Krell FPB 300 repair $$$?

pfcs49

pfcs49

Phil
Subscriber
So when my trusty Accuphase P300 didn't have quite enough snot to drive the new B&Ws, I bought a used Krell for $3000 3 years ago.
3 weeks ago I drove it up to the Krell factory for service-it's developed a bias problem in the left channel and overheats.
Today I got an email about an upgrade to any of their Evolution E series amps. Just send it in and they'll upgrade it for only $5,000! WTF?
Tomorrow they'll have my estimate ready.
I'm afraid, very afraid.
 
"If you can afford a Krell, what is $5000.00 in these economic times?"

I guess tomorrow I'll know if I can afford one. I'll be pretty upset if the estimate is more than a very few hundred bucks, but after the $5000 up-grade offer on their newer amps I'm thinkin I'm swimmin in a toxic pool only the rich can afford!
 
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pfcs49 said:
"If you can afford a Krell, what is $5000.00 in these economic times?"

I guess tomorrow I'll know if I can afford one. I'll be pretty upset if the estimate is more than a very few hundred bucks, but after the $5000 up-grade offer on their newer amps I'm thinkin I'm swimmin in a toxic pool only the rich can swim in!
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Sounds like it's time to learn how to repair your own gear so you can enjoy luxury products, without paying the luxury cost of repair based on the emblem residing on the faceplate. :thmbsp:

Bear in mind certain brands will cost more to repair based on their status symbol. Krell falls in such a category.

Best Regards,
 
I consulted Levinson/Harman for a factory checkup/tune up for a seemingly perfectly functional Levinson No. 23 amp. Was quoted $1200 flat rate which included complete test and replacement of any components (cosmetics not included) to make the amp meet or exceed the original specs. This was maybe a couple years ago. I'm sure it's more now. I did not send in the amp and am using it still today.
 
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Damn that is one "toxic pool." That knowledge is worth something, as we all know, but $1200? I toured the McIntosh factory recently. Very impressed with their repair and test setup. They have test jigs for the rear panels of each of their products and several repair benches. Probably cost them $1200 to develop and make each of those test jigs.

Didn't inquire as to the cost of repair services there. Levinson and Krell are in a different league yet. Long live our trusty techs around AK! I sure wish there were more like them, in every city!

Collin
 
I had thought about doing a recap on it myself and could get to the main filter caps. However, what discouraged me from digging in is that there are several heavy bussbars for a number of circuits that are soldered in place and I didn't feel like dealing with that level disassembly/reassembly.
 
Probably not too bad!?

:D I spoke with Ray, the service mgr today-seems like an earth person/PLU (People Like Us).
At least it needs an opamp replaced in the left channel bias circuit-nor very expensive/emailed estimates to follow in a day or two-
-BUT-would I like to replace 50-60(?) caps prophyllacticly?
If the price is manageable I think it would be smart-the amp must be pushing 10 yrs old and it's like an oven, especially with this problem! The hottest I've seen the good channel heat-sinks was 145*F, but the bad channel hit 200*F recently (meas w/infra-red pyrometer). Can't enhance capacitor life.
So it's looking like my fears may be un-founded or at least overblown.
The labor rate is $120/hr and the time mentioned was 5-6hrs. The parts are cheap. Waiting to see a specific number.
 
I got a Krell KSA-250S repaired for under $500, less shipping, a few years ago. The parts are private labeled. Most repair men will not take them in.

Here is hoping! Good luck!
 
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My Krell HTS7.1 pre-pro has been running strong for 4 1/2 years now, knock wood.
It is the center of my hometheater system and I couldn't imagine replacing it.
The build quality is excellent.
I hope that your repair is equitable for you and you can move on happily.

Al. wise
 
Repair cost in 2009

My FPB 300 developed distortion at low levels in one channel. I sent it back to Krell and got it fixed for about $1060, as estimated.

It initially sounded like they were just replacing a couple of parts, including some bias control IC. But when the unit arrived, the list of parts replaced included something like 100 capacitors. I was very happy to have the capacitors replaced, that means it is almost like refurbished, which I would have asked for (in fact I did ask about getting it refurbished, only they didn't answer). I don't think Krell replaced ALL the capacitors, they seem to think the larger ones will last longer. But it looks to me like they replaced enough to be sure it doesn't come back for awhile.

I thought Krell gave me good service, and I think $1060 is a reasonable price to repair an extremely sophisticated amplifier like this. And I also think one can probably expect to need to repair any hot running Class A amplifer after 10 years of service (or, if less lucky, maybe 5). This thing does indeed run very hot playing my black hole power sucking Acoustat 1+1 speakers that love to make other amplifiers clip. I think I've heard that component life is halved for each 10 degree (C) increase in heat.

If you aren't prepared for that, stick to Class AB or build your own Class A with ground sourced heat pump water cooling.

For me, I'm in the big leagues now, my electrostatic speakers NEED class A and no loop feedback to sound their best, and at least 400W into 4 ohms. For $2.8K initial investment (used price on Audiogon), and $1K maintenance so far, not so bad. This is one of the best options for me. Plus, as a US citizen, I'm proud to be supporting high end electronics manufacturing in USA, this is one way to do it without being mega rich and buying new Evos.

One thing, Krell actually forgot about my amp after I sent it to them. If you don't hear from them in a week or so, I'd give them a call, they're very nice. I waited a few months because I was very busy doing other things anyway. When I finally did call, they got the work estimated and done pretty fast and included complementary 2-day return shipping because they had made me wait.
 
Evolution e Series Upgrades

We are excited to announce that e Series upgrades are now available for the Evolution 402, Evolution 403, Evolution 600, and Evolution 900 models. The upgrade includes an extensive change to the output stage, additional power supply capacitance, and the introduction of a green operating mode that reduces standby power draw to two watts – a 99% reduction! Read more here.

The Evolution 402e has already received two great reviews. Legendary British reviewer, Martin Colloms, directly compared the Evolution 402 to the new Evolution 402e in his Hi Fi Critic review last month…

“As it bedded in, the 402e began to surge ahead of the 402, delivering clearly better bass definition and tune playing, slightly more upbeat tempi, and significantly greater detail and transparency. Delightfully enhanced speed and dynamic contrasts were achieved with a sweeter, more open and more exciting upper midrange, intriguingly with no false timbre or brightness. Depth and transparency were clearly better at all volume levels, so claims that dynamic modulation effects had been improved would seem to be vindicated.”
He liked the Evolution 402e so much, he ended up buying it!

The Details
For US customers, upgrades are performed at the Krell factory. Please contact your authorized Krell dealer or Pat Bresnahan at PBresnahan@krellonline.com or 203-298-4017 to schedule an upgrade. Pricing is $5,000/chassis plus freight and insurance.
 
I avoid Krell amps due to their attitude about providing parts or service information. And the cost of repairing them. McIntosh, Crown and Bryston are for my money far better amplifiers and much easier to keep functional for years. And there are Krell amps I like. If I as a broadcast engineer can't service an amplifier, then I refuse to buy it.
 
I'd fix it myself, but.............

"Sounds like it's time to learn how to repair your own gear so you can enjoy luxury products, without paying the luxury cost of repair based on the emblem residing on the faceplate."

........I can't pick it up. I can barely get my Accuphase P300 from the floor to my lap without it pulling me out of my chair!
And I believe even if I could, I'm better served by specialists (Krell and Accutech) with my somewhat limited knowledge. And I don't think service info/schematics is available for Krell?
Still, that doesn't keep me out of it. I've diagnosed and repaired a C60 and C85 preamp, and restored 2 B&O 8002 TTs.
I'm on my way to the cave to figure out why the 8000 I just resoldered/re-capped isn't getting a high enough signal in the disc detector circuit to abort when there's no vinyl on the table.
Tomorrow I should get/post the estimates on the FBP 300.

PS: I delivered the amp to Krell in my 2.0 GTI w/"fancy-paddle shifted sealed transmission" that needs service every 40K ($160). I fabricated an adapter for drain/refilling DSG sequential boxes myself. When I first laid eyes on it 4 years ago, I knew it was made for people whose foots didn't work! (T12 parapelegic)
 
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KentTeffeteller said:
I avoid Krell amps due to their attitude about providing parts or service information. And the cost of repairing them. McIntosh, Crown and Bryston are for my money far better amplifiers and much easier to keep functional for years. And there are Krell amps I like. If I as a broadcast engineer can't service an amplifier, then I refuse to buy it.
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I had a Bryston 4B from 1984 with that someone had butchered a PCB in. I sent it to Bryston for repair because one channel was dead. The Bryston tech called and asked if I wanted to have the butchered PCB replaced for $150. I said sure, but asked about the blown channel. They told me that was covered under the 20 year warranty (amp was 19 yrs old) as was the discolored face panel.

They also replaced the filter caps and power switch which were at the time working fine, free of charge.

Thought I think $3K+ is unacceptable for an amplifier, that warranty and service is hard to beat especially when someone butchering a PCB didn't void the warranty on everything else. Was also able to talk directly to the tech who was working on my amp.

If I was going to buy expensive gear, I'd go for Bryston without a doubt.
 
This is kind of like buying a used Ferrari and then complaining about service costs. What does one expect? Note that I'm not putting down the OP, just saying that you should know what you are getting into when buying used high end gear.
 
I work for a living repairing broadcast equipment ranging from AM and FM transmitters and studio equipment of all kinds. And that even includes monitor power amplifiers out of warranty. I buy gear which can be repaired in house by our crew led by me. I can repair many a piece of tube or SS gear, and have superb test equipment at work. About the only gear I have to send off to get repaired or calibrated is major test equipment or audio processing gear like an Optimod. I can repair older processors. I have paid less to repair an Orban Optimod processor than the average Krell component. And that Optimod works for a living providing our signal to the public. If Krell goes under for any reason or similar companies with similar attitude, many owners will have nowhere to go to keep their units running.
 
Not terribly painful!..

Here's my estimate/invoice:

FPB-300
Ship To: Phil Hunt
4 Non-warranty labor/hour(s) 4.0 @$120.00 $480.00
3 300051 OPAMP OP-297GP PMI 3.0 11/30/2010 @$6.00 $18.00
48 300897 CAP,EL RD 47UF 20%100V @$4.00 $192.00
4 300891 CAP EL RD 220UF 20%50V @$4.00 $16.00
8 300901 CAP, ELC RD 100UF 20% 25V @$4.00 $32.00
8 300781 CAP, 220UF 50V BIPOLAR @$4.00 $32.00
8 300900 CAP EL RD 1000UF 20% 10V_______________@$4.00 $32.00_
TOTAL: $802.00
Not bad! replace 76 caps and 3 op-amps/4hrs labor.
The estimate to only replace the op-amps was $258!
I'm going to drive back for pickup-shipping for that huge package? $150!
Much relieved and feeling great about Krell factory service! I am really astounded that they are so reasonable-definitely a pleasant surprise, esp after receiving the $5000 green E upgrade offer that lowers idling consumption (in a later amp I don't have) to plebeian levels.
Me-I've got my whole system on a switched outlet. Normal FPB 300 consumption when "off/standby" is 60w 24/7. Screw that! And a lot cheaper than spending $5000 on my conscience.:tresbon::
 
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