Klipschorn's sound muddy and low-fi

[thought91]

Hey folks! So my dad just bought a pair of Klipschorn's, with Crites upgraded tweets, mids, and x-overs. We just set them up, and they sound like a louder version of thrift store speakers. Now, I know Klipsch speakers aren't exactly hifi, but I own and love Chorus', which are decently natural sounding. Vocals on these K Horn's sound like PA speakers with a number of pillows shoved against the drivers. Any ideas as to why these sound so horrendous? Thanks!

 

[tomlinmgt]

Not sure I can get on board with your statement about Klipsch speakers not being hifi. Guess that depends on your definition of hifi, but my Chorus II’s with Crites xover and tweeter diaphragms certainly bring pleasure and satisfaction to this set of ears which have spent extensive time with big vintage Altec (19), big vintage Infinity (QLS-1), big Magnepan (-IIIa), big Acoustat (Spectra 22), Vandersteen 2ci, Kef LS50 and have heard a good assortment of modern, big money speakers (Wilson, Devore, Legacy Audio, B&W, Linn, Spendor, etc) as well as Klipschorns powered with tube Mac and I thought they sounded pretty damn nice. Was the mudiness you speak of there when the speakers were auditioned?

 

[Ohighway]

Klipschorns definitely qualify as HiFi..... so if yours arent, then something is amiss.

First off, are they tightly placed in corners?

2nd, are they clean or have they been stored in a garage or shed where critters could have built nests or otherwise clogged the horns with debris?

3rd, Is all wiring in order and/or all connections to drivers and crossovers correct, clean, tight?

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[4-2-7]

You might also want to check all your polarities though the speaker system.

 

[thought91]

Klipschorns definitely qualify as HiFi..... so if yours arent, then something is amiss.

First off, are they tightly placed in corners?

2nd, are they clean or have they been stored in a garage or shed where critters could have built nests or otherwise clogged the horns with debris?

Is all wiring in order and/or all connections to drivers and crossovers correct, clean, tight?

I checked all the connections. Everything is correct, tight, and apparently clean. I believe they've been pretty well taken care of. I'll ask the seller where he's been storing them. Yes, tightly fit against wall.

You might also want to check all your polarities though the speaker system.

Checked. That's not the issue.

Not sure I can get on board with your statement about Klipsch speakers not being hifi. Guess that depends on your definition of hifi, but my Chorus II’s with Crites xover and tweeter diaphragms certainly bring pleasure and satisfaction to this set of ears which have spent extensive time with big vintage Altec (19), big vintage Infinity (QLS-1), big Magnepan (-IIIa), big Acoustat (Spectra 22), Vandersteen 2ci, Kef LS50 and have heard a good assortment of modern, big money speakers (Wilson, Devore, Legacy Audio, B&W, Linn, Spendor, etc) as well as Klipschorns powered with tube Mac and I thought they sounded pretty damn nice. Was the mudiness you speak of there when the speakers were auditioned?

No. In my system at home. By "not HiFi" I guess I mean by snobby audiophile, spend $10,000 on a power cable standards. My modded Chorus' are some of my favorite speakers. Not the most resolving speakers in the world, but they rock.

 

[tomlinmgt]

No. In my system at home. By "not HiFi" I guess I mean by snobby audiophile, spend $10,000 on a power cable standards. My modded Chorus' are some of my favorite speakers. Not the most resolving speakers in the world, but they rock.

Ahhh...”snobby ahudiophile” hifi is a langiage I’m still figuring out (and may never get) so I got nothin’ worthwhile to contribute.

I suppose the same upstream gear that rocks your Chorus is being used with the Khorns???

 

[chip18sw]

Well, I am it seems a "defender" of "Heresy's" but K-Horn's?? Uh ... no, if "Your K-Horn's" don't sound right to you?? Then something is wrong with them??

 

[thought91]

Ahhh...”snobby ahudiophile” hifi is a langiage I’m still figuring out (and may never get) so I got nothin’ worthwhile to contribute.

I suppose the same upstream gear that rocks your Chorus are being used with the Khorns???

Ehhh. My amps are my weakest link at the moment, but that's soon to change. Power is a Classe DR-8, which is pretty good.

 

[tomlinmgt]

Ehhh. My amps are my weakest link at the moment, but that's soon to change. Power is a Classe DR-8, which is pretty good.

You could do a lot worse than Classe. I’ve never heard Khorns with SS gear, but I couldn’t enjoy my Altec 19’s with any SS I tried with them (Threshold, Aragon, Emotiva, Soundcraftsmen, Hafler, Onkyo, Denon) until I got my hands on a Pass First Watt f5 clone and that recalibrated my perception of what SS is capable of (put a pair of 300B SET monos on the sideline permanently). But even with the SS amps that didn’t play so well with the 19’s, their crime was never a muddy mid range. All that having been said, I’m inclined to think if your upstream gear makes nice music with your Chorus then it should make nice music with the Khorns, too. But maybe not. This hobby is full of surprises.

 

[thought91]

You could do a lot worse than Classe. I’ve never heard Khorns with SS gear, but I couldn’t enjoy my Altec 19’s with any SS I tried with them (Threshold, Aragon, Emotiva, Soundcraftsmen, Hafler, Onkyo, Denon) until I got my hands on a Pass First Watt f5 clone and that recalibrated my perception of what SS is capable of (put a pair of 300B SET monos on the sideline permanently). But even with the SS amps that didn’t play so well with the 19’s, their crime was never a muddy mid range. All that having been said, I’m inclined to think if your upstream gear makes nice music with your Chorus then it should make nice music with the Khorns, too. But maybe not. This hobby is full of surprises.

I'd imagine something else is at play. These speakers have no right to sound as poorly as they do. My KEF LS50's even are amazing in comparison. I don't think I''ve ever heard percussion sound so bad as on these Klipsch's; my phone speaker is more believable.

 

[tomlinmgt]

I'd imagine something else is at play. These speakers have no right to sound as poorly as they do. My KEF LS50's even are amazing in comparison. I don't think I''ve ever heard percussion sound so bad as on these Klipsch's; my phone speaker is more believable.

Yeah...something ain't right. Some out there might very well have some valid complaints against the sonic character of Klipsch, but one thing they damn sure get right is percussion. If I were in your shoes, I'd reverse the polarity of the wires going to the mid drivers just for kicks. And you confirmed that the tweeters are producing HF content properly? A mid range driver running on its own (with no tweeter) kinda has a "muddy" sonic character...and percussion needs the HF content to have "snap".

 

[chip18sw]

Well bottom line, is no save for you can say how "your" how your "K-Horns" sound!

But what you say ... does go up hill from pretty much everyone else??? Your best best bet is to try and hear another pair of K horns, somewhere, someplace else?? And yes I know that is not really practical but hey start a thread and maybe there is someone on here, somewhere with K horns that is reasonable close to you??

I've never hear them myself?? But I am a fan! I bought my KG 4's on heard based on hearing Heresy's! And I had no regrets. If your Khorns, sound off ... to you then mostly something is off with them???

They were already "modded" and that is not the same as "stock!" You have no idea if the original purchaser did the install right??

And if you purchased a "Modded" anything ... that is the risk you run, it's pretty much that simple.

 

[thought91]

Yeah...something ain't right. Some out there might very well have some valid complaints against the sonic character of Klipsch, but one thing they damn sure get right is percussion. If I were in your shoes, I'd reverse the polarity of the wires going to the mid drivers just for kicks. And you confirmed that the tweeters are producing HF content properly? A mid range driver running on its own (with no tweeter) kinda has a "muddy" sonic character...and percussion needs the HF content to have "snap".

It is conceivably possible that they aren't wired correctly, but I highly doubt it. I checked and double checked both speakers. Tomorrow I'll see if the grille is removable, and then use a paper towel roll pointed straight towards the tweeter to make sure I hear something. You might be right.. Chorus' without tweeters doesn't sound too far off from what I'm getting out of these.

 

[thought91]

Well bottom line, is no save for you can say how "your" how your "K-Horns" sound!

But what you say ... does go up hill from pretty much everyone else??? Your best best bet is to try and hear another pair of K horns, somewhere, someplace else?? And yes I know that is not really practical but hey start a thread and maybe there is someone on here, somewhere with K horns that is reasonable close to you??

I've never hear them myself?? But I am a fan! I bought my KG 4's on heard based on hearing Heresy's! And I had no regrets. If your Khorns, sound off ... to you then mostly something is off with them???

They were already "modded" and that is not the same as "stock!" You have no idea if the original purchaser did the install right??

And if you purchased a "Modded" anything ... that is the risk you run, it's pretty much that simple.

I am certain that there's something amiss. There's no way Klipschorn's are supposed to sound like this. Improper installation of the caps was a concern of mine. Still is. I will ask the seller about it, and take a look at how it's supposed to be, in comparison to how it is with my pair.

 

[damacman]

Few speakers can best a pair of properly set up, properly functioning k-horns with good electronics. Something is bad wrong.

 

[wweigle]

How old are you Khorns, my guess if they are over twenty years old your crossover capacitors could be way out of specs altering the sound of your speakers significantly. You should take this question to the Klipsch Korner forum here on Audiokarma.

 

[Bucky Badger]

So I am assuming that your dad didn't hear these prior to purchase. I would contact the seller and find out if he/she was the one that modified them and any history you can acquire on these speakers would be helpful... Storage, modifications and when they were done....
Does he/you know what a Crites crossover looks like for the Khorn? Does it look like the pics on the Crites website?
They are pretty straight forward and cleanly laid out. I installed mine easily.
I would also check that the diaphragms in the tweet and mid were installed correctly. Is sound coming from each one?
(Ya never know what others have done to these prior to your dad buying them. Plus it's not that hard to do.)
You could use the cardboard tube method as well to check.
I would also open up the cab and see that they have the correct woofers installed and that sound is coming from them as well.
Room placement is also important. Being pressed up against cinder block corners in the basement with a low ceiling is dif. than 8-10 feet apart in an open living room.
I am sure your dad has read up enough to know these things.
.
And I don't agree that Khorns are not Hi Fi. (whatever that means) I have had enough speakers,(and spent enough $$) in my life to know that Khorns are some of the best sounding speakers out there. For me.
I don't think you have to spend Big Money to get HiFi sound.
When properly placed in the right space and being feed with some nice gear upstream, they are something to behold. Honest.
Just my 2cents.
As others have said, it sounds like there's something wrong with the pair your dad has.
Hope you find out what's up and get them singin' like they should.

 

[hatrack71]

I sure do miss my K-horns. They aren't bass monsters or the ultimate in clarity but they are very certainly hi-fi by a long ways. I'd agree with most that something is probably wrong. Although, I'd be inclined to try another amp. Good synergy can be a challenge with Heritage Klipsch. I leaned more toward a warmer sound than analytical with mine as far as electronics. These guys were born in the tube era and not a whole lot has changed in the design since the 40's.

 

[thought91]

Goo

How old are you Khorns, my guess if they are over twenty years old your crossover capacitors could be way out of specs altering the sound of your speakers significantly. You should take this question to the Klipsch Korner forum here on Audiokarma.

Good idea! Thank you. They're straight from Bob Crites; seller gave me the receipt and everything. Maybe he ordered the wrong set, or mistook the mid cap for the tweet Cap or something? I know Crites has a ton of crossover upgrades on his site.

 

[Coytee]

Yes, tightly fit against wall.

Pardon my being confused....so I'm just trying to clarify...

You were asked if they're tight in the corner and you responded as above.

Only reason I am asking is I've seen people back their Khorns up to the WALL (and not a corner) and think they're done.

So you are saying that they're tight up against the wall or the corner?

(yeah, my wife says I'm a bit OCD on word choice)

Nothing may be wrong but, something isn't right.