Klipsch R28F Hyper-Drive Crossover Replacement Project

[moray james]

Set12: time to play with the length of your vent and re tune the cabinet a little lower. You have more bass energy now with the new and improved networks so tuning lower will not be an issue I would shoot for 3 - 4 Hz lower that will have a big impact on weight and authority. You can install a tube made from stiff craft paper it will take the form of your oblong vent without trouble and play with increasing the length. I would start with a minimum length increase of two inches and I expect that you will end up around four inches longer than stock. Just a guess but you will find out.

 

[SET12]

I built some 8" platforms to get the RF25s off the floor a bit. I fooled around by the inch to come up with that dimension. The sound stage is in a better vertical position now than t was, more like sitting in row 1 at a club and looking at the stage. I might have lost some bass from this, SET, you might have to drive over and give me your opinion.

I'll see what I can do to get away and get back to you! BTW I tried some lift with my Fortes once and I preferred them closer to the ground. A better phono or CDP, DAC could help you as well.

Set12: time to play with the length of your vent and re tune the cabinet a little lower. You have more bass energy now with the new and improved networks so tuning lower will not be an issue I would shoot for 3 - 4 Hz lower that will have a big impact on weight and authority. You can install a tube made from stiff craft paper it will take the form of your oblong vent without trouble and play with increasing the length. I would start with a minimum length increase of two inches and I expect that you will end up around four inches longer than stock. Just a guess but you will find out.

Moray, that sounds easy enough I'll have to try it out.

Thanks

SET12

 

[moray james]

Thanks Scott,

The K-Stack, that's DeanG's network offerings correct? I have seen them before, certainly some improvements to be had. But IMO nothing like what the big Air Cores give.

OK as to simpler networks and there are a few.

Here is one similar to the Forte but with a smaller LF inductor which is a substantial savings the KLF20's are a favorite of mine.
View attachment 692846
The KG5.5
View attachment 692847
The RF62 a few more parts, but I think manageable. Still I would prefer the R-28F, its simpler and sounds great.
View attachment 692850
Here is the RF3 an 8in two way, the tweeter has a lot of protection with a 4th order network, but the higher order typically doesn't sound as nice. I have wonder about the tweeters reliability. Again I would prefer the R-28Fs second order network
View attachment 692853

Here is a couple of photo's DaveC's RF25 project which uses 6.5in woofers, I have heard these and they sound great.
View attachment 692874 View attachment 692877 View attachment 692878


Thought you all might like these crazy Klipsch Jublie networks
View attachment 692870 View attachment 692871 View attachment 692872


I'll look for more later

SET12

 

[SET12]

Here is what I have for the RF35

 

[flat4]

New here guys. Just picked up a pair of these out of box for ?300.00 the pair. I am loving them and good to see i can tweak them if i so desire. set12 where do you get your parts?

 

[SET12]

New here guys. Just picked up a pair of these out of box for ?300.00 the pair. I am loving them and good to see i can tweak them if i so desire. set12 where do you get your parts?

Welcome to AK!

$300 that's a steal ;-)

I ordered Inductors from Solen of Canada and the rest of the caps and resistors from Parts Connextion. Boxes were from Digikey SpeakerTerninals are from Parts Express.

 

[moray james]

You are up early this morning SET12. I was thinking that a set of triangular shaped wings on either side of the woofers (large as the cabinet base and gone by the top of the top woofer might help enhance the bass response for very little effort and money. Simple to test with some heavy cardboard and a little duct tape. I have been looking at 2.5 way networks to help improve bass response but as you know well SET12 that ends up costing a lot if you are buying heavy gage inductors. The larger baffle would help to launch larger bass waves which will result in improved bass without the added network complexity and added parts cost of a 2.5 way network.
I agree $300.00 for a pair of floor model R28F is a very very good deal, congratulations to flat4 and welcome also, this is a great forum.

 

[flat4]

Thank you for the information and the welcome SET12. Yes i couldn't turn them down at that price. They had been there a few weeks.When i went for an HDMI cable i figured i would ask what they could do them for versus the 251ea they had them marked at. Sales guy says they are Klipsch you aren't gonna steal them from us.

After he talked to the manager and was wrapping them up for me we had a nice laugh about him saying that.Lol

 

[flat4]

MJ thank you for the welcome! I am not in the league with you guys but look forward to watching and learning about the mods you guys perform. Keep throwing out the ideas to SET12 to keep him modifying these pups.Lol I am truly loving these low cost Klipsch as is...for now

 

[flat4]

Looking like i will be looking for an open box special on center and surrounds at the encouragement of my wife. She is liking them for movies as 2 channel and i mentioned it could be better. She said go for it.

I need to find a receiver with pre outs, sub outs(that's easy) and bluetooth. Any recommendations?

 

[SET12]

Looking like i will be looking for an open box special on center and surrounds at the encouragement of my wife. She is liking them for movies as 2 channel and i mentioned it could be better. She said go for it.

I need to find a receiver with pre outs, sub outs(that's easy) and bluetooth. Any recommendations?

The speakers retailed for $900/pair when I bought mine and of course can be substantially discounted down to as low as $450/pair new in box as what I purchased mine for.

Personally I prefer 2 channel sound for home theater. Most Home Theater Receivers are IMO to poor for performance.

The money that is spent on a sub/center channel and added surrounds could be spent on the speakers networks which IMO will have a greater yield for Home Theater performance especially in the bass department not to mention a greater sense of space and better tonality especially with a good 2ch amplifier.

If your going with a home theater receiver setup with subs I don't think I would do much of anything with the networks although a large low frequency inductor may be of some benefit. But still I don't think I would do it.

SET12

 

[flat4]

Thank you SET12. Maybe i will just stay two channel and do the network mods and go from there.

 

[SET12]

Thank you SET12. Maybe i will just stay two channel and do the network mods and go from there.

Whatever amplifier you decide to use, you might think about a pair of these Transformer Volume Controls

See post #4 on this thread for what they can do for you. IMO one of the best amplifier performance enhancements I have ever experienced.

See my TVC DIY thread here http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/in...lock-transformer-volume-control-build.701689/

SET12

 

[flat4]

SET12 , could i just build my own preamp with the tvc? Set it up for biamp? They have a remote unit also?

 

[SET12]

SET12 , could i just build my own preamp with the tvc? Set it up for biamp? They have a remote unit also?

A TVC will drive two amplifiers for bi-amping with no issues. Providing they are identical. But personally IMO such an arrangement isn't necessary with a great network.

See this guys reaction. http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hug/messages/14/147282.html

Remote units typically are already built ready to go or are in partial kit form.

You might have to pay $1000 or more for a remote TVC. But I'd rather pay a $1000 then buy an active preamp with a conventional volume control. A TVC is that good!

Though I will tell you the Slagle is very, very good and better than some others out there.

For volume levels the Slagle that I have is very versatile with 1.25db steps. Steps of 2 and 3db steps are not uncommon. The 1.25db steps are great for high efficiency speakers.

And yes you could build an active pre with a TVC. But I would only if I needed the gain and most likely you won't with high efficiency speakers. Its very easy to achieve 100db levels on a few watts I'll bet you'll be surprised below.

See this sound level calculator http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

So really for me its all about quality not quantity.

SET12

 

[moray james]

Thanks Scott,

The K-Stack, that's DeanG's network offerings correct? I have seen them before, certainly some improvements to be had. But IMO nothing like what the big Air Cores give.

OK as to simpler networks and there are a few.

Here is one similar to the Forte but with a smaller LF inductor which is a substantial savings the KLF20's are a favorite of mine.
View attachment 692846
The KG5.5
View attachment 692847
The RF62 a few more parts, but I think manageable. Still I would prefer the R-28F, its simpler and sounds great.
View attachment 692850
Here is the RF3 an 8in two way, the tweeter has a lot of protection with a 4th order network, but the higher order typically doesn't sound as nice. I have wonder about the tweeters reliability. Again I would prefer the R-28Fs second order network
View attachment 692853

Here is a couple of photo's DaveC's RF25 project which uses 6.5in woofers, I have heard these and they sound great.
View attachment 692874 View attachment 692877 View attachment 692878


Thought you all might like these crazy Klipsch Jublie networks
View attachment 692870 View attachment 692871 View attachment 692872


I'll look for more later

SET12

Klipsch KLF 10 is also a great two way upgrade candidate with its simple network and powerful dual tens that can push a lot of air.
So too the Klipsch RF5 is a good two way dual eight inch woofer candidate also.

 

[SET12]

Thanks Moray!

 

[qbncgar]

Thanks Scott,

The K-Stack, that's DeanG's network offerings correct? I have seen them before, certainly some improvements to be had. But IMO nothing like what the big Air Cores give.

OK as to simpler networks and there are a few.

...

Here is the RF3 an 8in two way, the tweeter has a lot of protection with a 4th order network, but the higher order typically doesn't sound as nice. I have wonder about the tweeters reliability. Again I would prefer the R-28Fs second order network
View attachment 692853

Would you entertain a question from someone with a pair of RF3's and who has recently become more acutely aware of its shortcomings?

While I am able to see the obvious differences between the factory crossover and the one you built, I'm not expert enough to know why each of the components you selected are superior. Mainly because I don't understand what each of them are supposed to do. Can you describe for me and others like me, what each of the components does and why differences from one type to the other result in noticeable improvements in audio?

Please understand that what you've laid out is impressive, but it's also somewhat damning of the audio industry as a whole. It sounds as though a good crossover is perhaps more important than driver quality, or even amplifier quality....each of which can be hamstrung by a poor crossover. Yet these are seldom (if ever) discussed or recognized. Shouldn't better receivers have these built-in? Shouldn't loudspeaker manufacturers be spending more money on these things - even at the mid-fi level?

Thank you in advance, and thanks for the fascinating post.

 

[moray james]

if they (the manufacturers) spent this kind of money on network parts) even with volume discounts you could not aford to buy the speakers due to the increase in cost. It's just simple economics. That's why aftermarket upgrade make such good sense. Give the makers a break they have to turn a profit or they could not exist. You get exactly what you pay for and Klipsch do a good job of delivering the goods at any price point you care to choose. They do a very good job of finding the right balance to deliver the goods at an affordable price in my estimation. Remember you see just the end product and then do a mental parts count and cost but you don't see the R&D that goes into products nor the volume purchases that are necessary to get the prices down nor the huge overheads and salaries. It all adds up very quickly.

I forgot to mention the cost of advertising. It's not just about letting you know these products exist and where to find them etc. It's all about creating an image that fits with your lifestyle or the lifestyle that you aspire to. At the end of the day the margins are not fat. Klipsch offer you the opportunity to purchase very good quality components which I find respond very well to some TLC in the form of modification. You can get better components in the upper range of say JBL or EV but they cost a lot more to begin with and that's because they were better engineered and built and that's why they cost more and that's why there is usually a lot less to modify on them because it mostly done to begin with. Klipsch are that nice balance whether you buy them and leave them stock or you buy them and modify them they are still great value. Klipsch were very well engineered to provide very good value as well as very good sound.

 

[Tillerman]

Moray,
You beat me to it. While I don't have the quality of crossover like SET12 has been describing, I feel that the engineering and parts quality that were built into my speakers by Klipsch for their price point was excellent. As with most things, there are always ways to improve on a factory design, per the posts by SET12 and Moray here and in multiple other threads.