Large Scale Speaker Sound.

If a person is playing with affordable vintage receivers and speakers the results may be limited. They might not have all the imaging and staging and whatever else would be nice to have. But there's no reason not to have good and big sound with it.
It doesn't cost much, it's available, it's easy to figure out. The more I hear it the more important it becomes.
My bookshelf speakers are nice both small and large. But they don't do what my big floor speakers do. Not even close. Very simple to understand.
I think I'll finish up my Electro Voice Empire speakers this weekend. I imagine they'll have a nice big sound. Hopefully good also.

Those huge floor standers from the late 50s to the late 60s were perfect for the furniture style of the time; the seating was a LOT lower than it is now. My wife and I went full on mid century modern in our decor the last year.....but one thing we could not do is buy the vintage sofa and chairs: everything is too low to get our old fat asses up from them!

If a tweeter in a speaker is not at ear level when seated it does not sound nearly as good to me. That is why I went with the vintage larger "bookshelf" models on stands.....they are at ear level when sitting on modern furniture height. Since the guy at Neal's Speaker Service did such a nice job rebuilding my KLH 6s I am thinking about having him rebuild the Optimus 6s I am using for speaker stands....and using them for the main HT speakers.

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I had to look that up on YouTube. It's the Genesis "Selling England by the Pound"?, and the song .....Firth of Fifth?

I couldn't detect much deep bass, what am I missing?

the bass weight of the piano is impressive. on the intro, If you aren't 'feeling' the bass notes, somethings wrong. once the full band comes in, and those low bass pedals start to get used, it's even better.

listening on magnepan 1.6QR and a M&K sealed 10" sub. I love this album, and listen to it regularly
 
Those huge floor standers from the late 50s to the late 60s were perfect for the furniture style of the time; the seating was a LOT lower than it is now. My wife and I went full on mid century modern in our decor the last year.....but one thing we could not do is buy the vintage sofa and chairs: everything is too low to get our old fat asses up from them!

If a tweeter in a speaker is not at ear level when seated it does not sound nearly as good to me. That is why I went with the vintage larger "bookshelf" models on stands.....they are at ear level when sitting on modern furniture height. Since the guy at Neal's Speaker Service did such a nice job rebuilding my KLH 6s I am thinking about having him rebuild the Optimus 9s I am using for speaker stands....and using them for the main HT speakers.

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That setup is nice and very similar to my music monitoring setup height also.
 
I also agree that there is something about big speakers that just sound, well, bigger. I had Altec VOTT A7-500's and they cranked. The bass didn't actually go much below 55hz or so, but they put out so much sound with so little wattage that it wasn't so noticable at first. Eventually I needed more bass though, and they were also too big for my space.

I now have smaller horns that are less efficient but go deeper on bass, and higher on highs (Fostex LS/2) and I bought a pair of Kef LS50 Wireless to see what all the fuss was about. Wow, these KEFs sound so much bigger than they look, but then I put on my Fostex horns and they just sound so much more expansive than the Kef's somehow. The KEF's have a huge sound from a little box, but there's no making up for larger speakers I suppose. Now I'm wondering how it would sound if I got a sub, or two subs, for the Kef's. I would assume using subs with bookshelf speakers gives the speakers a sound more on par with larger format speakers?
 
. Now I'm wondering how it would sound if I got a sub, or two subs, for the Kef's. I would assume using subs with bookshelf speakers gives the speakers a sound more on par with larger format speakers?

There is no substitute for displacement, as the more cone surface area there is to push and excite more air in your room, the more you are going to FEEL the music. Like the movie quote I listed before. " I'm not talking about the kind of sound you just listen to, I'm talking about the kind of sound you can feel " and " when it comes to great stereos you need big speakers, I'm talkin big speakers with big woofers."
" no audiophile can ever ignore the importance of bass "
 
low frequency cutoff does not have to drop to 20hz , to get the nice musical low end of a large scale speaker. This i feel strongly about. i like the lows at least at 35hz if not even 40hz , this helps the more important frequencies to balance out. I have pushed 40hz and asked people about the lows and they thought it was below 20 hz, without having to waste amp power on pushing 20hz. Even 60hz is surprisingly punchy and musical. I hate bloated sub frequencies washing out a nice set of mid and high drivers, that are crossed over just right. ANYBODY can buy a 15" woofer and feed it power to bloat and distort and boom, anybody, this is not our sound. this is not a instant gratification speaker setup. I think Frequencies, low cutoff, and crossover points are usually considered to set up a large scale speaker.
 
I have a pair of JBL 4355's flat on the floor no risers, Oh yeah there is no substitute for large speakers, I rarely exceed a few watts continuous power and the you are there effect is nothing short of astonishing however after reading this thread I am wondering if I am missing something concerning height and or angle??? Have not felt the need to manipulate them and 265lbs puts me in the need to skip class mode. what I find interesting is that I see these and many other large monitors used in a multitude of different heights, angles, in wall, up high club style but rarely flat on the ground as I have mine, seems to me they may be less placement critical than other boxes maybe? I have always been told that bass response is best when the drivers and or box is closer to the floor so I have never used stands or risers although the 4355's should have risers under them and at approx 2 inches I am not sure that would make much of any difference? or would it?
 
I have a pair of JBL 4355's flat on the floor no risers, Oh yeah there is no substitute for large speakers, I rarely exceed a few watts continuous power and the you are there effect is nothing short of astonishing however after reading this thread I am wondering if I am missing something concerning height and or angle??? Have not felt the need to manipulate them and 265lbs puts me in the need to skip class mode. what I find interesting is that I see these and many other large monitors used in a multitude of different heights, angles, in wall, up high club style but rarely flat on the ground as I have mine, seems to me they may be less placement critical than other boxes maybe? I have always been told that bass response is best when the drivers and or box is closer to the floor so I have never used stands or risers although the 4355's should have risers under them and at approx 2 inches I am not sure that would make much of any difference? or would it?
Less critical speaker placement i think is true unless a horn is really killing you directly, But resonance and dispersion is usually large enough where 1” doesnt matter as much as the critical bookshelfs do. Large scale would be like asking a band to move to the left 1” lol, Not gonna change much. Although some do set ideal placement to tighten up the low end that can get a little wild sometimes with multiple or large drivers. E- Stats may be placement critical to the inch, but doesnt seem as though.
 
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But resonance and dispersion is usually large enough where 1” doesnt matter as much as the critical bookshelfs do. Large scale would be like asking a band to move to the left 1” lol, Not gonna change much. Although some do set ideal placement to tighten up the low end that can get a little wild sometimes with multiple or large drivers. E- Stats may be placement critical to the inch, but doesnt seem as though.
As for me, I find that neither size nor weight negates the value of proper placement for any speaker. Especially the very best. Placement of Harry Pearson's big Nolas was fine tuned by Carl Marchisotto himself in Room #3. I heard the larger still Grand Exoticas in that room and can tell you its holographic presentation was phenomenal.

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Dipolar electrostat placement involves two separate criteria: optimum distance to front wall for the most linear bass and precise positioning including toe-in for the best soundstage. While I weigh a buck fifty-five soaking wet, I nudged my 270 lb U-1s about and experimented greatly with positioning measuring the results each time. I recently had to move all the gear out of the room for new carpet. They were precisely returned to their original position

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As for me, I find that neither size nor weight negates the value of proper placement for any speaker. Especially the very best. Placement of Harry Pearson's big Nolas was fine tuned by Carl Marchisotto himself in Room #3. I heard the larger still Grand Exoticas in that room and can tell you its holographic presentation was phenomenal.

nolagrand3.jpg


Dipolar electrostat placement involves two separate criteria: optimum distance to front wall for the most linear bass and precise positioning including toe-in for the best soundstage. While I weigh a buck fifty-five soaking wet, I nudged my 270 lb U-1s about and experimented greatly with positioning measuring the results each time. I recently had to move all the gear out of the room for new carpet. They were precisely returned to their original position

system.jpg
[/QUOTEthanks for the pics and information!
 
Just read this thread and agree with many here. There is just something so easy and relaxing about big drivers effortlessly moving a lot of air. Nothing sounds the least bit forced. I have a pair of homemade open baffles that each baffle has an Eminence built 15" bass driver run by a hefty plate amp which covers the range from 25 Hz to 100 Hz, where a vintage pair of Electro-Voice 12TRXB's handle everything up to around 12 kHz. An up firing super tweeter handles from there to 20 kHz. Music just rolls out of these with no effort. I use an 11 watt SEP tube amp on the EV speaker, which is rated at 95 dB sensitivity 16 ohm. Even music with little bass sounds better with that effortlessness of presentation.
I have tried going back to smaller drivers a couple of times, but keep coming back to big ones. They just sound so right.
I "get it".

Dave :D
 
A good friend of mine as both L200's (new in 1977) and Altec 19's, I have enjoyed them for a very long time. We have enjoyed all types of music, the spacial sound is "you are there".
My L200t3 are close in a 12 x 18 room but still not the impact of the 15" woofers. Sound stage is what we are all after.
 
A good friend of mine as both L200's (new in 1977) and Altec 19's, I have enjoyed them for a very long time. We have enjoyed all types of music, the spacial sound is "you are there".
My L200t3 are close in a 12 x 18 room but still not the impact of the 15" woofers. Sound stage is what we are all after.
You are very lucky to get to listen to both. Curious which you prefer.
Glenn
 
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You are very lucky to get to listen to both. Curious which you prefer.
Glenn
He has 2 different listening areas. The L200's are in his family room, 18 x 24 with cathedral ceiling projecting into the kitchen, powered by Phase Linear. Open sound stage envelops you. The altecs are in the unfinished basement driven by a Adcom 555 and Mac C28 more like a roller rink. The Altecs have a larger presence , more dynamic. Both knock your socks off, the difference between a 10" naval gun and a 16" gun.
 
IMO You can't beat the sound stage created by a large driver. My question is why on Earth did larger format speakers ever fall out of favor with consumers? Places like Cambridge Audio started pushing these micro speakers with pancake subs you could hide under a couch back in the early 90's and convinced a lot of people they produced sound that was "as good as the big speakers without taking up all that space".
 
Excellent and noteworthy thread. Self proclaimed and shameless scale junkie here. Magnepans were the gateway drug...big Infinity and Altec made my eyes roll back in my head and drool drip from the corner of my mouth. When high quality, well designed speakers with ample radiating surface area are matched to a room with favorable acoustics/interior volume for the design and located optimally the experience can be like nothing else. An aural experience becomes visual and tactile in a way that at first is slightly confusing for the mind to compute and the body has a physiological reaction that activates the production of the “feel good chemicals”. Large scale, 2-channel sonic reproduction, done properly, will truly get the juices a flowin’. Once I went to that place, I didn’t want to go anywhere else.

Michael

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IMO You can't beat the sound stage created by a large driver. My question is why on Earth did larger format speakers ever fall out of favor with consumers?
Well that one is simple ... it's because "large floor standing speakers" are well, "Large!" :)
Vintage Stereo, consoles to name uh one dirty cheap "large Scale" option suffer from "size" all the time! Tube Amped beauties for the most part but time has ravaged the capacitors. So now a days untouched ... they tend to sound like crap! So you know why bother?? I got a sub and I have whatever "small speakers" and it sounds "pretty freaking good" so why bother with this real estate sucking beast??

Vintage large scale speakers are rare kindy pricy and tend to need work? Consoles with tubes amps need to work but the cost for entry can be uh dirt cheap. :)

Places like Cambridge Audio started pushing these micro speakers with pancake subs you could hide under a couch back in the early 90's and convinced a lot of people they produced sound that was "as good as the big speakers without taking up all that space".
Aww well there's the "rub!" I think this thread started with "most people have never heard, large floor standing speakers??"

And that is the thing. One can't miss ... what they have never heard?? Large floor standing monsters can do what they do "because" they are well large??? Decades ago I bought my first sub and it goes to uh ... 16 hz?? I paired it up with Ortofon Speakers" and a monster amp and I was pretty content and good to go! I wish I still had that gear ... but "Crap Happens!"

At any rate, time goes by and I was quite content with my KG 4 sub system it went down low with that sub so I never really cared about "low bass??" Time goes by ... and one day ... I find the manger at "Century Stereo" in San Jose in CA and it's a slow day and we talk about well "stereo stuff." :)

And he says well ... you should heard these speakers. Well I was "lucky" cuz these monsters were well out of the range of anything I could afford or fit in my home! True Floor Standing Monsters! I was sure they were ADS?? But the I remerer a lot of woofers, mid and tweeters and a "Kilo Watt" amp installed in them?? But whatever ... what I do remember accurately ... is on vinyl on "Fresh Aire, Bach's Toccata and Fugue!" And when the low note on the organ hit ... it sent a wave of sound that blew threw my chest and pasted me to the couch! I was freaking stunned!!

I still remember that! And I'm sorry I don't think that can be done with a sub and small speakers?? Those monsters whatever they were "pressurized" the whole room!

There is no replacement for displacement! But ... live and learn as it were, and while you I don't think, you one can do that "Pressurize a room" with a room with small " speakers" regards of what they happen to be?? I do then that with enough large "Bookshelf" speakers ... you can??

The "Advent Stacks" from way back in the day. I think "pressurizing the room" was a part of the "magic??" But they made of mention of it at the time???

But it gets back into the real estate thing?? I have two "Mach One's" with a sub and well LX 5's all running together (it's what I do) and at about 80 watt's with 84.5 db peaks ... it seems that will almost "fully pressurize the room?? Well you know if two Mach One's are good ... maybe four or "gooder??"

Maybe it will but at that point your entering "freakishly large town anyway" with whatever largish bookshelf, you chose to use. Twice the weight and twice the height! Your are now gonna have a "large" stack of speakers ... so much for "saving space!!

And if you not a "bachelor??" I'm not sure you're gonna sneak that kinda crap, pass c your better half?? I replaced my Sansui SP 1200's with my Mach One's and it only took one day before before my better half have said "uh what are those??"

So two two Mach One's, did not escape her notice and four certainly would not! But yeah to the point of the thread ... "there is no replacement for displacement!" Small Speakers and a Sub are just not the same??

And justy cranking up the volume on the sub ... is npot really that same as?? I guess, I could do that I suppose but I never have. Just my 2 cents. :)
 
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