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Looking at buying Infinity Renaissance 90 speakers - Should I?

Discussion in 'Infinity Loudspeakers' started by Gerts, Dec 8, 2018 at 3:21 PM.

  1. Gerts

    Gerts New Member

    Messages:
    24
    I will try to keep this as short as possible.

    I went the other day to look at a pair of mint Yamaha NS-1000M for sale and wow were they mint. They could have passed for new! I have a pair of mint Yamaha NS-690’s and I really like them a lot. From all my research everyone says if you like the 690 you will love the 1000. So I show up and the guy had them hooked up so I was able to audition them. They sounded good but to be honest they were ok. Now I know that they were not being powered with the greatest equipment but I still was not impressed. I run a Krell amp and a Classe’ pre amp in my system so maybe that’s why my 690 sound so good.

    So this guy has tons of equipment for sale. From amps, pre amps, turntables and speakers. He mentioned that I might like the sound of the Infinity Renaissance 90? I never heard of that model before. We went to another room where he had them set up. He had it powered with some really nice gear. Cant remember the name of the amp but it was 400 watts and was huge! He was also running a McIntosh C 504 pre and a SACD player. Well they blew me away! Wow they were nice!

    Now ribbons are new to me. One mid looked perfect but the other mid ribbon has some wrinkles or bubbling. Good or bad? Something to be concerned about?

    Tweeters look really good from what I can see.

    Overall condition I would give them an 8.5 out of 10. The top wood on both is separated a little or warped where they seemed it together. Not sure why Infinity did not use a solid piece of oak?

    He has an extra mid with no ribbon. Also 2 extra crossovers. One for the bottom sub and cone mid that will go with the speakers.

    I don’t know anything about them other than I was very pleased with how they sounded.

    He is wanting $1500 for them. Not sure if I can post what he is selling them for? I don’t want to get in trouble and my post pulled. Is this a fair price?

    If the one mid was not wrinkled or has the bubble look going on I probably would not be to concerned. I looked up what it cost to replace the mid ribbon and was shocked!

    Any recommendations or advise would be awesome!

    Thank you
     

     

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  2. jazzmans

    jazzmans Super Member

    Messages:
    2,352
    Location:
    devils playground, NV
    You're going to get a ton of different opinions the Ren's are very polarizing.

    My opinion is
    they are the best speakers I've ever owned, and damn near the best speakers I've ever heard.
    Mine will never leave my possession.

    BTW, they aren't 'ribbons' rather the EMIT and EMIM are magnetic planar drivers. similar technology, different construction.

    The biggest problem is finding replacement high energy emims is difficult, to impossible unless you can scavange them from another pair of rens, or the other three(?) speakers Infinity put them in before abandoning the technology (big mistake in my opinion)

    Graz makes replacement EMIM's and a user on here says he's going to also, but no-one that I know repairs high energy EMIMS.

    the complaints that I've heard about the ren series is they're too 'polite' and don't 'rock' as much as other speakers. I don't feel that way, they are easily better then my RS 2B's in side by side comparisons. the ren's are clearly more neutral, and better reproduce whatever they are fed, but be warned, if you feed them a poor recording, or use poor amplification, you're going to hear every flaw in the recording/ amplification chain.

    I love mine. I will never part with them.
     
    dlucy likes this.
  3. Sandstrom

    Sandstrom Seldom turns out the way it does in the song Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,922
    Location:
    Cincinnati
    I own a pair of 80s and consider them superb speakers. I know this is the place we are supposed to discuss pricing but I would hope to get them for less than the asking price, especially with the cosmetic issues. That being said, you'd have to spend a whole mess of additional dollars to compete with what you'd get.
     
    jazzmans likes this.
  4. uvafan420

    uvafan420 LiKe It LoUd

    Messages:
    310
    That is what I gave for a pair of mint Ren 90s (mine are in black oak). I bought them from their original owner, with original manuals, etc... Around 1500 is the average cost (more for gloss black). So he is not robbing you, and you are not robbing him. A cabinet maker could probably take off the top pieces and straighten them back out using heat/moisture for you (as they would get worse over time without doing something for it).
     
  5. Gerts

    Gerts New Member

    Messages:
    24
    Thanks for the info.

    What are your thoughts on the EMIMS having the wrinkles in it? Something to be concerned about? I found this on eBay 2 new INFINITY EMIM HI-E MID DIAPHRAGM - EPSILON/SIGMA/RENAISSANCE for $395 each. Are these the ones you are talking about?

    How long should a EMIMS mid last?

    Also I will be powering them with a Krell amp and in 4 ohm I am at 500 watts. My pre is a Classe’ CP-50 so my gear should be good to go.

    My main style of music is Jazz like Miles, Dizzy and Bill Evan. If not Jazz then something like Steely Dan, Jim Croce, James Taylor…..stuff like that.
     
  6. Gerts

    Gerts New Member

    Messages:
    24
    Do any of you have concerns about the EMIMS having wrinkles in it?
     

     

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  7. uvafan420

    uvafan420 LiKe It LoUd

    Messages:
    310
    Mine do not have the wrinkles, so can't add much about the sound/issues. I would go by what I hear, because you are not buying new speakers. They are 25 year old speakers. But, here is a post concerning wrinkles in EMIMs though. http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/how-to-un-wrinkle-emim-diaphragms.741914/ The users that had posted there could tell you more.

    BTW, I use a Krell with mine as well. They sound really good. They are not my forever speaker like it is for some (I just need more umphhhh in the bottom end for my kind of music), but a great speaker none the less.
     
  8. jazzmans

    jazzmans Super Member

    Messages:
    2,352
    Location:
    devils playground, NV
    yes, wrinkles mean the traces are lifting, it happens over time. Mine are slightly wrinkled and are afaik the originals
    I'd buy replacements and hold them til you need them.

    That krell will be a great match, they love good amplification. Personally I use ancient Carver amps.

    My RS 2B emims are MUCH more wrinkled then my rens, and they still sound fine, so until they fail, I think you're safe. (but I could be wrong)

    Note, High energy EMIMS are constructed differently then EMIMS, I don't know the difference, never had either apart, but I've heard the high energy's are single ended with regards to magnets rather then push/pull, but again, that's hearsay.

    just wait 'til you hear miles, or an upright bass on them. I think you'll be very happy.
     
  9. Gerts

    Gerts New Member

    Messages:
    24
    Man that would scare me to take it out and try to flatten it out. I think it would be better to leave it till it takes a crap.
     
  10. Gerts

    Gerts New Member

    Messages:
    24
    I found these on eBay. Are they the right ones?

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/INFINITY-E...=item3d7c34c778:g:uNUAAOSwubFagg8T:rk:12:pf:0

    If not where would I find replacements?
     
  11. 7.62

    7.62 Gearhead Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,654
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    You don’t. Those are your only option. $1500 isn’t a bad price. If the HE Emims are that bad you see traces lifting I’m not giving much more than a grand. It’s a sign the speakers have been overdriven. It’s a major part of what makes the 90’s magical...most of the time.
     
    jazzmans likes this.

     

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  12. jazzmans

    jazzmans Super Member

    Messages:
    2,352
    Location:
    devils playground, NV
    they look right, 'they say he emims.

    IIRC, (graz should chime in here) the felt that makes one layer of the makeup of the he emim wears out deteriorates overtime, and should be replaced, so since you're looking at diaphrams I'd also source new felt, probably from a local fabric shop when you need to repair/replace your existing pair.

    also, you could check with millersound, see if Bill will repair he emims.
     
  13. musicman95

    musicman95 Member

    Messages:
    74
    Location:
    Near Portland Oregon
    I think thats a fair price for Ren90s, that's about what I paid for mine and I had to drive 4 hours to go pick them up. I wouldn't worry about the HE-EMIMs, the old EMIMs from the 80s are full of wrinkles and they still sound great. I think the Ren90s have a tendency to sound a little too neutral and unnivolving but when I hooked them up to a Krell, damn did they sound nice. If you think they sound good now wait till you get em home. :rockon:
     
  14. 7.62

    7.62 Gearhead Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,654
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    I would if your shelling out $1500 and potentially another $800 to $1200 to replace those HE Emims. Not saying it’s not worth it but it should be considered.

    And yes I’ve owned 2 pairs of each, the 90 & 80.

    Also for me we all hear it different. For me the 90’s are to hot on the top end, with Krell power I never had an issue with the low side. Super clean clear thumpy goodness. I just got fatigue from the top.end.

    I’m not sure how you find it but I have a video up in the let’s see them and hear them in the speaker forum, somewhere around page 35 if you want to hear mine. It’s Crown power, McIntosh C26 and the sneaks. Edited don’t have them anymore but I do miss them.

    73A955B7-FD3B-47DA-B717-C57ADA16C6BE by 7.62 posted Sep 25, 2017 at 7:29 AM

    Was my first video, terrible but sounds ok.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018 at 5:10 PM
  15. musicman95

    musicman95 Member

    Messages:
    74
    Location:
    Near Portland Oregon
    Ya your right there, definitely expensive to replace. However, I have yet to read a story were they have failed, they are 15 years newer than the old EMIMs. Not saying they won't though
     
  16. Sandstrom

    Sandstrom Seldom turns out the way it does in the song Subscriber

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Cincinnati
    Some of the traces on my drivers are a little irregularly rippled most are still totally flat. They came to me this way and have gotten no worse since I've had them. Unless they look really bad I would think you'd be ok for some time.
     

     

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  17. 7.62

    7.62 Gearhead Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,654
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Cool, I was hoping you wouldn’t get mad that I quoted you. I paid 2 grand for my last pair the ones in the video. The drivers were pristine though. I’m just trying to throw out advice to Gerts to use that as wiggle room if he goes for it.

    It’s really the only issue stepping into these upper end Infinity’s, these type of drivers are really expensive to replace.
     
  18. okeeteekid

    okeeteekid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    835
    Location:
    Northern NJ
    If the EMIM'S have wrinkles in them that is because they were over driven at one point in time, if they are not badly wrinkled and the magnets are not peeling then the EMIM's should be good for a long while, I don't think you would hear any difference if the traces were flat as long as the wrinkles are not so bad that they touch the magnets and vibrate, check them with piano music for any scraping sounds.

    Personally I think he is asking too much, for $1500 to $1800 Ren 90's should be in as like new condition as possible, I sold a pair a few years ago that were mint/perfect with original boxes, owners manual, original warranty card and the original brochure for $1500 I was only the second owner of my pair.

    With the EMIM's being wrinkled and the tops being slightly raised I would offer him $1000 or maybe $1200 tops for them and that's if the rest of the cabinets are in excellent condition too.
     
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