KR9600 No Relay Click

Discussion in 'Kenwood-Trio/Kensonic-Accuphase' started by Fiddler1-5, May 17, 2018.

  1. Fiddler1-5

    Fiddler1-5 New Member

    Messages:
    15
    I've been digging around here reading up about protection mode Issues for KR9600's. I'm hoping to have eliminated both TA-200W as the issue. Here are the voltages from the relay board pins:

    1 .6mv
    2 -1mv
    3 16.5mv
    4 11mv
    5 69.4v
    6 .067v
    7 -9.53v
    8 -1.59v
    9 7.66VAC

    I have the Service manual as well and also followed the trouble shooting tree and checked voltages at Qk11-14 14.

    (B | C | E)
    Qk11 1.3 | 0 | .6
    Qk12 .165 | 19.5 | 0
    Qk13 .642 | .034 | 0
    Qk14 68.5 | 69 | 69.1

    any help would be much appreciated.
     

     

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  2. gort69

    gort69 AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Remove the bottom cover and measure the DC voltage at wire wrap pin #6 on each amp board. Ideally you'd read 0 there, but if it's an untouched 9600 150-200mv is likely. Hope that you don't see lots of voltage there. This will help narrow down the health of the modules. Don't measure at the module pins - too much chance of shorting something.
     
  3. Fiddler1-5

    Fiddler1-5 New Member

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    Thanks for the reply!

    Right channel reads 11mv
    Left Channel reads 16mv
     
  4. gort69

    gort69 AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    That was fast and good news, too! Just to make sure you measured the correct pin.

    P7130580.JPG

    I'll dig through my notes and see what I come up with to check next - it's been awhile.
     
  5. gort69

    gort69 AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Not going in any particular order, just what I remember to be common failure points. On p. 22 of your manual, check voltages on the X00-1860-10 regulator board. (under top cover) Qr1 (2sc1419) is a known bad actor, at least in my experience.
     
  6. petehall347

    petehall347 the brandy coffee man Subscriber

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    you missed pins 10 and 11 voltages relay board ..
    pin 5 is good .. 10 and 11 should be 0v ..
     

     

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  7. Fiddler1-5

    Fiddler1-5 New Member

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    I'm about to get a lot slower, just got to work and straight to rehearsal afterwards so I wont be home until 10ish.

    That is the pin I measured on both boards. I'll check the regulator board possible tonight but more likely tomorrow and report back.
     
  8. Fiddler1-5

    Fiddler1-5 New Member

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    I left them out, but both pin 10 and 11 were .001v.
     
  9. petehall347

    petehall347 the brandy coffee man Subscriber

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    check solder joints for a break somewhere on the relay board .. also check relay coils resistances .. but first make sure voltage between pin 10 and 5 . is same as pin 5 to ground
     
  10. Fiddler1-5

    Fiddler1-5 New Member

    Messages:
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    Found a couple solder joints on the relay board that look iffy so I reflowed them. still no click.

    On the Relay board:
    5-10 68.5
    5-ground 68.2

    This might be a dumb question but should I remove the relays before measuring their coil resistance?

    X00-1860-10 pins (on the schematic it looked to me like there is an 8th pin but I couldn't find it on the board)

    1 38.2
    2 37.6
    3 68.5
    4 -68.9
    5 -37.4
    6 -36.7
    7 26.44

    (B C E)
    Qr1 38.5 57.1 37.9
    Qr2 -37.4 -56 -36.8
     
  11. petehall347

    petehall347 the brandy coffee man Subscriber

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    the relay coils are wired in series . one goes to pin 10 the other pin 5 . one or both coils appear open or there is a bad connection . you should be able find the break with your meter .
     

     

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  12. Fiddler1-5

    Fiddler1-5 New Member

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    Ah ok. I Measured the resistance between pin 5 and 10 and it started around 28KOhms and gradually kept creeping up, I stopped measuring at 70Kohms but it was still going up.
     
  13. gort69

    gort69 AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Measure Rq1 - 390 ohms. If you get a goofy reading lift one end of it and remeasure.
     
  14. petehall347

    petehall347 the brandy coffee man Subscriber

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    well spotted ..it was invisible to me last time i looked . its there now
     
  15. Fiddler1-5

    Fiddler1-5 New Member

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    Rq-1 reads 399 ohms in circuit. I decided to test it with one leg out as well and it read 413 ohms
     
  16. gort69

    gort69 AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    A little high, but close enough. With that leg of Rq1 still lifted, measure across each set of relay coils. Should be 600-650 ohms-ish. If you get goofy readings, lift one end of Dq2 and recheck. Test Dq2 (diode test) while you have one end lifted.
     

     

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  17. Fiddler1-5

    Fiddler1-5 New Member

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    Lq1 reads 628 ohms Lq2 produces OL. Just to make sure I read them right, I was supposed to measure between these pins on the relays correct?
     

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  18. gort69

    gort69 AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Yes - those pins are for the coil. Pete called it - one relay seems to have an open coil. Very uncommon. Did you lift one leg of Dq2 and test the coils? I'd replace Dq2 anyway as part of the repair. I'd also replace both relays while you're there.

    Relays https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetai...=sGAEpiMZZMtSzCF3XBhmW7nRSRDOvRrSF7fzJd2EGBw=

    Rq1 https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Yageo/MFR50SFTE52-390R?qs=UFD7vfw3J8oh2W9glTP6zA==

    Dq2 https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetai...1N4007-TP?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvcAs5GUBtMdY7fMHKUZUWl

    Be careful unsoldering the relays - they usually have a couple pins bent over and it's easy to rip a solder pad.

    If it was mine, I'd also replace the relay driver Qk14 on power supply "A" https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetai...=sGAEpiMZZMshyDBzk1/Wi8oN7VHZ91OkElYp2SDpFnQ=
     
  19. petehall347

    petehall347 the brandy coffee man Subscriber

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    lq2 coil bad then ..or its become loose at one of the pins . remove the whole relay and remove its cover and look to see if it can be fixed .
     
  20. Fiddler1-5

    Fiddler1-5 New Member

    Messages:
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    Yeah, I lifted a leg of Dq2. I’ll go ahead and replace what’s been suggested. And while I wait for the parts to arrive do what petehall347 suggested. I also have a couple parts on the PS A board (Rk18 and Qk3) that appear to be runnign really hot, to the point of discoloring the board. Is this something I should be worried about?

    I’m excited to have this bad boy up and running again.
     

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