Looking at a Few Tube Amps
- Thread starter Fusion
- Start date
RGA
Super Member
It will be interesting. Peter Q did found and ran Audio Innovations before Audio Note so it's not totally alien - but I am interested in seeing this - I wonder if they can also make it into a monoblock (at this price could be interesting as well). But how many will like the size? It looks pretty massive.
I remember the old Audio Innovations amps - also 25 watts per channel but it had preamp out and a phono stage.
I remember the old Audio Innovations amps - also 25 watts per channel but it had preamp out and a phono stage.
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RGA
Super Member
You might be right - I am not great at spacial awareness It just seems with the copper shielded transformers that the amp would have to be quite large to house them.
I like shots with scale - this Prima Luna has a remote in front so you can see how rather small it is.
I actually like smaller moveable amplifiers like the 211ia and Prima Luna. We'll see - It just looks big to me. The silver frame in the foreground with the black top to go over it.
I like shots with scale - this Prima Luna has a remote in front so you can see how rather small it is.
I actually like smaller moveable amplifiers like the 211ia and Prima Luna. We'll see - It just looks big to me. The silver frame in the foreground with the black top to go over it.
RGA
Super Member
There is a short Audio Note video - at 1:24 there is the Cobra prototype. The turntable is what I want ($6k) with three motors - to this day one of the two best turntables I have heard was a tricked out TT3 (Voyd Reference) with three motors. You just can't get the parts for it any longer so I never bothered to buy used. This basically looks to be replacing that (for considerably less money). I don't know about the volume and control knobs - I presume they will be black in final production but we'll see.
Fusion
Active Member
Thanks for the video. I assume we are still looking at a few months before the Cobra is available. Nice turntable for sure. I am probably moving to a Thorens TD160 with Jelco arm and that'll likely be it for me on the turntable front. I like my P5's sound well enough but I don't like the inability to tweak settings with the tonearm. I also dig the suspension on the 160. A table that looks and feels more substantial than a Rega and sounds really good too for $500. I'll be in for a bit more though because I'm doing the Super upgrade offered by Vinyl Nirvana (not sending it in, just bought the parts from Dave).
I really respect the DIY community...only problem for me is my technical skills pretty much begin and end at replacing tubes, and biasing provided there is a built in bias meter and all I gotta do is turn a screw. I'm damn good at it though, lol!
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RGA
Super Member
I met with Andy Grove and Peter Qvortrup last night on their way out of Hong Kong. The volume and control knobs will be frosted and lit (which can be dimmed or turned off from a switch at the back). Andy tells me it will be 27 watts per channel. They also have a mega amp in production based on the 212. No it won't be affordable unless you change careers. They look to be 3-4 feet high. They will make the 219Ia look like a tiny headphone amplifier in comparison.
Fusion
Active Member
Picked up a used Sugden a21aL (just needed to hear Class A SET in my system I guess, albeit solid state). Certainly a much different sound than I am used to hearing. Not sure what I am going to do for an amp yet. I will either keep the Sugden or Audio Space. If the latter, I may end up trading up to to an AN Cobra or Primaluna Prologue Premium. Or I may just stick with the Audio Space. The Bryston is a keeper as well and I'll use it when I want a bit of a change in sound. To be honest, I don't think I can make a bad move. All of these amps sound great and I could live with any of them, though if I am being honest I think the tubes (Audio Space) probably sound best.
RGA
Super Member
I would have taken the Sugden A21 over my Audio Space amp that's for sure. But I mostly heard the circa 1992 version so I can't speak as much to the newer versions which have added switches in the signal path like remote controls. I would really like Sugden to make a version of their amp with an EI transformer instead of a torroid to hear how that would work out.
Fusion
Active Member
Well needless to say they are two excellent sounding amps but yet they sound very different. So it's about deciding what I prefer to listen to.
The texture is a lot thicker with the a21. The Audio Space has more space in between instruments and sounds less congested overall - I find there to be a lot more focus and definition. But despite that, the a21 has incredible transparency and resolution and it's easy to follow all the little details that are present in the music - and I am hearing these more than ever before when I listen to it. The clarity is outstanding. It's just a more wall-of-sound kind of sound and not as subtle as my other amps. Which I think is probably more true to life and less "hi-fi" but I just love the open and clear sound of the Audio Space.
It could be a speaker match issue as well. A speaker that is a bit thinner sounding could benefit by the Sugden's presentation. With the ProAc it is maybe be too much of a good thing. Despite being relatively small standmount speakers they put out a lot more energy than most other standmounts that I have tried. Plus they are designed to be tube friendly, so overall the natural match is a p/p tube amp. I know it's not your favorite speaker but I'd love to hear the a21 with the B&W 705. I really hate moving my speakers when I have them perfectly set up, but I should give my AN AX-2's a whirl with the a21.
The texture is a lot thicker with the a21. The Audio Space has more space in between instruments and sounds less congested overall - I find there to be a lot more focus and definition. But despite that, the a21 has incredible transparency and resolution and it's easy to follow all the little details that are present in the music - and I am hearing these more than ever before when I listen to it. The clarity is outstanding. It's just a more wall-of-sound kind of sound and not as subtle as my other amps. Which I think is probably more true to life and less "hi-fi" but I just love the open and clear sound of the Audio Space.
It could be a speaker match issue as well. A speaker that is a bit thinner sounding could benefit by the Sugden's presentation. With the ProAc it is maybe be too much of a good thing. Despite being relatively small standmount speakers they put out a lot more energy than most other standmounts that I have tried. Plus they are designed to be tube friendly, so overall the natural match is a p/p tube amp. I know it's not your favorite speaker but I'd love to hear the a21 with the B&W 705. I really hate moving my speakers when I have them perfectly set up, but I should give my AN AX-2's a whirl with the a21.
Poultrygeist
Lunatic Member
While I liked the additional power of the Prima Luna it couldn't resolve detail at low levels like a SET amp.
Fusion
Active Member
So I guess there is nothing new on the Cobra yet. AN really don't know how to keep a buyer's attention! At least give something like a target date or some details on the website. At this point I am ready to move on. There are plenty of nice options out there.
The likely scenario is that I will just stick with what I've got. As crazy as it may sound, the A21 really improved when I swapped power cords. The resolution, transparency, and life-like tone is addictive. After living with the A21 for a bit, then putting the B60R back into the mix, it really makes the difference apparent. There was a bit of a shock going from the B60R to the A21 (different sound), but then going back really highlights the strengths of the Sugden.
So I'll likely just hang onto both the Sugden and Audio Space, running each for part of the year. Although, one of my favorite dealers just took on the Synthesis line, and this little guy has caught my attention:
http://www.synthesis.co.it/roma-roma96.php
The likely scenario is that I will just stick with what I've got. As crazy as it may sound, the A21 really improved when I swapped power cords. The resolution, transparency, and life-like tone is addictive. After living with the A21 for a bit, then putting the B60R back into the mix, it really makes the difference apparent. There was a bit of a shock going from the B60R to the A21 (different sound), but then going back really highlights the strengths of the Sugden.
So I'll likely just hang onto both the Sugden and Audio Space, running each for part of the year. Although, one of my favorite dealers just took on the Synthesis line, and this little guy has caught my attention:
http://www.synthesis.co.it/roma-roma96.php
RGA
Super Member
The problem is AN makes too much stuff and they are a bit ADHD and OCD and the entry level stuff probably gets shoved down the cue. They have also already completely sold out of the first batch of Cobra amps. The dealer in Hong Kong says he has some coming though. But AN doesn't really hurry. Heck my new AN E speakers have been selling for maybe 5 years and sell in the West too. And they're not listed on the website. It's a game of Where's Waldo.
Fusion
Active Member
Ha, that's funny. A lot of companies seem to neglect their websites though. In the year 2017 it's kind of surprising to say the least. But one could probably argue AN is focused on audio and it's just a lot of fun for them. They aren't some conglomerate where making $ is the only goal, so a lot of the seemingly normal marketing and business practices aren't really followed. Kind of frustrating for potential consumers though.
Well, I guess when they finally put out more info and I see what the local AN dealer is selling it for, maybe I'll consider it if it's really enticing. That'll be late 2017 likely.
I may check out the Synthesis (25w Class A EL34 amp, so it likely sounds really sweet), and truth be told I'm still intrigued by the Primaluna with it's tube rolling options. If I can just win the lottery I'd buy it all.
Well, I guess when they finally put out more info and I see what the local AN dealer is selling it for, maybe I'll consider it if it's really enticing. That'll be late 2017 likely.
I may check out the Synthesis (25w Class A EL34 amp, so it likely sounds really sweet), and truth be told I'm still intrigued by the Primaluna with it's tube rolling options. If I can just win the lottery I'd buy it all.
