Lafayette LR-9090 series / Setton RS 660 series Repairs & upgrades
- Thread starter K7sparky
- Start date
Normal ware on the power switch contacts is caused by transformer inrush at turn on and inductive collapse at turn off. The cap across the contacts helps with the turn off arc. The amount of on & off arcing (read contact ware) is dependent on the voltage point on the sin wave when the contacts make or break so is random.
The rating you give for the equalizer indicates an itty bitty transformer for it's power supply of possibly a switcher supply. Neither would make much difference to the power switch. However every little bits hurts.
The 9090 switched output has a silkscreened 100W max. That is 83 ma at 120V. Same as the unswitched outlets.
The main reason I don't use the outlets on the back of amp for any more than a turntable is the added possibility of external failure blowing something in the amp. I used to plug in a couple of tape decks also
The 9090 does not have a fuse on the AC line. If I was going back to using the back panel outlets for more than a turntable on one of mine I would add an internal fuse on the AC line for extra peace of mind.
The relay mods I did before the TRIAC you notice that a set of relay contacts control the switched outlet. Worst case is you need a new relay for a problem on the switched outlet. A problem on the unswitched outlets can still cause you a mess to clean up.
The TRIAC mod I am now using also switches the rear panel switched outlet so it is at risk.
TRIAC costs 20% or less of a relay and installation time of a replacement I would estimate as about 5%
TRIACS switch at about 0 volts so your power transformer as well whatever is plugged into the switched outlet will be less stressed.
Either mod will save your power switch.
Using any AC power outlet on an amp is a trade of convenience vs. your risk tolerance.
Binkman
Lunatic Member
jessbob ... fathers day and time ticking away'...
hakku is good stuff but I got an Aoyue 9378 60 Watt Programmable and performs very well. just sayin.. might go shopping before hand.
Kinda reminds me of the movie; "a Christmas story" that actually was released about this time of year on HBO.. lol. Like print out some images for deals online and put it in one of her magazines or leave them about.
hakku is good stuff but I got an Aoyue 9378 60 Watt Programmable and performs very well. just sayin.. might go shopping before hand.
Kinda reminds me of the movie; "a Christmas story" that actually was released about this time of year on HBO.. lol. Like print out some images for deals online and put it in one of her magazines or leave them about.
jessbob
Active Member
Hey Binkman I got the hakko last Wednesday along with solder and flux paste. I just couldn't wait so I bought it at b-d they gave a discount for audio karma guys, awesome. Iam sure she will get me a cool gift from the kids, Christmas story I love that movie they run it on a 24 hr loop from Christmas eve, Christmas day and if I want more Ralph and the old mans sexy lamp I own dvd and vhs versions. I did the k7 sparky power switch repair with triac this was my first repair I did it last night and the Lafayette is great once again. I will post some pics soon next repair is the tape deck. Bob.
jessbob
Active Member
Thanks to k7 sparky
Well I did my first upgrade/repair on my Lafayette lr-9090 and am very happy that I decided to do it. I also removed the face cleaned the glass and front panel plus knobs. I have some pics to post and in one of the alps switch pics you can see a little spring under tne contact for what I think was put there for added pressure by someone, I am hoping someone can tell me if this is true or not. I didn't re install the spring. Bob.
Well I did my first upgrade/repair on my Lafayette lr-9090 and am very happy that I decided to do it. I also removed the face cleaned the glass and front panel plus knobs. I have some pics to post and in one of the alps switch pics you can see a little spring under tne contact for what I think was put there for added pressure by someone, I am hoping someone can tell me if this is true or not. I didn't re install the spring. Bob.
Attachments
First blue Alps power switch I've seen.
Looks like scrubbing bubbles cleaned the burn / carbon off OK.
The spring in the pix looks too heavy even if it was a late Alps factory mod to "debounce" on closing. :thumbsdn: Don't recall seeing anything like that in small switches using a leaf spring type moving contact
I agree with your assessment that someone added it and that spring is what caused the contacts to weld. It would have bent the moving contact closer to the stationary contact on opening. Less contact gap = longer arch time. IMHO you did the right thing chunking it.
Both moving and fixed contacts in the blue switch look unchanged from the gray ones.
Always nice when your first mod is a success :yippy:
Looks like scrubbing bubbles cleaned the burn / carbon off OK.
The spring in the pix looks too heavy even if it was a late Alps factory mod to "debounce" on closing. :thumbsdn: Don't recall seeing anything like that in small switches using a leaf spring type moving contact
I agree with your assessment that someone added it and that spring is what caused the contacts to weld. It would have bent the moving contact closer to the stationary contact on opening. Less contact gap = longer arch time. IMHO you did the right thing chunking it.
Both moving and fixed contacts in the blue switch look unchanged from the gray ones.
Always nice when your first mod is a success :yippy:
jessbob
Active Member
The alps switch is gray just like yours, the room is painted blue and the phone pics are not the greatest. Thanks for the info on that little spring it was making me nervous, I tossed it in the trash and yes the scrubbing bubbles work awesome, I ran the Lafayette pretty hard yesterday at about 3-1/2 on the dial for almost 2 hrs which is pretty darn loud and not a hiccup. No one was home, thanks again for taking the time to help me out. It is a great thing you did taking the time to post all that info on the setton and laffayette receivers. Could not have done it without your help thanks again. Bob.
WOW I love the new server
Back in post #47 I mentioned that there were flaky 2SC1708 with date code 66F in the old style 9090s. (old style are the ones without the transformer shield in the bottom)
One of the new style 9090s without a S/N tag started dropping out the protective relay. Checked power supplies, PA for shorted final, oscillation or high offset but all was OK. It had been in service for about a year since I recapped, installed my listed mods and tuned the FM / AM section.
Problem was Right channel PA Q5. The protection trigger Q5 was a slightly leaky 2SC1708. This time date code 68G
Vceo is 90V so the 35 volts on Q5 is in no way stressing 2SC1708.
I have been replacing 2SC1708 with KSC1845P (any letter suffix is OK for 2SC1708 but buy F or E (best) for better gain replacing other 2SC / 2SD in other NPN applications). Note that the outer leads (E & B) of the KSC are reversed compared to the 2SC so mount it with the flat side opposite the original and PCB marking.
Back in post #47 I mentioned that there were flaky 2SC1708 with date code 66F in the old style 9090s. (old style are the ones without the transformer shield in the bottom)
One of the new style 9090s without a S/N tag started dropping out the protective relay. Checked power supplies, PA for shorted final, oscillation or high offset but all was OK. It had been in service for about a year since I recapped, installed my listed mods and tuned the FM / AM section.
Problem was Right channel PA Q5. The protection trigger Q5 was a slightly leaky 2SC1708. This time date code 68G
Vceo is 90V so the 35 volts on Q5 is in no way stressing 2SC1708.
I have been replacing 2SC1708 with KSC1845P (any letter suffix is OK for 2SC1708 but buy F or E (best) for better gain replacing other 2SC / 2SD in other NPN applications). Note that the outer leads (E & B) of the KSC are reversed compared to the 2SC so mount it with the flat side opposite the original and PCB marking.
Bert Beukema
Well-Known Member
Hey Setton lovers. I'm the proud owner of an rs-440, one step down the ladder. It uses much of the same framework as it's bigger brother. There is a curious problem with my machine and I think it's because a previous owner tried to change one of the lamp bulbs. The RS-440 shares the 660 design on the main lights: three incandescent bulbs to illuminate the front, it uses acrylic cradles to 'refract' the light. For the left dials a separate 'refractor' acrylic piece was inserted. Now, in my case both the cradle of the left lamp and the refractor piece are severely cracked. It could happen from heat but seeing someone put tape around the lamp cradle i'm guessing that person tried to lift the lamp out with a screwdriver (not smart).
Bottom line: all lamps work and light output is fine, but the left dial get's almost no light from the left bulb, it's almost dark. I've been thinking about adding a fourth light directly above the dial, but I'm not entirely sure where I can tap that bulb into the 'power grid'. I've also been thinking about a method to refract the light better towards the lef dial, but it seems the old school aluminium mirror has little to no effect. I'm not sure I want to change the entire light rail to LEDS as these have their own issues.
If anyone has a bright idea, i'm game!
Thanks,
Bert
Bottom line: all lamps work and light output is fine, but the left dial get's almost no light from the left bulb, it's almost dark. I've been thinking about adding a fourth light directly above the dial, but I'm not entirely sure where I can tap that bulb into the 'power grid'. I've also been thinking about a method to refract the light better towards the lef dial, but it seems the old school aluminium mirror has little to no effect. I'm not sure I want to change the entire light rail to LEDS as these have their own issues.
If anyone has a bright idea, i'm game!
Thanks,
Bert
Well Bert you made up my mind of which to do next.
I've got 2 RS-440 in the to do stack so I will do one next.
Seems like I had to repair / replace some or all the light channel on the only RS-660 I have and wrote up awhile back.
Got the end of farm season to finish and a HF beam on the ground for step motor shaft repair and re-installation ahead of the RS 440 so it will be a month or 2
I am guessing you downloaded the manual for the 440.
I sent a BUNCH of manuals to the AK DB, but they evaporated several years ago.
I also posted them on HiFi engine.
The RS manuals were not my original postings and don't know where I originally found them years back
The RS-440 is the brother to the LR-5555 and LR-5555A
GREAT to have you aboard
Hope you plan on the TRIAC mod to save the unobtainium ALPS power switch.
I've got 2 RS-440 in the to do stack so I will do one next.
Seems like I had to repair / replace some or all the light channel on the only RS-660 I have and wrote up awhile back.
Got the end of farm season to finish and a HF beam on the ground for step motor shaft repair and re-installation ahead of the RS 440 so it will be a month or 2
I am guessing you downloaded the manual for the 440.
I sent a BUNCH of manuals to the AK DB, but they evaporated several years ago.
I also posted them on HiFi engine.
The RS manuals were not my original postings and don't know where I originally found them years back
The RS-440 is the brother to the LR-5555 and LR-5555A
GREAT to have you aboard
Hope you plan on the TRIAC mod to save the unobtainium ALPS power switch.
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Bert Beukema
Well-Known Member
RIght now i'm mostly praying that the Sanken S60W IC's in there keep working after I revised the board. These are unobtanium and although i've seen some homebrew version of them i'd rather not 'de-vintage' the receiver. I recently was able to buy a set of new S80W Sanken IC's that are the failover here. They use a different pin setup and are obviously of a higher wattage, but as far as I can see there are no really big issues. But for now i've got my fingers crossed on that one ;-). I did read the manuals but as you know you need to be very, very careful as some sloppy mistakes are in there and even then perhaps the one I have isn't even the 'final good one'.
I have the Triac mod on my list and wanted to do this after refinishing the woodcase (someone stripped the veneer and painted it). But as with all vintage equipment, my Optonica 4646 amplifier said 'poof' today. Poof being not at all a good thing, especially in this monster, it's now on the operating table ;-).
Bert
I have the Triac mod on my list and wanted to do this after refinishing the woodcase (someone stripped the veneer and painted it). But as with all vintage equipment, my Optonica 4646 amplifier said 'poof' today. Poof being not at all a good thing, especially in this monster, it's now on the operating table ;-).
Bert
RS-440
Strangest thing happened. I popped both RS440 out of their cases and put the newer one back in after looking it over. Next thing I remember is all the parts from the older one spread out drying in front of a fan. Only thing left is cleaning the meters with a baby wipe. Even the slide rule dial and knobs are clean.
Well first thing to note is the covering is contact paper not veneer. See picture of
wrinkle & shrinkage.
Both look like the LR-5555 inside, but it’s been a few years since I had the LR out of the case to update it.
The meter light channel in the older one is quite close to the 9090 ones I’ve pulled and replaced with the ones I cut from Plexiglas that gather a bit more light from the LEDs I mount after drilling the back of the light bar or folding up a new metal backing on a friends sheet metal bender he uses for roof tin that I don't think is around any longer. Don’t see any pictures I took of the 660 while it was apart so not sure how it compares.
The 440 meter light channel has one piece of what used to be white tape on the meter edge instead of the white paint as on the LR and the one I copied the LR. The 3 hole RS440 dial light channel has the proper white edge to reflect light down.
If you make your own light channels you need to cut back the front at 45 degrees and paint the cut area white to deflect the light. Think I posted pictures of the longer main one. Same thing on the meter light channel.
Unit 1
The first one I am assuming is the oldest has stamped between the transformer and heatsink Dec 1, 1977. It is the only one of any of the brood I’ve seen with a date stamped.
It required a complete strip and wash with scrubbing bubbles and a long dry by the wood stove. It looked like life in a smokers den.
The tops of both 10K MFD 50V main caps are puffed up so know they are bad at the git go.
It has the larger 80W power modules and I can see holes drilled in the heatsink for the smaller 60W modules. Holes were never used. The leads are bent around the board and soldered down.
older unit PM
only heatsink holes that were used are for the 80W PM - vary strange
Unit 2
I think this one is the newer one and is extremely dusty and nothing else. It too needs the scrubbing bubble treatment. Will also require a long dry time.
The contact paper on the case is back just a touch from the top screen and not a problem
It has the 60W modules like yours and there are holes that would fit the 80W modules have never had a screw threaded in. When I get around to stripping it I will post pictures of the 60W & heatsink.
General
The schematic in the only service manual I’ve found shows the S60W modules and in the SM parts list IC1,2 are S-60W. Another schematic with page 90 & 91 of something No 1600 on the bottom is also missing middle identifies IC 1 as S60W
The center of both RS440 schematics is missing just like the RS660. Anyone find anything better?
Both have the dinky ALPS power switch like all it's brother-in so will get TRIACS prior to using the power switch again. Till I get there it will be bypassed.
For general knowledge: I need to edit the TRIAC mods When these rebuilds are done. Stumbled over BTA20-600 20A 600V insulated / BTB20 noninsulated. A line of BTA / BTB in various currents and voltages are rated for high inductive loads same as the Littlefuse Alternistor line. CHEAP on the bay and I ordered some. These units will be the test bed for the ST (SGS-Thompson) line of "Snubberless “ TRIACS.
Strangest thing happened. I popped both RS440 out of their cases and put the newer one back in after looking it over. Next thing I remember is all the parts from the older one spread out drying in front of a fan. Only thing left is cleaning the meters with a baby wipe. Even the slide rule dial and knobs are clean.
Well first thing to note is the covering is contact paper not veneer. See picture of
wrinkle & shrinkage.Both look like the LR-5555 inside, but it’s been a few years since I had the LR out of the case to update it.
The meter light channel in the older one is quite close to the 9090 ones I’ve pulled and replaced with the ones I cut from Plexiglas that gather a bit more light from the LEDs I mount after drilling the back of the light bar or folding up a new metal backing on a friends sheet metal bender he uses for roof tin that I don't think is around any longer. Don’t see any pictures I took of the 660 while it was apart so not sure how it compares.
The 440 meter light channel has one piece of what used to be white tape on the meter edge instead of the white paint as on the LR and the one I copied the LR. The 3 hole RS440 dial light channel has the proper white edge to reflect light down.
If you make your own light channels you need to cut back the front at 45 degrees and paint the cut area white to deflect the light. Think I posted pictures of the longer main one. Same thing on the meter light channel.
Unit 1
The first one I am assuming is the oldest has stamped between the transformer and heatsink Dec 1, 1977. It is the only one of any of the brood I’ve seen with a date stamped.
It required a complete strip and wash with scrubbing bubbles and a long dry by the wood stove. It looked like life in a smokers den.
The tops of both 10K MFD 50V main caps are puffed up so know they are bad at the git go.
It has the larger 80W power modules and I can see holes drilled in the heatsink for the smaller 60W modules. Holes were never used. The leads are bent around the board and soldered down.
older unit PM
only heatsink holes that were used are for the 80W PM - vary strange
Unit 2
I think this one is the newer one and is extremely dusty and nothing else. It too needs the scrubbing bubble treatment. Will also require a long dry time.
The contact paper on the case is back just a touch from the top screen and not a problem
It has the 60W modules like yours and there are holes that would fit the 80W modules have never had a screw threaded in. When I get around to stripping it I will post pictures of the 60W & heatsink.
General
The schematic in the only service manual I’ve found shows the S60W modules and in the SM parts list IC1,2 are S-60W. Another schematic with page 90 & 91 of something No 1600 on the bottom is also missing middle identifies IC 1 as S60W
The center of both RS440 schematics is missing just like the RS660. Anyone find anything better?
Both have the dinky ALPS power switch like all it's brother-in so will get TRIACS prior to using the power switch again. Till I get there it will be bypassed.
For general knowledge: I need to edit the TRIAC mods When these rebuilds are done. Stumbled over BTA20-600 20A 600V insulated / BTB20 noninsulated. A line of BTA / BTB in various currents and voltages are rated for high inductive loads same as the Littlefuse Alternistor line. CHEAP on the bay and I ordered some. These units will be the test bed for the ST (SGS-Thompson) line of "Snubberless “ TRIACS.
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The RS440 power module mystery continues:
The one with the S80W and a date stamp 1977 has S/N 02000611. Normal S/N sequence would make this one older.
The one I thought was newer has S/N 01000xy0 hard to read. X looks like a decimal point and y might be an 8?
The only documentation I have is for the RS440 and identifies the PA PCB as PSMA026COX.
The PA PCB in the 1977 unit is PSMA028COX-01 Notice the 8 looks weird on the PCB
At least that explains how both modules are soldered in as the S60W is an 8 pin and the S80W is a 10 pin and have different pin sequences.
S/N name plate on both say 55WPC
My LR5555A has the S80W modules. PSMA028COX-01 PCB boards. S/N 038711-00505. Is this another difference in the A other than a couple of LEDs on the front panel?
Bert: What is the S/N of yours and does it have a date stamp?
I don't have stripped pictures of the RS440 with 60W PA modules yet but the heatsink drill pattern for the module mounting seem the same.
It's almost like they were having trouble getting the modules and they produced PA PCBs for either one and used the board for which they had on hand. OR since Planet World did building for numerous brands they would bulk buy PA modules and assemble per what was on hand.
LR5555 & RS440 owners how about SN and which PA modules you have?
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Bert Beukema
Well-Known Member
Sorry for my late reply, i'm trying to tackle a frustrating issue with my Optonica 4646. Your detective work is, as always, very interesting to say the least.
- The serial number on the back of my machine: 01000348 (Setton)
- IC board is PSMA0226COX and there is no suffix (-01 / -02)
- There is indeed a second unused hole @ the Sanken IC's
- Mine are the Sanken s60w
- The difference between the S60w and S80w is minute. I think they are essentially interchangeable. Pin readout is different but still they both use the same number.
- My board has a ceramic capacitor soldered onto pins #2 and #6 on each of the S60w
At first glance the boards look exactly the same, with the exception that mine is populated with mostly black capacitors (nippon). It does have two large Elna filter capacitors at the power supply.
The wood case is indeed very low quality, the previous owner of mine had it stripped and then painted the board below. I have a piece of Zebrano wood with which i'm going to veneer it.
Greetz,
Bert
- The serial number on the back of my machine: 01000348 (Setton)
- IC board is PSMA0226COX and there is no suffix (-01 / -02)
- There is indeed a second unused hole @ the Sanken IC's
- Mine are the Sanken s60w
- The difference between the S60w and S80w is minute. I think they are essentially interchangeable. Pin readout is different but still they both use the same number.
- My board has a ceramic capacitor soldered onto pins #2 and #6 on each of the S60w
At first glance the boards look exactly the same, with the exception that mine is populated with mostly black capacitors (nippon). It does have two large Elna filter capacitors at the power supply.
The wood case is indeed very low quality, the previous owner of mine had it stripped and then painted the board below. I have a piece of Zebrano wood with which i'm going to veneer it.
Greetz,
Bert
Bert
I was making new plastics for the light bars I hope to post soon and on top of the older (S/N starting with a 1) I found a stamped date Jul 27, 1977. It is Black ink on black metal and needs to be clean and light right to read.
New guess is S/N starting with 1 are same as LR5555 and starting with 2 are LR5555A
Difference is July to December in 1977
Wipe off the top of your light bar and see if you can see a date with light at an angle.
Tried 4ea 9090 and 1 LR120 metal bars and there is NO date on them
I was making new plastics for the light bars I hope to post soon and on top of the older (S/N starting with a 1) I found a stamped date Jul 27, 1977. It is Black ink on black metal and needs to be clean and light right to read.
New guess is S/N starting with 1 are same as LR5555 and starting with 2 are LR5555A
Difference is July to December in 1977
Wipe off the top of your light bar and see if you can see a date with light at an angle.
Tried 4ea 9090 and 1 LR120 metal bars and there is NO date on them
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I think your failed light channel might be a design flaw on the earlier models. The 80W unit was fine. The 60W has the lamp holder protrusion crazed cracked and the meter channel cracking where the bend is at the light interface. The main channel protrusion has a bit of black electrical tape around part of it that had baked on. Would guess the tape was added at a lamp change long ago. Unlike the newer one the two pieces of plastic were jammed together.
Would guess the pressure over time with the heat of the lamp caused the cracking. The older one had no white reflective tape to reflect light to meters.
I started my light bar building when I got a couple of “parts” LR9090 that had the bar and cases missing. Had to build wooden cases also but didn’t inlet the screen like the Setton case. Happened I liked the colored LEDs better than the original so have converted my pile of 9090 to LED.
First you need to decide if you want to stick with the incandescent lights or go to LEDs and you were bending to original type lights. Warm white LEDs might give you the desired glow and no heat.
I am cutting new Plexiglas light channels and may try white LEDs in one. I drill the back metal and into plastic a little more than the length of the dome on domed LEDs. New or original plastic use a #29 drill and the LEDs stay in place will. I use a drill press. If you wobble drilling and the LEDs want to fall out a tiny bit of hot glue will hold them. Using strings of LEDs I am not limited to a few lamps so will make 2 separate light channels. Generally make the meters a different color than the dial. White paint on the right edge white also to stop light bleed from / to the meter channel. Increase the slant of the meter channel to reach the back of the metal channel depending on the dial cord and paint the left edge to stop light bleed to the dial bar.
Use the 2 holes that the original light channel used for mounting. I prefer to drill and tap plastic for 4-40 screws in place of drilling and using screws up into metal. Use care tapping. Kryoil, silicon lube or equivalent helps a LOT to eliminate tap binding in plastic. Use 2 small C clamps to keep the plastic in place while drilling the 2 holes for whatever method you choose. Make and install the meter channel first if you are changing it. Test position the dial light channel before drilling to save having to cut off the meter end.
On some I choose the lazy way and just drill the back of the original light channel. There is enough space from dial to meters that color light bleed not too bad. Red & blue are purple fringing not bad. Red & green are brown fringing not to my liking.
The LR-120DB has 2 sets of meters over the dial. My new meter light channels are isolated with tin foil to stop light bleed top to bottom. Happen to like the red meters surrounded by blue and blue slide rule dial under.
Some of the Plexiglas I have is a bit too thick and impedes the dial pointer movement. An added a #6 flat washer under the metal at each corner screw holes is enough to clear the pointer. The thicker Plexiglas was also easier to drill center. Even if the drill breaks through a side it is no problem with LED light transmission. Nor is the opaque front of hole from drilling.
Meter Channel
There is a notch in the center of the 5555 and a deep slot in the 440 to hold the center on the center support between the meters. It takes some experimenting to get the angles top and bottom. The front panel is bent out where the meters mount so mating angles take a bit of doing.
The original ones have 2 little feet for spacers to the top of front panel. To get the mounting hole correct, I C clamp a flat piece of metal across where the light bar would fit. Hold the meter channel in place at the meters and against the flat bar. Then drill a slanted hole through the original mounting screw hole to get the correct slant. Drill slowly with minimum bit exposed out of the chuck to help control walking until the hole is established . Plexiglas is soft so bit walking is not much of a problem. Drill size is for a 4-40 tap. Tap the hole and use a flat head screw to hold channel in place. Adjust the screw to get the back edge at the right height. I’m guessing you are in a metric country so will go the metric screw route. The flat head bevel helps with alignment and not getting the head too high. The dial plate is part of what holds the meters in place so must be installed.
White paint for the channel back cut is to reflect light down to dial and meters. First experiment was “White Out” So far my best results are with Zinsser Bulls Eye 123 primer and worst is spray gloss white enamel.
The better the polish the better the light bending. Using lead files (like in auto body work) almost polishes Plexiglas. The learning curve on how to hold, tilt & move lead files lets your excess blood out.
Depending on the stock and size of piece to be cut, either a table saw or compound miter saw is used. Feed speed is a balance of safety and cut edge melting from the carbide blade. Filing takes care of the melting and cleans up well enough for me.
The 440 /5555 light bar is just a cutoff 9090 bar. The 660 is just slightly off. Lay the Plastic in and look at the placement. Three bulbs just like their big brothers, one for the meters one center dial and one behind the dial weight. BLA!
Using with LEDs and drilling the back side gets proper IMHO spacing. Color or white is a choice and can easily be changed.
Power source is the green wires that run down to PS board and there is plenty power for another light. The Power Supply PCB was modified adding a diode, filter cap & bleeder for LEDs. "Power ON" is the only grain of wheat powered by this source. Half wave was used to limit the DC voltage of first try may not play well. Will post pictures and details when finished.
The original wedge base bulbs need a non-acid solder flux to tin the ?iron? bulb wires.
Pilot (green) winding OC 8.2 VAC
Original dial pilots:
1ea 290ma 8.11 VAC
2ea 580ma 8.07 VAC
3ea 860ma 8.03 VAC
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Bert Beukema
Well-Known Member
*wow* Now that's what I call a write-up! I've checked mine inside-out but there are no dates on it. Funny thing is that the cracks are in exactly the same spot. Even funnier is that the solution implemented is exactly the same (black tape). Essentially one might think that the factory *knew* the part was likely to fail and added a 'failsafe' using tape before it even hit the street. In an otherwise well-built machine this is a rather strange failure & approach. Perhaps they didn't have time to do an endurance test and when they were hit with problems from users they didn't have the money to change this part for the better.
I'm going to have to read and re-read your post this weekend. Cutting plexiglass is absolutely not my forte, to preserve my sanity I stopped doing that a long time ago, ha ha ha ha. However, I was indeed planning on changing the lighting rail to a led system with two colors (dials and tuner). I'll need to think about the correct approach regarding the plexiglass. Aside from a nasty buzz it would be the last thing that I still need to rebuild. And a variac ;-).
Unfortunately mine has been in the 'frustration station' for some weeks. I've completely rebuilt the machine including the case with a Zebrano veneer, with the exception of the lighting rail. It was in a bad condition and is looking great now. Problem is, there is a large buzz in the system that I can't seem to trace. It's volume independent so experience tells me that would be a grounding problem, power supply area issue or something in that area. Seeing that I had the spare parts and time I changed the most suspect parts (would have changed them anyway), re-traced the soldering, grounds, wiring etc etc. Tested the PSU and power across the board, all checks out fine. No such luck with this machine, it seems they have the devil in them. Ghost in the machine ;-). Seems that I need to get the old oscilloscope and do some extra tracing, although a voice in my head says 'It's the Sanken, you dummy'.
Regards,
Bert
I'm going to have to read and re-read your post this weekend. Cutting plexiglass is absolutely not my forte, to preserve my sanity I stopped doing that a long time ago, ha ha ha ha. However, I was indeed planning on changing the lighting rail to a led system with two colors (dials and tuner). I'll need to think about the correct approach regarding the plexiglass. Aside from a nasty buzz it would be the last thing that I still need to rebuild. And a variac ;-).
Unfortunately mine has been in the 'frustration station' for some weeks. I've completely rebuilt the machine including the case with a Zebrano veneer, with the exception of the lighting rail. It was in a bad condition and is looking great now. Problem is, there is a large buzz in the system that I can't seem to trace. It's volume independent so experience tells me that would be a grounding problem, power supply area issue or something in that area. Seeing that I had the spare parts and time I changed the most suspect parts (would have changed them anyway), re-traced the soldering, grounds, wiring etc etc. Tested the PSU and power across the board, all checks out fine. No such luck with this machine, it seems they have the devil in them. Ghost in the machine ;-). Seems that I need to get the old oscilloscope and do some extra tracing, although a voice in my head says 'It's the Sanken, you dummy'.
Regards,
Bert
Got 440-2 running OK. Got that rebuild about ready to post
However 440-1 has at least 1 problem I'm sorting out
It also has a .0047 across the inputs of both S60W
It also has 47K across R11 & R12 both 330K
IC1 circuit C5 (7pF) to input pin 6 has a 5pF in parallel
IC2 has the extra 5pF across C8 (7pF)
Wonder if yours have them and how they are hooked up. First guess is one of the 5pF caps is not in right place. I am guessing they are to stop high frequency oscillation.
The 440-2 has C5 of 14pF and C7 as 12pF Can't read other channel or LR5555A without taring apart.
EDIT
It is interesting to look at the application circuit on page 2 of the ECG 3 page data sheet - (from datasheet archive). it has C8 = 10pF, C6 = 50pF, R12 = 47K, filter R10 =2K & C18 10mF as well as a few other differences. The .0047 from pin 2 to 6 on IC1 is obviously for high frequency oscillation. Also a nifty little circuit to adjust bias. Easy to see where the parts on the back of the card came from.
END EDIT
Also note that filter cap C97 in the PS section located on the back of the Rx board silk screen has the - on the wrong end. The silk screen on my 440-2 and the 5555A are correct.
Between the PA and RX there is a TB for the "Selector" grain of wheat lights. The end near the front panel with 3 red wires on the 440-1 has a diode with the cathode running to the junction of D1 & R22 on the Rx board. Do you have it in yours? The 440-2 and 5555A did not have it. I've got readings on the 440-2 and am not changing out those 3 grain of wheat on the 440-1 till I figure out why it is added. R22 goes to pin 2 of the AM chip which turns AM on when energized. The R22 Value of 560K is direct from the Hitachi data sheet.
440-2 Junction R22 & D1 reads +1.9V except in AM is 13.06 to turn it on
440-1 with the diode off reads the same as 440-2. With diode connected is 6.9V except AM at 12.3. The voltage on the red wires is 7.3V except in FM & AM is 0 (FM light is burned out so would expect 0 anyway). Can see no reason for diode. Don't want the AM chip to turn on except in AM. There can be a problem with the switch that controls the lights I'll cover in a later post
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Both the 440-1 & 440-2 Had the Line voltage selectors set to 110VAC.
Both have the same transformer part number.
The LR5555A transformer is different. No line voltage selector.
Data sheets so far found:
1 page of 2 pages held flat and scanned has pin out and a bit of data for S-40 to S-100 including the S-80W
1 page SenKen sheet from a site with language I don’t recognize (looks Slavic to me) sheet is complete circuit with internal part values for S-40,60 & 100W
3 page Phillips ECG1354 ECG1355 with plenty of info (S-60 & 100W equivalent) Full schematic, no part values and operating curves.
All agree that the S-60W has a Max supply of +/- 50V and operating supply of +/- 40V
The max for the S-80W is +/- 55V and operating +/- 45
The 440-1 PA Vcc with line selector set to 110VAC is +/- 48.8V With the original caps that measure vary close to rated 10K MFD and hold voltage for days.
The 440-2 PA Vcc with line selector set to 110VAC is +/- 48V to 49V this one has new 12K MFD 63V caps
Actual line is 120.5 to 121.3 just now which is lower than normal.
State side AC line is 120VAC min and I don’t know if that is a law or just where all are. Most of the time I see around 125VAC.
440-1 Line voltage selector set to 130VAC the PA Vcc is +/- 41 with main at 120.1 VAC. This is where it will stay as long as it’s around here.
The 440-1 IC1 S-60W is shorted pins 1 to 3 and pins 5 to 7 Have a replacement on the way.
IC2 is OK.
I thought this one was OK when I tested it one time prior to cleaning other than a LOT of HUMMMMMMM.
The protective relay doesn’t pick up with IC1 removed. Tapping the output of IC2 direct to a speaker sounds fine.
Curious what the DC voltage you have on the PA inputs & outputs
440-1 starts about +500 mV at turn on and drifts to about -600mV in about 2 min. both right & left.
440-2 is -20mV both right & left
The PA outputs are around -20mV for the 440-2 and 440-1 IC2 same for the LR5555A
Both have the same transformer part number.
The LR5555A transformer is different. No line voltage selector.
Data sheets so far found:
1 page of 2 pages held flat and scanned has pin out and a bit of data for S-40 to S-100 including the S-80W
1 page SenKen sheet from a site with language I don’t recognize (looks Slavic to me) sheet is complete circuit with internal part values for S-40,60 & 100W
3 page Phillips ECG1354 ECG1355 with plenty of info (S-60 & 100W equivalent) Full schematic, no part values and operating curves.
All agree that the S-60W has a Max supply of +/- 50V and operating supply of +/- 40V
The max for the S-80W is +/- 55V and operating +/- 45
The 440-1 PA Vcc with line selector set to 110VAC is +/- 48.8V With the original caps that measure vary close to rated 10K MFD and hold voltage for days.
The 440-2 PA Vcc with line selector set to 110VAC is +/- 48V to 49V this one has new 12K MFD 63V caps
Actual line is 120.5 to 121.3 just now which is lower than normal.
State side AC line is 120VAC min and I don’t know if that is a law or just where all are. Most of the time I see around 125VAC.
440-1 Line voltage selector set to 130VAC the PA Vcc is +/- 41 with main at 120.1 VAC. This is where it will stay as long as it’s around here.
The 440-1 IC1 S-60W is shorted pins 1 to 3 and pins 5 to 7 Have a replacement on the way.
IC2 is OK.
I thought this one was OK when I tested it one time prior to cleaning other than a LOT of HUMMMMMMM.
The protective relay doesn’t pick up with IC1 removed. Tapping the output of IC2 direct to a speaker sounds fine.
Curious what the DC voltage you have on the PA inputs & outputs
440-1 starts about +500 mV at turn on and drifts to about -600mV in about 2 min. both right & left.
440-2 is -20mV both right & left
The PA outputs are around -20mV for the 440-2 and 440-1 IC2 same for the LR5555A
