Let your pet dog listen to & choose the best speaker cables!

[fropiler]

Sorry, but I disagree with those of you who say if you can't hear it, it doesn't matter. Here is an easy example to understand. You can't see UV radiation, yet it burns your skin and strains your eyes. Should you not worry about it, just because you can't see it?

This example is irrelevant. Unless you're trying to tell us that there is something "dangerous" to be listening for.

If you can't hear it, you can't hear it. Period.

 

[Herr Eickhorn]

This example is irrelevant. Unless you're trying to tell us that there is something "dangerous" to be listening for.

If you can't hear it, you can't hear it. Period.

Don’t fall into the trap of saying to yourself, if I can’t hear it, it doesn’t matter. There is much in life that falls below our threshold of perception, yet affects us.

UV rays, which we can’t see, burn our skin and can cause macular degeneration in our eyes.

Chemicals, that we ingest, that we can’t taste, can poison us.

Bacteria and virus, which we can neither see, hear, feel, smell or taste can kill us.

The military has worked on an ultra high frequency weapon that you cannot hear but will shatter your ear bones (stapes, malleus, and incus) and leave you deaf. They have a laser, which you cannot see, that will blind you.

Just because you cannot consciously perceive something, doesn’t mean it can’t affect you.

 

[House de Kris]

Now that this has been established as a serious subject, I do have a serious comment for you. In all of your examples of animals using their superior senses for the benefit of man, you mention that the animals are trained. The training process rewards behaviour on the part of the animal with treats. They learn what is expected of them, and they repeat the trick to get a treat. Unfortunately, your cable selection process has had no training benefit for the dog. Thus, the dog is in the dark about what is in your mind. You must somehow convey to the dog what sensory phenomena you are expecting from your dog. Just assuming his values mirror yours is stretching it a bit. You'll probably gain a lot of credibility if you were to share with us how you train your dog to report good sound vs. bad sound. As in finding dead bodies, they are trained that finding that disgusting smell is what gets them a treat. Therefore, to train your dog, you must subject them to supersonics that you desire to have in a system, and repeatedly reward the dog for gravitating to it. THEN, once the dog is trained you can trust them to find it on their own.

One other thing, the popular notion that instruments just aren't sensitive enough to measure what's really important was probably appropriate a few decades ago. I suggest you may be surprized with the level of sensitivity and accuracy of today's modern test and measurement gear.

 

[fropiler]

You mean to tell this forum

That you have lurked for a year, and yet your first post is a cable thread?

And not just ANY cable thread - but one that elevates the debate to new levels of absurdity. Why just speaker cable? why shouldn't your Schnauzer select your speakers? or would a Collie be better suited?

I seriously thought you were joking.

 

[Herr Eickhorn]

That you have lurked for a year, and yet your first post is a cable thread?

And not just ANY cable thread - but one that elevates the debate to new levels of absurdity. Why just speaker cable? why shouldn't your Schnauzer select your speakers? or would a Collie be better suited?

I seriously thought you were joking.

FYI - his name is Sputnik, a Jack Russell terrier.

I have proposed that a dog is better at picking out the best sounding audio components than you. Just as your kid is better at picking out the best than you too. Just as you are better at picking out the best than your parents. Of course, this statement is predicated on the fact that the best ears pick the best components.

Now, there seems to be a huge debate on whether speaker cables make a difference. I have proposed that a properly trained dog, because of his superior hearing, can and will pick out the best cables for your system. I am sorry if I have offended some people’s sensibilities.

I have assumed that if you are on this message board you are interested in getting the best quality sound possible. You want the try to achieve sound perfection, even though your hearing may be imperfect. If this is so, I encourage you to entreat the help of your pet dog.

Some have said, if I can’t hear it, it doesn’t matter. I have a wonderful suggestion for you. See a doctor and get your hearing tested. Many will find that they have significant hearing loss. Once your quality of hearing is determined, you should buy audio components accordingly. In other words, your audio system quality should be commensurate with your hearing quality. In other words, don’t spend $50,000.00 on an audio system if you have $50.00 ears. Wall Mart may be able to supply audio equipment compatible with your hearing. You may find that you can save thousands, or even tens of thousands of dollars. And while you may not like my idea of having your dog pick out your components, you should like this idea to save money. Everyone likes to save money.

 

[john_w]

A note in your favor...

A quote from...a guy I know who posted in this thread:

maybe the animal will catch subtleties right away that would only show up as fatigue over time in humans.

It's not that it has to be capable of doing us harm, as fropiler suggested, but fatigue can set in very quickly because of something...unexplainable that the sound is doing to us, or maybe even physically affecting us in other ways. Ever listen to a system for a while but just feel physically drained for no apparent reason? So yes, I get that point.

But I think the most common objection here is still valid. We don't know what's different about how an animal perceives what it hears or exactly what it favors. At least not enough to determine subtleties of sound. And what is "better"? Lots of people prefer the warm sound of tubes, even though they produce a lot more distortion than competent solid state systems. If people can't arrive at a consistant conclusion on what "better" means, how is a completely different species going to decide for us?

 

[jaymanaa]

Welcome to AK Herr Eickhorn, Interesting experiment there...

Allow me to propose one possible wrinkle though. You're exactly right when you say that a dog's hearing is far superior to a human's, but there's another attribute that might be worth considering also. Dog's not only hear the same sounds far better than we do, they can hear things we can't. They can perceive signals that are thousands of cycles beyond the best human ears. Witness the silent (to humans at least) dog whistle. Isn't it possible that if the sound being reproduced is potentially unpleasant, irritating, or painful to a dog, that the cable that reproduces the better quality of signal would be the most repellant?

At best, when it comes to music, my dogs (I have four), normally just tolerate it. There are even certain pieces I play (generally things with high strings or winds) that send my dogs in the opposite direction howling, and they've all grown up around audio gear. I can only surmise that there are aural components invisible to my ears which are extremely unpleasant to my dogs.

I really do think it's an interesting project you have there, I'm just proposing a possible twist. Once again, welcom to AK!

Fotno, Try some early Bill Monroe, my dog's love it (esp. for breakfast):thmbsp:

 

[meggy]

Here's what Baron does everytime the music starts, at any volume. I've shown this B4. Sits and stares at you likes he's trying to tell you something important. Doesn't wince or whine or seem like he's hurting. Every once in a while he'll let out a single BARK!, like he's pissed. It's just bizzare. Funny, but annoying as hell.

 

[House de Kris]

...Just as your kid is better at picking out the best than you too... Of course, this statement is predicated on the fact that the best ears pick the best components.

Even though a kid may have superior hearing to me, he still might not have the years of experience I do to even KNOW what is better sounding. It's called ear training and it takes years to gain. OK, so now you are stating that it is a FACT that best ears pick the best components. This isn't an opinion? This is a fact? Got any references you'd like to share on this fact.

I have proposed that a properly trained dog...

Did you mention anything about requiring a properly trained dog previously? If so, I guess I missed it. Would you please explain the training required to properly train the dog?

I have assumed that if you are on this message board you are interested in getting the best quality sound possible. You want the try to achieve sound perfection, even though your hearing may be imperfect. If this is so, I encourage you to entreat the help of your pet dog.

In this case, I agree with your assumption (we have an interest in quality sound). But, I cannot speak for others here, so only my opinion agrees with your assumption. For whatever that is worth. Actually, if my golden retriever, George, was still alive, I would have tried this suggestion out just to see for myself. All I've got now is a cat, a very nice blue koret, but still a cat, nevertheless. Is it safe to assume this thread is only dedicated to dogs?

 

[Herr Eickhorn]

Here's what Baron does everytime the music starts, at any volume. I've shown this B4. Sits and stares at you likes he's trying to tell you something important. Doesn't wince or whine or seem like he's hurting. Every once in a while he'll let out a single BARK!, like he's pissed. It's just bizzare. Funny, but annoying as hell.

Meggy,

He appears to be listening very closely. You may have an audiophile dog. Have you run some tests? What kind of cables do you use?

 

[Herr Eickhorn]

A quote from...a guy I know who posted in this thread:



It's not that it has to be capable of doing us harm, as fropiler suggested, but fatigue can set in very quickly because of something...unexplainable that the sound is doing to us, or maybe even physically affecting us in other ways. Ever listen to a system for a while but just feel physically drained for no apparent reason? So yes, I get that point.

John,

You stated it much more eloquently than I could. Thanks.

 

[Herr Eickhorn]

Kris,

I understand why some people don’t want to believe what I am saying. After all, if some terrier trotted into my house, and indicated my $80,000.00 vacuum tube audio set up sounded like a pile of dog @$%&, I would be disbelieving and resentful too.

So, let’s switch gears and talk about a hypothetical situation involving another sense - sight. So here we go. You and your pet eagle, take a wrong turn, and get lost in the wilderness one fine November day. You wander around for days without food. Most animals have gone into hibernation already, so the pickings are slim. Both you and eagle are exhausted and near death from lack of food. You crest a hill using your last bit of energy. Way down below, in the valley, are four dots. You can tell each one is a rabbit but can’t see them well enough to tell anything else. However, one rabbit is well fed, plump, juicy and capable of nourishing both you and the eagle. The other three rabbits are near death from starvation and are nothing but fur and bones. Your last shred of energy will be used in this hunt so you can’t make a bad decision. You must pick one of them to eat but which one? If you pick the wrong one to go after, it will be the end of you and the eagle. So, the question is: who picks the potential last supper, you, or the eagle?

Just answer the simple question. No jibber jabber.

 

[fropiler]

This is sheer nonsense

You are trolling, And I'm calling you out on it. please take your BS elsewhere.

Kris,

I understand why some people don’t want to believe what I am saying. After all, if some terrier trotted into my house, and indicated my $80,000.00 vacuum tube audio set up sounded like a pile of dog @$%&, I would be disbelieving and resentful too.

So, let’s switch gears and talk about a hypothetical situation involving another sense - sight. So here we go. You and your pet eagle, take a wrong turn, and get lost in the wilderness one fine November day. You wander around for days without food. Most animals have gone into hibernation already, so the pickings are slim. Both you and eagle are exhausted and near death from lack of food. You crest a hill using your last bit of energy. Way down below, in the valley, are four dots. You can tell each one is a rabbit but can’t see them well enough to tell anything else. However, one rabbit is well fed, plump, juicy and capable of nourishing both you and the eagle. The other three rabbits are near death from starvation and are nothing but fur and bones. Your last shred of energy will be used in this hunt so you can’t make a bad decision. You must pick one of them to eat but which one? If you pick the wrong one to go after, it will be the end of you and the eagle. So, the question is: who picks the potential last supper, you, or the eagle?

Just answer the simple question. No jibber jabber.

 

[Herr Eickhorn]

fropiler,

Your thoughts on this?

 

[fropiler]

fropiler,

Your thoughts on this?

My thoughts are that you continue to troll, and that the mods will grow tired of it.

 

[House de Kris]

Just answer the simple question. No jibber jabber.

No jibber jabber?!? Well, count me out then. BTW, no one ever said your setup was dog doo-doo. We were just responding to your bizarre belief in your pet. Being a belief, you are certainly welcome to keep and foster it.

I think I'll decline comment on your survival story. I come to AK for audio discussion since audio is one of my predominate passions, almost as much as engineering. I did happen to notice you are avoiding answering my questions which are pretinent to this thread you started, which is about audio.

I do look forward to hearing other thoughts, opinions, and beliefs you have with respect to audio in future threads. If you don't masquerade them as fact, I doubt people (myself specifically) will push back as hard.

 

[fotno]

I am having trouble getting my dog to participate.

Pit Bulls are renowned for their tin ears and complete lack of appreciation for good tunes.:thumbsdn:

Herbman, that is one seriously beautiful dog you have there... What a sweetie!

 

[Dusty Chalk]

This is just silly. Music listening is subjective. People with tinnitus might be sensitive to brighter systems and want a darker system, whereas your dog might prefer a brighter system. And even if there is even a smidgen of possibility to this bizarre postulation -- and I don't believe it for a second -- there was zero discussion in the original post in how the dog was trained to tell of its preferences, which would have been the single hardest thing to do.

I call bullshit!

 

[fropiler]

This is just silly. Music listening is subjective. People with tinnitus might be sensitive to brighter systems and want a darker system, whereas your dog might prefer a brighter system. And even if there is even a smidgen of possibility to this bizarre postulation -- and I don't believe it for a second -- there was zero discussion in the original post in how the dog was trained to tell of its preferences, which would have been the single hardest thing to do.

I call bullshit!

Thank you.

We need a "Dollars and Nonsense" forum.

 

[blue_lateral]

I don't have a dog. I was toying with the idea of borrowing the neighbor's dog and trying it, but about that time he started howling along with a fire truck siren, out of key. I decided our musical tastes were too different.