    Mystic We're all born mad

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    To cite a KC album that IMO is decidely NOT "ELP-ish". in fact there are a whole lotta KC albums circa 1969-1974 that are very unlike ELP. First, no synth, rather Mellotron; second, Robert Fripp geetar and Wetton bass -- HEAVY PROG man. The compositions @ this period of KC couldn't, IMO, be further from ELP than is possible, other than the fact each is a collection of humans playing music of some "progressive dimension", the KC material being much more aggressive in manner and tone, and not keyboard-oriented, rather guitar-bass-violin (David Cross) heavy. And then Bruford vs. Palmer: no comparison beyond 'we're both drumming here". And the jagged, asymmetry of KC's time signatures during this period (almost) defy logic. Find anything in the ELP ouvre that sounds even remotely like the albums Larks' Tongues In Aspic, Starless And Bible Black, or Red, and I'll guarantee you've accidentally stumbled onto listening to KC, not ELP, cuz ain't nuthin ELP ever released what sounds like those three KC releases.
     

     

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  7. Mystic

    Mystic We're all born mad

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    Heck, now I feel like poppin' on KC's magnificent '74 "live" performance @ Asbury Park, New Jersey. Think that's just what I'll do. For your reference:

    King Crimson
    Casino Theater
    Asbury Park, NJ
    28 June 1974

    * PROG, studio or live, don't get much angrier sounding than this performance. Ain' that right @BlindBoyGrnt?
     
  8. meggy

    meggy AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I didn't mean it was ELP-ish, I just thought since he recently discovered KC, he might like it.
     
  9. BlindBoyGrnt

    BlindBoyGrnt Nullius in verba

    The word pummel was invented to describe what that rhythm section did.
     
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  10. Mystic

    Mystic We're all born mad

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    Exactly.
     
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  11. KeninDC

    KeninDC Speedfreak Jive Subscriber

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    Nice track list on that Guide to King Crimson. Earlier version of "I Talk to the Wind." Crimson's bass player, "Boz" Burrell went on to join Bad Co. Obviously, Bad Co. is the farthest thing from King Crimson.

    @meggy is spot-on in his Court of the Crimson King recommendation. Some of its tracks are on the Guide comp, but you owe yourself a listen in the proper order. Unless you are kooky and want to hunt down original and early UK Island LPs, there are plenty of decent sounding early US LPs.
     
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  12. BlindBoyGrnt

    BlindBoyGrnt Nullius in verba

    The evolution from In the Court... to Red is amazing. Lots of personnel changes with Fripp masterminding proceedings, but where it really works is in the live material. A lot is available for download at DGMLive.
     
  13. RhythmGJ

    RhythmGJ AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Perhaps your case is slightly overstated Mystic, but yeah, other than "Prog," they are very different. ELP much more classically/technically oriented, KC more concerned with overall sound/impact/texture/mood/message. But I'm guessing the OP meant that the touchstone of Greg Lake gave him a sense of connection to ELP, a band he already knew and liked. Comparisons beyond that definitely lose viability quickly.

    Your Palmer/Bruford comparison does beg the question somewhat though; it would be interesting to hear what BB would have done with the material if there had ever been an "ELB."

    My understanding is that Fripp picked a non-musician to teach bass to from scratch to get what he wanted and wasn't getting from others; a musical Pigmallion, as it were.

    GJ
     
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  14. qdrone

    qdrone Music is my mistress

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    Steven Wilson's re mix of their catalog is impressive. If you delve into buying more vinyl look for the EG Edition imports which are half speed mastered.
    You might want to procure a copy of McDonald and Giles album,I think you will enjoy it. Both artists were members of King Crimson.
    I own this album in which you speak with the booklet and each King Crimson is different in there own way.
    My favorite King Crimson album is Islands.
    The Steven Wilson re mixes have a vast amount of extra tracks worthy of owning.
     
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  15. smokinone

    smokinone Active Member

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    As I delve into the King Crimson a little it appears the band made a lot of changes in Band members over the years. I have RED and will give it another listen, although the condition is also poor. I've just been going through my collection as I acquired an ultrasonic cleaner and cleaning all my previously cleaned records and spot listening.

    I will most likely get another copy of the Young Persons Guide as I liked most of what I heard even as nasty a copy of it that I have is. I will also look into the Court of Crimson recording.

    I am almost thinking that with changes made by the early groups, with band members etc definitely change the sound and musicality to a large degree.

    For example, I like Fleetwood Mac somewhat, but didn't think I would buy records by them...until I heard the Peter Green influence and early recordings. I really like the records of early days with Green and have picked up a couple recently.
     
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  16. qdrone

    qdrone Music is my mistress

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    King Crimson is and has always been a vehicle for Robert Fripp,where he went his bandmates followed or were replaced. Some who were replaced had their own thing to do but Fripp wanted musicians on board who had a feel for each phase he was exploring.
     
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  17. RhythmGJ

    RhythmGJ AK Subscriber Subscriber

    "Adapt and overcome."

    The whole Discipline era drum sound/rhythm section approach came about because Fripp felt that "cymbals took away all of my accents."

    GJ
     
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  18. sKiZo

    sKiZo Hates received: 8642 Subscriber

    Point of order - King Crimson predates ELP, so if anything, ELP was King Crimson-ish ... ;-}
     
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  19. AdamAnt316

    AdamAnt316 Collector of heavy things Subscriber

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    Pretty much the only thing early KC and ELP shared was Greg Lake on bass and vocals for most of the first two albums. Lake left after "In the Wake of Poseidon", the first of many major lineup changes for King Crimson. About the closest ELP ever got to KC-ish music was probably some of the heavier tracks on their first album, like "The Barbarian" or "Knife-Edge".

    I myself have been enjoying KC's albums for many years now. My particular favorites are In The Court... and Red, though I have all seven of their first studio albums on vinyl, plus Discipline and Three Of A Perfect Pair. 21st Century Schizoid Man (WHY was it left off of the Young Person's Guide??!?!?! :dunno:) has to be one of the finest debut album openers ever, setting out their stall with aplomb, and ending with what I refer to as the sound of a jazz quartet falling down a flight of stairs. I mean that as a compliment, mind you.......... :music:
    -Adam
     
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  20. maxhifi

    maxhifi AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I saw them in San Francisco in 2014, their current (as of then) incarnation sounded incredible. I have most of their albums, it's really enjoyable stuff.
     
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