Longer Speaker Wire or RCA's

The only time I've had any problem with noise/hum from long IC's was when I used a couple of Kimber Silver Streak (unshielded) IC's. I suspect that had my neighbor not been using an illegal linear amp on his CB setup I'd have had no problem as I heard no noise/hum when he wasn't home.
 
Please, let's hear some more about these "measurements" which "defy common sense." I'm all, um, ears...
I wish I could, Awillia. The guy who did the studio theaters, with multi-million $ budgets, took his job very seriously. He didn't use "pro" gear, but "audiophile" high-end stuff, even cables. For example, he chose the Perreaux amps from New Zealand, and bought tons of them, probably their biggest sale ever. He bought lots of spares, and part of his job was to get to the studio fast if an amp failed. But none did, and he sold me one of his spares for about 80% off retail.

He measured everything — but I never tagged along so I have no info for you, sorry. He did come to my house once and assessed my little system. He tested all my wire for impedance and capacitance, and made some suggestions. He tested my components for input/output impedance mismatches. He used an SPL meter, and repositioned my speakers — definite improvement.

Little measurements for a little system. It was really nice of him. Beyond that, I can't help you.
 
I would totally agree in the case of phono cartridge to phono pre. Signal pressure can be an important factor when discussing wire length.

Line level signals are higher pressure(read voltage) and can tolerate much longer interconnect lengths than most folks are aware.

Consider this:

a tuner, CD, deck, media server, or preamp with output impedances running between 600 and 6000 ohms or more, feeding preamp/amplifier input impedance of 30k ohms to over 100k ohms.

VS.

amplifiers with maybe 1/100 ohm output impedance feeding a speaker load of 3 or 4 ohms.

In which scenario do you think an ohm of impedance imposed by wire length will have the less audible effect?

FWIW, my engineer's philosophy had better keep the cost of copper high on the list of design considerations.
Interesting - I wasn't really thinking about voltage drop. I was mostly thinking about the power of the signal compared to the power of interference. Even a high voltage signal can be weak if it's supported by low levels of charge. Having said that - the only time I ever experienced interference was when I fed a long cable from the computer room into a PHONO input through a high-impedance RC filter / attenuator in order to use it as an extra AUX input. It worked great except when I flicked a light switch and got loud interference pops.
 
Does no one here have a wired whole house audio system (multiple 100' wire runs)? Works.

I do & (I engineered & sourced all the equipment), for all 5 rooms, both analog line level L/R audio & 5 different feeds of video :(composite, S-Video, Component(RGB), V~UGA, HDMI via Belden Media twist Cat-6+(550 + Mhz. bandwidth) utilizing active distribution multi output RJ-45 jacks baluns to passive end point baluns for audio @ 15hz~20khz bandwidth..

And active head end distribution to passive baluns at both ends for Composite, Component, S-Video, with active RJ 45 multi output distribution baluns and active end point baluns for V~UGA and HDMI signals..

All Cat-6 + hard wire signal delivery systems are very HQ and were swept and certified by an independent Telcom/network structured wire certification company using a $ 6,000.00 Fluke structured wire/network certifier in 2010 with hard copy proof of performance.

I apologize if this is a thread crap, but I`m kinda proud of my high quality & versatile multi-room hard wired A/V distribution system with no guidance or prior knowledge or experience in this area.

No noise, glitches, cross talk, interference, hum, or RFI, just clean high resolution A/V digital/analog signals at the end points..

Wasn`t inexpensive, especially with very HQ RJ 45 lightning/surge protectors at each end for each feed, but next year I`ll been living in & tweaking this house for 30 years, and am not leaving except on a stretcher @ room temperature.

Atlona for the active video devices, and ETSlan for the passive audio/video baluns..

Kind regards, OKB
 
I noticed you used line level for your audio signals.

That`s correct JoeESP9, at around a volt peak as measured using a Denon test CD, Laser disc calibration disc, DVD calibration DVD, ripped to a flash drive the Denon test CD for checking the level out from my OPPO BDP 103 that plays my WAV.music flash drive through it`s S/PDIF coax to the DAC .

Basically the Grace Audio m920 DAC when it`s feeding my all day background music and sets my distributed audio signal level for the feeds to my room`s stereo`s since I jumpered it`s ability internally for fixed analog output level that feeds my Mac C37 preamp which then feed`s the HQ active multi output RJ 45 internal baluns high headroom distribution amp from the Mac`s fixed outputs(no tone or volume control is in the feed path..

Whatever the audio level of the selected source signal(DAT, CD, BR DVD(menu set for stereo mix down), Tuner, Laser Disc, VCR) is what level that`s sent out..
Plenty of available headroom(Mac preamp is rated to nearly 10 volt).
Never have heard any signal clipping.
I demand from all my system/s to be very clean or their fixed or replaced.

Thanks for your interest.

Kind regards, OKB
 
I demand from all my system/s to be very clean or their fixed or replaced.

Nice setup, Bill! You'll be able to tweak that system til the cows come home.

If you don't mind my asking where and how did you pick up the knowledge to go so deeply into multi-room or whole-house audio systems? As you know, this stuff is mostly proprietary and usually one-stop shopping for rich folks, so the companies that deal in the systems are pretty close-mouthed about how they work and especially how to interface 3rd party gear to their stuff. Nice to make your acquaintance, BTW.
 
Nice setup, Bill! You'll be able to tweak that system til the cows come home.

If you don't mind my asking where and how did you pick up the knowledge to go so deeply into multi-room or whole-house audio systems? As you know, this stuff is mostly proprietary and usually one-stop shopping for rich folks, so the companies that deal in the systems are pretty close-mouthed about how they work and especially how to interface 3rd party gear to their stuff. Nice to make your acquaintance, BTW.

Thanks awillia6, as to knowledge about structured wiring, I`m self taught in electronics(no mentor) starting in 1974.
I had already had pairs(L/R) of RG 58 stranded center for L/R audio run from/through the back wall of my living room rack system from 1995 with a high performance(at the time) stranded center 75 ohm cable for composite video to 3 bedrooms + my converted garage to repair shop so my rack could feed audio & video without having to buy CD players, tuners for each location.
The rack became the Octopus` head end, and the low rent channel 3/4 crap was not even considered.

And with a 12` big dish with RF remote high end receiver I could control/watch the channels from any room that I had a TV/stereo in.
But doing that was not without chasing ground loops and the performance limits of composite video picture quality.
So I started seeing in 2009 MCM catalogs that had Belden Ethernet( Media twist/Video twist) offerings in them with A/V baluns, as well, so that got me thinking more and more about it and I researched HQ baluns.

And in 2010 I decided to buy 5 1000 ft. rolls of Media twist(4 blue &1 black) and over a 100 RJ 45 color coded snap in jacks old work boxes, wall plates, ect. after carefully figuring what I might need for now and in the future for signal distribution.
After weeks of looking at products on various sites and their specs, then ordering all..
I contacted my local A/V store whom I had been doing business with since 1987 and talked with them about running/connecting up all the cabling for me.
If I wasn`t partially paralyzed(left side hemi paresis) I would have, with the help of a friend, pulled/terminated the structured cables myself.

I had more of a learning curve with multi-room distribution of 1080P @ 24 HDMI with it`s paranoid HDCP/hand shake issues(an whole `nother subject, with nobody to turn to for knowledge/experience that I knew) than anything else later on when I brought that signal into one of the video Cat 6 E lines after going to active V~UGA which instead of using/needing two Cat cables passively w/baluns, the active required only 1 cable so there was now a capability for 1 cable active HDMI !!

I `effin hated/distrusted HDMI("Hopelessly Dependable Media Interface" early on(circa 2013, as did my local Best Buy A/V manager with his multi-flat screen HDMI fed store displays when I commented to him my multi-flat screen HDCP issues !!

One TV, one player: that`s easy peasy, outside of that, an "Adventure in tricking/fooling DRM/HDCP frustration" !!

But I know the procedure now(cussing and quantities of alcohol were my close friends in the early stages) HAHAHAHA !!

Mercy Sakes Alive !! More thread crapping by me..

Anyway that`s a synopsis Sir .on my whole house hardline adventure..

Take care.

Kind regards, OKB
 
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Great story. Thanks for posting. I too hate HDMI with a passion. There were two ways to go from DVI; they picked the wrong one. Though even Apple had to noodle the problem for years before getting it right.
 
No matter what route you take.. the solution will call for a quality cable. Well shielded or well strand wire will reduce the introduction of "spurious signal" paths caused by all kinds of influences along the length.

However, I must agree, with a prior poster, you are less likely to encounter an issue lengthening your speaker cord vs. RCAs.
 
Most recording studios think nothing of hundreds of feet of low-level cables,but the poweramps are always right beside the monitors.
Funny thing that...meh,whadda they know;)
Yes Sir. Art, I concur whole heartily & broadcast, A/V production facilities as well.. :thumbsup: Though there is a trend of converting to optical, though very expensive.
 
On another comment, my "house system" is run through various conduits and at long lengths with standard 14 gauge wire.. so far, with negligible intereference.

I do however use quality RCA connectors because on a number of troubleshoots I have found this to be the source of RF/IF contamination. Some of these issues were rather annoying, and I would highly suggest an occassional "continuity" check of even the most reputable RCA brands.

On another.. nother note.. "if such a thing"..? Those cables with a video connection as well as L/R, seem to be more resistant to damage caused by pulling, stretching or gripping of your audio plug-ins. Not sure if I would recommend them for "long term" use.
 
Yes Sir. Art, I concur whole heartily & broadcast, A/V production facilities as well.. :thumbsup: Though there is a trend of converting to optical, though very expensive.

I must confess Mr Ferris,I get quite the chuckle when I read the threads about ''high-end'' cables. Yep,anybody who believes for one second that the three feet of exotic wire is going to offer up a vast improvement has never been inside the industry or met one of theseo_O:

NEVE-PATCH-BAY.jpg


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