Little Dot I+ Headphone Amp Impressions

I'm sure you can use a regular preamp with the headphone amp, and how much of an impact that would have on the sound depends on the quality of your preamp. There's only one set of inputs on the I+, so only one source at a time, which is fine by me because I move things around a lot between three different CD players and two different turntables, the latter connected to one of two different phono preamps.

Unless you have a really high quality preamp, I would think it's better to just plug your source right into the headphone amp (or phono preamp into headphone amp, if you're using a turntable), but the only way to know for sure would be to try it out and listen.

You cannot use this headphone amp as a regular preamp because there are no outputs, save for where you plug in your headphones.

Thank you, that clears up my questions concerning hookups. I like what Ive read about the 1+ and at its price point it seems it would be a nice unit for me to try out tubes for the first time. Over the next few days I may try and get my hands on one. Just judging by what ive read I think i would like that sound signature.
 
I guess it's time to update you guys on my Little Dot experience. Earlier on in this thread I ordered a Little Dot I from China and when the unit arrived it would not play any sound thru the left channel. This was a big bummer for me because I had never heard tubes before, much less a dedicated headphone amplifier, and this would have been my first. I also went out and purchased a pair of AKG K601's. So long story short, I returned the LDI+ and decided to upgrade to the LD mkIII. The unit arrived and man.....what a beautiful piece. Heavy, shiny, 4 tubes! I was in love even before I plugged it in. So I let it burn in for the weekend with music looping out of my PC. I'm guessing a solid 50 or 60 hrs.

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I connected it to my Denon DCD-2900 CD/SACD player and began to listen to a variety of music on both formats. :music: Wow. I was totally taken away with the fluidity of the sound. What I mean is that the LD mkIII has a sound...i guess. I don't really know. I mean I'm sure it does, but still.....the music was just so effortless and fluid-like playing thru this unit. There was no fatigue, no harshness, no overly bright highs or underwhelming lows. It just sounded sooooo nice playing on my AKG's. The midrange in phenomenal! I tried listening and comparing the amps in my McIntosh C-39, Carver C-1000, and Onkyo TX reciever. While they all sounded good, they ALL also sounded ..... a little dirty? Kinda vieled, kinda harsh. The LD mkIII just sounded so right. Say what you want about headphone amps and tubes, but a comparrison won't lie.... this little amp sounded the most natural and most pleasing. I absolutely love it.

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I use it primarily with the Denon DVD-2900 ( what a great CD and SACD player )but also play my PC music library into it. I need to look for a USB D/A convertor. Maybe in the coming weeks. Currently my LD is in pure stock form. I can't wait to hear it when I roll in some new tubes. I did purchase a nice big fat AC power cord for it :)

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Anyway, I want to thank everyone here ( Mr. Lin, Permanent, 33 and anyone else with POSITIVE comments and feedback. You guys were right on!

Jimmy
 
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Nice pictures ! Now I know I wont rest till I get one of those Tube amps in my Little Desktop system. It looks like it would set just fine on top of my Mitsu System.
 
I guess it's time to update you guys on my Little Dot experience. Earlier on in this thread I ordered a Little Dot I from China and when the unit arrived it would not play any sound thru the left channel. This was a big bummer for me because I had never heard tubes before, much less a dedicated headphone amplifier, and this would have been my first. I also went out and purchased a pair of AKG K601's. So long story short, I returned the LDI+ and decided to upgrade to the LD mkIII. The unit arrived and man.....what a beautiful piece. Heavy, shiny, 4 tubes! I was in love even before I plugged it in. So I let it burn in for the weekend with music looping out of my PC. I'm guessing a solid 50 or 60 hrs.

I connected it to my Denon DCD-2900 CD/SACD player and began to listen to a variety of music on both formats. :music: Wow. I was totally taken away with the fluidity of the sound. What I mean is that the LD mkIII has a sound...i guess. I don't really know. I mean I'm sure it does, but still.....the music was just so effortless and fluid-like playing thru this unit. There was no fatigue, no harshness, no overly bright highs or underwhelming lows. It just sounded sooooo nice playing on my AKG's. The midrange in phenomenal! I tried listening and comparing the amps in my McIntosh C-39, Carver C-1000, and Onkyo TX reciever. While they all sounded good, they ALL also sounded ..... a little dirty? Kinda vieled, kinda harsh. The LD mkIII just sounded so right. Say what you want about headphone amps and tubes, but a comparrison won't lie.... this little amp sounded the most natural and most pleasing. I absolutely love it.

I use it primarily with the Denon DVD-2900 ( what a great CD and SACD player )but also play my PC music library into it. I need to look for a USB D/A convertor. Maybe in the coming weeks. Currently my LD is in pure stock form. I can't wait to hear it when I roll in some new tubes. I did purchase a nice big fat AC power cord for it :)

Anyway, I want to thank everyone here ( Mr. Lin, Permanent, 33 and anyone else with POSITIVE comments and feedback. You guys were right on!

Jimmy

Thanks Jimmy - I'm really glad it's to your liking, and I figured you'd get back to us about it at some point.

I can't remember which guy it is, but one of the Stereophile writers reviewed the MKIII not long ago and raved about it, and now every time he mentions it in another article or review he adds something in parenthesis about how much he likes it. Sam Tellig maybe?

I would like to get one of these and compare it to the hybrid I+. Now, I don't mean to be a trouble-maker, but have you tried rolling any tubes yet? :D
 
Now, I don't mean to be a trouble-maker, but have you tried rolling any tubes yet? :D


:D You were a trouble-maker the minute you started this thread about Little Dot tube amps!! You got me hooked!! :music: Still can't thank you enough. For just under 2 and a half bills I got a great piece of gear that I'm using, and more importantly loving every day. As of yet I have not tried rolling any tubes yet, but I would love to start now. I don't have ANY clue about which tubes to get so let me just throw out there what I want and maybe you can help to narrow the field down a bit for me. As you know I have AKG K601's - not very bottom heavy, but just perfect on the mids on up. So the next tubes would maybe have to add some bass. Current tubes have the sound at a very pleasing soundstage, but if I could add more then it would be a bonus. Also, and this has nothing to do with the sound, but i like the looks of those big ol tubes, the kind that fatten up towards the top. A nice looking tube with those added sonic benefits would be great. Any ideas? :scratch2:

Jimmy
 
:D You were a trouble-maker the minute you started this thread about Little Dot tube amps!! You got me hooked!! :music: Still can't thank you enough. For just under 2 and a half bills I got a great piece of gear that I'm using, and more importantly loving every day. As of yet I have not tried rolling any tubes yet, but I would love to start now. I don't have ANY clue about which tubes to get so let me just throw out there what I want and maybe you can help to narrow the field down a bit for me. As you know I have AKG K601's - not very bottom heavy, but just perfect on the mids on up. So the next tubes would maybe have to add some bass. Current tubes have the sound at a very pleasing soundstage, but if I could add more then it would be a bonus. Also, and this has nothing to do with the sound, but i like the looks of those big ol tubes, the kind that fatten up towards the top. A nice looking tube with those added sonic benefits would be great. Any ideas? :scratch2:

Jimmy

Ok, a few things - first, don't expect dramatic changes with different tubes, although I'm wondering if your model might respond more noticeably since it's an all-tube circuit, and my I+ only uses tubes as a buffer.

Second, please be very careful to follow the directions about changing out the internal jumpers when using different types of tubes, otherwise you'll likely end up burning up a resistor - not the end of the world, but then you could end up being without the amp for a long time if it's not something you can identify and fix on your own.

Third, you have a boatload of options, seriously, because the list of compatible driver tube types is long. Therefore, if you spend some time on ebay, especially looking for very specific types - like the cv4010 for example - you're probably going to come across some good deals because there's not a huge amount of "competition." By that I mean there aren't many hi-fi components that use these tube types, at least to my knowledge - just Little Dot, the Yammamoto headphone amp, and I think some Yaqin models.

If you find something you're desperate for based on feedback you find on the internet (head-fi is the best place to look for that, or my thread here, taken in context since we have different models), you'll notice there's one or two sellers on ebay who usually have them (the more popular tubes), but often at about $50 a pair, and that's steep. IMO, it's not that they're necessarily not worth that much, but in general you should find used and NOS examples of the types you need for $15 a pair or even less, with some exceptions. I personally wouldn't pay $50 for a pair of any of these types of tubes unless they're guaranteed "new-old-stock."

Next: it's going to be tough to know exactly what results you'll have with any given tubes in your amp, in your system. You can get an idea based on internet feedback, but you might not find tube X, for example, warm and rolled off on top like somebody else did.

Lastly: I don't know how much, if any, difference you might hear trying different power tubes, since of course the I+ does not have those. That's probably worth looking into over at head-fi.

Oh wait, one more thing - you may also want to consider the Herbie's Audio Lab tube dampers. I use them on everything I own that utilizes tubes, and most people seem to like them, but occasionally you'll see feedback that's not so positive, it's a case by case thing, just like it is with tubes. However, Steve Herbelin has a great return policy, so if you don't like them you could just send them back.

You've already got the cable thing covered; IMO a good power cable for these amps is important here. These things aren't power by wall-warts.
 
Thank you very much Dave. As always your comments and sugesstions are valued. And thanks again for that PM - I can't wait!

Jimmy
 
Another update:

So I'm stilling playing with the 408 "family" of tubes with the I+, and I've determined that, unfortunately, two of the three pairs of these I have are no good, at least to me.

The first is the chrome plated Sylvania 6028 (a 408 variant), which I posted a picture of a few days ago. These ultimately lived up to my memory of them from years ago: they occasionally ring, and there's often tube "hiss" in one or both channels. Not loud, but as I've said, when I'm listening to CD, noise of any kind is not acceptable to me, unless it's part of the recording.

Then I tried a pair of Tung Sol 6028 tubes I got from AK's Jim back when my I+ was new. After using these for awhile, problems somewhat similar to those of the Sylvanias developed. This time, I hoped, perhaps they'd be ok. But they weren't.


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Intermittent "tube rush" occurs in both tubes, again, in the background, but very noticeably to me. It's distracting enough as to make them useless. Please note this is not Jim's fault as the tubes were NOS and in perfect working order when I got them, this is just something that happens with some tubes, unfortunately.

What bugs me about this is that the Tung Sol tubes were among the best I've tried with the I+, very lively and full-bodied (the latter seems to be a general characteristic of the 408 tube actually).

Now I'm back to the WE408a, and happy to report dead silence. :)

I also swapped out the AD843 op-amps for BB2134, the latter possibly one of the most beloved op-amps in hi-fi audio, and for good reason.

The AD843, as you can see in the picture below, is a single-channel op-amp, so I have two of them mounted on an adapter. It's a good op-amp performance-wise, but compared to the 2134, the sonic presentation of the 843 is a little fuzzy, or blurry.


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I'm probably done messing around with the I+ for a little while as this particular setup seems to work quite well.


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Anyway, I want to thank everyone here ( Mr. Lin, Permanent, 33 and anyone else with POSITIVE comments and feedback. You guys were right on!

Jimmy

So glad you are enjoying your set up! :thmbsp:

I think you flatter me a bit unjustly with your thanks though; I don't even have a LD amp, I just have a Head Direct EF-1 tube/solid state hybrid which takes the same type of tube as some (all?) of the LD amps afaik.

So I did try some different tubes with it that are said to have a general type of sound signature regardless of what amps they are used with, but I never used the tubes directly in any LD amp. I'm glad if you found my comments on various tubes sound helpful though.

Man I forgot about this thread after I went to my Matrix M-Stage headphone amp! Hell, I forgot about my EF-1! I might have to hook it up and see what I think of it now. I've been keeping it just because I never got around to selling it and it is a good amp. It did have good synergy with my Grado 225i's so I think I'll see if those sound better with it than with my Matrix. I could then keep it just to use with them. I kind of doubt it will though as everything sounded better with the Matrix iirc. But another check down the road is never a bad idea.
 
I'm still fantasizing about a pair of Stax headphones w/amp. Man I wish I could afford them right now... :sigh:
 
I'm still fantasizing about a pair of Stax headphones w/amp.
If you like your Grado's I think you would love the Stax, I don't think my RS2i's have been on my head since I got my Stax. They are amazing cans which have a great sound stage with a very 'balanced' presentation, they are also not fatiguing at all you can wear them all day long.

Man I wish I could afford them right now... :sigh:
beg, borrow, steal (well maybe not), sell your body it would be worth it.
 
beg, borrow, steal (well maybe not), sell your body it would be worth it.

Lol I'm not sure if I'll take it that far! Maybe a kidney...

They look kind of awkward to me, but everybody says the same as you, that they're really comfortable, so I'll take your word for it.

Based on how their sound is described, I have a feeling my 325i's won't be used much, if at all, when I get a pair of Stax.
 
Hmmm... I found a couple op-amps I haven't used yet in my drawer a while ago. These are the OPA2211 and AD8599, both dual-channel SOIC 8 types. I'm tempted to warm up the soldering iron.

Do I really need more op-amp options? :scratch2:
 
I'm having a bit of an issue with my I+. There's a faint hissing sound in the background, which doesn't get louder if you turn up the volume, it just stays the same. I changed tubes, no improvement, I switched to a more heavily shielded power cord, and that actually did make it a little quieter. I've also tried different op-amps to make sure I didn't have a noisy one.

This hissing seems to come and go in waves. Most people probably wouldn't notice it or be bothered by it, but as I've said in the past, since the source is a CD player, no background noise is acceptable unless it's part of the recording. As I'm listening almost exclusively to classical at the moment, this issue is particularly irritating. Quiet passages and so on.

Tonight I switched out the 2134 op-amp for the LT1028, which is two single-channel SOIC 8 op-amps on an adapter. I took a picture, in case anyone still cares :D This model seems to offer better definition and sharper attack in the upper frequencies :


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I'm wondering if this is some kind of RFI interference, or if something inside the I+ is now noisy, like a resistor perhaps.


...
 
Further Updates:

Tonight I became so frustrated with the hissing in the right channel I decided to switch over to my Pro-Ject Head Box SE, which I had been using for computer sound, on the rare occasions I actually need to hear something from my computer.

The Head Box SE is a solid state amp (the horror!), and my version is the original. That's why I bought it actually, Music Direct had it on sale for 30% off years ago. It's been on loan for about 2 years to a family member who owns a record store, and I just got it back at the end of 2010. Initial A/B testing left me with the impression that the I+ was clearly the "better" of the two, sounding fuller and more lively.

It's too early for me to make any definitive judgments about how the Head Box SE compares to the I+, especially right now since I'm listening to some CDs that I just got today. I'll have to try it out with some very familiar reference recordings later. As of now, it seems very quiet, quick, and tight (pretty much the stereotypes of solid state), and lacks some of the midrange fullness that the I+ has. But is that necessarily a bad thing?

I'm wondering if, over time, I might find that it's not a case of one being clearly better than the other, rather that both have their own strengths and weaknesses and can be enjoyed accordingly.

I'd love to do some op-amp rolling with this thing, but they made it a major pain in the ass to get into; I'm still working on a way to go about it that doesn't involve having to de-solder all the connections to the multiple input and output RCA sockets. :sigh:

Here it is:


Pro-JectHeadBoxSE.jpg



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I'm having a bit of an issue with my I+. There's a faint hissing sound in the background, which doesn't get louder if you turn up the volume, it just stays the same. I changed tubes, no improvement, I switched to a more heavily shielded power cord, and that actually did make it a little quieter. I've also tried different op-amps to make sure I didn't have a noisy one.

This hissing seems to come and go in waves.

I'm wondering if this is some kind of RFI interference, or if something inside the I+ is now noisy, like a resistor perhaps.

Humm, that's annoying. I think my little dot has a tiny amount of background noise as well, though i've taken no steps to prevent it, but mine varies with volume a little, so I think it's "normal" circuit noise.

I wouldn't doubt it could be RFI, for all the great things radio does (free music and such) it really does a number on interferance. I've heard you can try moving a small pie tin or some such metal around and see if putting it in a certain place lowers interferance (a member had issues with a receiver - turns out he lived next to the WKRP antenna:D). It could be something else as well, maybe a thermal issue...I know in my house, outside climate and humidity can affect stuff, but if you live in a newer place with central air, it's less likely (our house is from the mid 50's:sigh:).

Could be a resistor or maybe even a cap or something:scratch2:. Try taking a piece of scrap metal and moving it around to see if it cancels anything out, could narrow it down.

Oh, and good luck:thmbsp: (that head box seems pretty cool, double outputs in a tiny frame, three inputs...impressive:yes:)
 
We had a washer machine where every time it would be run I'd hear static in my Little-Dot and the UVerse TV service would start to cut-out also.
 
I'm wondering if, over time, I might find that it's not a case of one being clearly better than the other, rather that both have their own strengths and weaknesses and can be enjoyed accordingly.
...

I think that sums up my whole hi-fi experience: once you get beyond a certain level of quality with well received gear (from speakers to cans to amps to DACs) it is not so much a matter of what is better/worse but how different the sound signature is. Strengths and weaknesses with all.

For my part I'd go crazy fussing with all the different setups I could play with (both the researching before purchase to trying to wean down all the gear after purchase and reselling) so I just pick the gear I like the best (based mostly on researching the gear that is widely regarded as having sound signatures I enjoy), hook it up, and forget about it and enjoy the music! :music:

I know many love to play with gear though and I totally understand, but I'm not one of them for the most part. As long as it works and sounds good (as in 8/10 "good enough") I'm happy...until I might get an "upgrade" (more like side-grade) itch. :D
 
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