Let's compare: Sansui Eight & Kenwood 700M

[davstev]

Hi Sansui'ers,

Tell me why, the extraordinarily well built and much lauded Sansui Eight (non-deluxe) would sound better, or different in an appealing way, than the Kenwood 700M, also adored by many. I have a nice 700M, and perhaps crazily, at no small expense, I am considering acquiring a Sansui 8.

I know that they are different, power amp vs. receiver, plus specs are different.

I'm driving a pair of Tannoy Gold 12".

Just having fun here, but if anyone has actual comparative experiences, do tell.

Thanks!

 

[ghamilton]

I love my sansui, but a rebuilt 700M is a keeper.

 

[davstev]

I love my sansui, but a rebuilt 700M is a keeper.

I may have the chance to compare them myself. (I also have a Threshold 400A that I'm using now, and in my opinion bettered the 700M, which I recapped a few years ago. Will throw that into the mix too!)

 

[ManyMoonsAudio]

700M is rather special, and quite a different beast of an amp compared to most anything out there. It is so incredibly dynamic and the bass is unbeatable period. It takes mere seconds of listening to it to realize it is different (special different)

 

[LBPete]

You are not comparing apples to apples here. The Eight is a 60 wpc receiver, the 700M is a 170 wpc power amp a generation newer design than the Eight. To be fair you should compare it to a BA-3000.

- Pete

 

[stereofun]

Seems like an odd comparison - a 60 W Receiver with a TOTL Power amp - But I am with you as far as the fun of comparing different amps and their designs. Sometimes you run into huge surprises, but I don't think the Eight is a match, except in build quality. Do make sure the Eight is fully adjusted, this will make a big difference being one of a few amps where you can balance the differential amp.

 

[davstev]

To be certain, they are fundamentally different creatures. But these are two amps that people rave about, almost universally, and that is why I'm interested in comparing.

Also, I've sometimes wondered whether my rather efficient Tannoy Gold 12" speakers are better suited to a lower wattage amp like the Sansui Eight vs. the 700M.

On another note, I'm curious to what extent people get influenced by build quality, appearance, and knowing it's place in audio history, over sheer sonic performance, comparatively speaking. When people speak of the Sansui eight (and it's immediate siblings) the most common thing mentioned seems to be build quality, perhaps even more than sound (which I know is subjective and hard to describe with precision). The consensus is that the eight sounds great, has ample power, no question there, but it's build quality that seems to be the crown it wears. I once owned a seven, thought it sounded very very good, but not extraordinary.

 

[davstev]

Seems like an odd comparison - a 60 W Receiver with a TOTL Power amp - But I am with you as far as the fun of comparing different amps and their designs. Sometimes you run into huge surprises, but I don't think the Eight is a match, except in build quality. Do make sure the Eight is fully adjusted, this will make a big difference being one of a few amps where you can balance the differential amp.

Great advice, thanks.

 

[LBPete]

On another note, I'm curious to what extent people get influenced by build quality, appearance, and knowing it's place in audio history, over sheer sonic performance, comparatively speaking.

All those factors and more, like rarity, provenance, or even an acquisition story all add up to what makes a favorite piece of audio gear. If you don't take those factors into account, get out the distortion analyzer and just go by the numbers.

Another word of caution in making the comparison. These units are 45 years old. The only true comparison is using two restored units. Otherwise the one that has degraded the least over time will sound best.

- Pete

 

[davstev]

All those factors and more, like rarity, provenance, or even an acquisition story all add up to what makes a favorite piece of audio gear. If you don't take those factors into account, get out the distortion analyzer and just go by the numbers.

Another word of caution in making the comparison. These units are 45 years old. The only true comparison is using two restored units. Otherwise the one that has degraded the least over time will sound best.

- Pete

I agree. It's all just stuff I think about. For example, I've never fully bonded with my Threshold 400A, which looks like darth vader's amp, looks out of place in my setup, but sounds amazing. So that is to say, all these other factors matter too.

Or the AU-9500 that I once owned, which I held onto because I loved the build quality, looks, and condition, despite not especially loving the sonic signature (not rebuilt; I found it a little lifeless with a tinny high end).

 

[Alobar]

Well, especially since this is Sansui's forum, I'd say you got pretty good advice. However I have a lot of love for vintage amps that were built with great care and quality. I could see the lure for wanting something like the 8 to experience that sort of quality from a different manufacturer. This is why people love to buy and sell I believe, the urge for something different. Not sure about the 8,but the 700M has a reputation for neutral sound. I know this is true for my restored 700M /C.

As for power, I really have no need for so much, and the 8 would be ample, but where I live so remote, I can't buy and sell gear very well so will never sell my 700 series. Also having a reciever here with just one mono fm station wouldn't make sense for me .

What are you using for (or are you using) a peamp? The 700C is a fine piece and the two are a perfect match for each other, both in appearance sound and build quality . I thinkI would just as likely be also looking for one of those and maybe even a 700T (while also looking for the Sansui) .

 

[davstev]

Well, especially since this is Sansui's forum, I'd say you got pretty good advice. However I have a lot of love for vintage amps that were built with great care and quality. I could see the lure for wanting something like the 8 to experience that sort of quality from a different manufacturer. This is why people love to buy and sell I believe, the urge for something different. Not sure about the 8,but the 700M has a reputation for neutral sound. I know this is true for my restored 700M /C.

As for power, I really have no need for so much, and the 8 would be ample, but where I live so remote, I can't buy and sell gear very well so will never sell my 700 series. Also having a reciever here with just one mono fm station wouldn't make sense for me .

What are you using for (or are you using) a peamp? The 700C is a fine piece and the two are a perfect match for each other, both in appearance sound and build quality . I think would just as likely be also looking for one of those and maybe even a 700T (while also looking for the Sansui) .

I have a preamp: an Accuphase C200. It's awesome. I'd consider it an excellent match for the 700M. I'd be interested in a 700C to compare, but I'll likely never have the chance.

The Sansui Eight, which I have bought and now awaiting delivery, has no real place in my system. But I bought it anyway! Crazy!

Btw, nice that you are up north. I spent some time in the Yukon. Beautiful.

Cheers,
David

 

[Alobar]

Yeah the wife is up there right now in Whitehorse on a shopping spree!

The Accuphase is no doubt a great pre for the 700, sounds like you got that covered. Will be interesting to know which wins out for you, Sansui or Kenwood. Make sure that they are both refreshed with new caps and whatnot to keep things fair..

 

[davstev]

Whitehorse and shopping! Wow, you're remote!

I suspect that the C200/700M is gonna win, but I am always open to surprises.

It's a frivolous purchase, this Sansui, that I've just made. It's not like I needed it or anything.

But yes, a recap is in order.

David

 

[Alobar]

Whitehorse and shopping! Wow, you're remote!

I suspect that the C200/700M is gonna win, but I am always open to surprises.

It's a frivolous purchase, this Sansui, that I've just made. It's not like I needed it or anything.

But yes, a recap is in order.

David

Whitehorse is about a 250 mile drive one way from here. Juneau Alaska is just 80 air miles but with no road there you have to take the ferry and that thing has had a huge hike in rates and it is now around $400 RT to get there.. Whitehorse is just gas money and we are thinking the exchange rate may make it just easier to do future business there instead of Juneau. We are looking into other things besides shopping. Our dog already has his vet needs there, and we are looking at possible dental and medical there. Also it has daily jet flights to Vancouver so it is just a shuttle flight to Seattle where we usually fly to from Juneau.

As for buying and selling heavy stereo equipment, we only have the US mail and barge service. The barge is for large pallet+ sized needs and the USPS has a 65lb limit and all mail flies in here in single engine airplanes so we are pretty restricted. I managed to get most of my 700M rebuilt by EchoWars due to the majority being modular boards that unplug. I did the output transistors myself. I did send the 700C out to him whole to be rebuilt as it was light enough, but the M is around 65ish pounds without any shipping box so it couldn't make the trip. I have had these 700's since new so there is a lot of sentimental value to them for me!

 

[sansuibutch]

You are not comparing apples to apples here. The Eight is a 60 wpc receiver, the 700M is a 170 wpc power amp a generation newer design than the Eight. To be fair you should compare it to a BA-3000.

- Pete

I would be interested in the comparison with the 700m and a sansui ba3000. I have a 3000 and never heard a the Kenwood. They weight in aboit the same but the thd is much higher on the Kenwood and the dampening is a lot lower. I do like the look of the Kenwood. It looks like a beast.

 

[davstev]

Whitehorse is about a 250 mile drive one way from here. Juneau Alaska is just 80 air miles but with no road there you have to take the ferry and that thing has had a huge hike in rates and it is now around $400 RT to get there.. Whitehorse is just gas money and we are thinking the exchange rate may make it just easier to do future business there instead of Juneau. We are looking into other things besides shopping. Our dog already has his vet needs there, and we are looking at possible dental and medical there. Also it has daily jet flights to Vancouver so it is just a shuttle flight to Seattle where we usually fly to from Juneau.

Hey, if you are considering having a pied-à-terre in Canada, why not? Once you are in the north, the idea of borders seems kind of arbitrary anyway. Plus, your US dollar goes pretty far.

Also, Echowars- say no more. He's a legend around here. But more than that- an actual guy, who gave me tons of invaluable guidance in my recap/partial rebuild of my 700M. Also, Brad, BKtheking- also amazingly helpful. Audiokarma's so great, isn't it???

 

[davstev]

I would be interested in the comparison with the 700m and a sansui ba3000. I have a 3000 and never heard a the Kenwood. They weight in aboit the same but the thd is much higher on the Kenwood and the dampening is a lot lower. I do like the look of the Kenwood. It looks like a beast.

That is indeed comparing apples with apples. Maybe someday I'll have the fortune of such a comparison.

 

[sansuibutch]

That is indeed comparing apples with apples. Maybe someday I'll have the fortune of such a comparison.

Hopefully me too