Looking for a sub woofer

[JD#7]

Hello , just joined yesterday and looking for suggestions for a sub.
I have right now an Onkyo TX 8220
Klipsch RB51 pair
Project Essential III
I am using the old Yamaha sub from my TV/ 5.1 system YST-SW010 which I find to be quite 'muddy' for music.
I am looking for a powered sub that won't break the bank ( I just bought a new snow blower )
The Klipsch SPL100NAB caught my eye . $609.00 CDN.

thanks , JD

 

[Gazdatronik]

For that kind of money, a little more can get you an SVS. Might be a better choice, they have deeper bass extension than most other brands, I have a Klipsch 12" from last year, good for what it is but completely underwhelming compared to a friend's SVS.

Now he has the big bad $2500 SB-16 Ultra, which can do 16 hz without trying hard, but even the cheaper, smaller subs SVS sells, like the 1000 series, can get to 24. A Klipsch 10" is good down to 32 hz, My 12" Klipsch is good to 29hz.

Those "subwoofers" good down to about 30hz are about useless for certain types of music, in my case pipe organ and some electronic, since they are missing a bottom Octave.

For $699 American, the 2000 series bass cube will go down to 19 hz. Id go through the SVS site and see if anything there piques your interest.

 

[JD#7]

Thanks ! I am Canadian , so $699 USD is a big jump though . I will look at the SVS site today .

 

[JD#7]

I'm seeing the SVS PB-1000 or SB-1000 in my price range .

 

[Grenadeslio]

Rythmik

http://www.rythmikaudio.com

 

[Gazdatronik]

I'm seeing the SVS PB-1000 or SB-1000 in my price range .

Sorry, i did mean the 1000 series

 

[Gazdatronik]

Rythmik

http://www.rythmikaudio.com

Im sub shopping too, i need to check out this site, looks like navigating it will give me an anyeurism though.

 

[vinyl fiend]

subs are inherently muddy.

 

[xero-D-hero]

Hello , just joined yesterday and looking for suggestions for a sub.

Best to get this started right.
What size room ?
And what is the max budget for this ??
Specific genre(s) of listening material would be ???

subs are inherently muddy.

I gotta call on this ^^^^ comment...
That's only true if / when one does'nt understand how to properly integrate the sub with the rest of the system.
Or when one hastily buys a sub that does'nt have the proper features to allow the user to integrate the sub correctly.
Buy the right sub and integrate it properly and it WILL NOT be "muddy" @ all.

My single best piece of advice for sub buyers is to look for subs with a variable phase control.
I say that as they help TREMENDOUSLY when getting the sub to integrate with the mains.
This is especially true if the sub placement is going to be less than ideal (which is the case most of time).

JM2¢ ~ FWIW ~ HTH

Bret P.

 

[Gazdatronik]

Best to get this started right.
What size room ?
And what is the max budget for this ??
Specific genre(s) of listening material would be ???


I gotta call on this ^^^^ comment...
That's only true if / when one does'nt understand how to properly integrate the sub with the rest of the system.
Or when one hastily buys a sub that does'nt have the proper features to allow the user to integrate the sub correctly.
Buy the right sub and integrate it properly and it WILL NOT be "muddy" @ all.

My single best piece of advice for sub buyers is to look for subs with a variable phase control.
I say that as they help TREMENDOUSLY when getting the sub to integrate with the mains.
This is especially true if the sub placement is going to be less than ideal (which is the case most of time).

JM2¢ ~ FWIW ~ HTH

Bret P.

You are correct, and Ill go you one more, a sub with dsp onboard for room modes and getting the xo slope right.

 

[vinyl fiend]

A sub should fill up the room with whatever prominent bass frequencies are present in the mix. Maybe "mud" is a harsh term, It depends on what you are listening to, but not every recording is going to sound crystal clear and punchy in the 80hz range. Frequencies below 125hz are wooly and muffled. I am just trying to clarify the OP's expectations. My sub amp is a Yammy (YST sw-105). It has a crossover adjustment pot, into an 18" woofer. Could be it's just the Yammies, but I would think Bass punch has more to do with the Q, and the enclosure.

 

[Gazdatronik]

A sub should fill up the room with whatever prominent bass frequencies are present in the mix. Maybe "mud" is a harsh term, It depends on what you are listening to, but not every recording is going to sound crystal clear and punchy in the 80hz range. Frequencies below 125hz are wooly and muffled. I am just trying to clarify the OP's expectations. My sub amp is a Yammy (YST sw-105). It has a crossover adjustment pot, into an 18" woofer. Could be it's just the Yammies, but I would think Bass punch has more to do with the Q, and the enclosure.

Frequencies don't have a texture, or are muffled(?) They are what they are. If your impression is that certain frequency ranges sound worse than others, its most likely the xo is set too high, or the speaker is badly designed, or there is fluid in the ears(something I am suffering from at the moment).

There is plenty of low frequency info outside the house in a busy street. It probably sounds pretty natural.

 

[infullview]

More specifically, look at http://www.rythmikaudio.com/L22.html
These are listed at $900. They have a graph that shows frequency response and if I'm reading it correctly it looks like +/- 1.5 from 20 to 300 Hz

 

[Hajidub]

A sub should fill up the room with whatever prominent bass frequencies are present in the mix. Maybe "mud" is a harsh term, It depends on what you are listening to, but not every recording is going to sound crystal clear and punchy in the 80hz range. Frequencies below 125hz are wooly and muffled. I am just trying to clarify the OP's expectations. My sub amp is a Yammy (YST sw-105). It has a crossover adjustment pot, into an 18" woofer. Could be it's just the Yammies, but I would think Bass punch has more to do with the Q, and the enclosure.

I've never experienced any of the descriptions you've mentioned. I have my PE Dayton Sub x-over set to slightly overlap the lower frequency of my main speakers. It's seamless, cannot tell a sub is even being used, and sounds crystal clear down to 22Hz. BTW, having to set your sub anywhere close to the 80Hz range means your main speakers aren't very well crossed themselves. A sub should be used to accommodate what your mains can't perform.

 

[xero-D-hero]

My sub amp is a Yammy (YST sw-105). It has a crossover adjustment pot, into an 18" woofer.

Huh ? Please explain this further... Is this a Yamaha YST SW-105 plate amp driving an 18" woofer in a custom enclosure ???
Or have you misquoted the woofer size of the Yamaha YST SW-105 sub as the specs show it to have an 8" woofer.

Could be it's just the Yammies, but I would think Bass punch has more to do with the Q, and the enclosure.

WAAAYYY more to it that just that...
But I'm not here to give a full blown course on the subject.

Anyhow I personally would'nt consider using that Yamaha sub/amp in any way shape or form as it does'nt even have a 0°~180° phase switch.
Only way you would have to account for a phase issue would be to swap the +/- wires on the woofer,and even then it'll only be the same as a 0°~180° switch.
The "music/movies" switch is probably a crossover slope switch of some sort. But even that does'nt redeem that sub's lack of proper controls.

Subs like that Yamaha are meant to be used with AVR's that have their own internal sub settings that can account for the lack of controls on the sub itself.

You are correct, and Ill go you one more, a sub with dsp onboard for room modes and getting the xo slope right.

Some subs have crossover slope controls (switches) w/o going into full blown dsp affairs that have their own learning curve to account for.
Though I agree dsp is the ultimate way to get this done correctly,it's going be quite intimidating to any sub noob.

This is one of those deals where once you know what you need to get it all to work properly,it makes the job of shopping MUCH easier.
And of course the end result turns out much better as well.

FWIW

Bret P.

 

[JD#7]

xero-D-hero, the room is 10'x15' hard surfaces except for furniture . Quite an eclectic range of music though . $600-$700 Canadian budget . Hopefully this pic of the back panel of an SVS is what others are recommending for set up .This sub suits my budget and is local . I don't want to ship from the USA to here .

 

[xero-D-hero]

That sub should work fine.
Probably a bit bigger than the room really needs,but that's really NBD.
All that really means is you wont have to crank the level knob quite as high to get the desired SPL's.
Besides many feel you cant really have "too much" subwoofer anyways.

FWIW I usually run my mains "full range" and overlap the low end of the speakers frequency response range with the subs low pass setting.
So that means the +/-3dB point of those Klipsch is 50Hz,so I'd start with the sub crossover around 60Hz or so and tune it further from there.
And seeing that the Onkyo has pre-outs,I'd use those to connect it to the sub.

Good luck with this.

Bret P.

 

[gmfgmfgmf1]

Watch the crossover performance

I have 2 15 inch subs

With a fourth order crossover I was rattling fireplace glass

Went to first order and problems went away

 

[GD70]

Another excellent sub to consider is the Definitive Technology super cube series.
The general consensus with subs used primarily for music should be sealed is semi sealed, not ported. When I asked for sub recommendations, this was mentioned many times.
I'm running a super cube II with my Magnepan SMGs. It's small. It has an 8 inch driver, with two 8 inch passive radiators, one each side. It has line level in and out, variable low and high pass, phase and volume control, so very versital.

 

[nniemiec]

If you cool looking used - REL models from when Sumiko owned them are about as musical as it gets --- Storm / Strata / Stadium are all phenomenal, built w. mosfets & a speaker cable that simplifies the integration w. your amp.