Looking For Best Practices For Upgrading Record Collection

[KrisM]

Are you planning on adding a fair bit of jazz vinyl? If yes, how big a deal is the cover?
If not, look at some of the reissue lines that have come out over the years(pre-vinyl 'revival'). Plenty of great sounding old Blue Note and Prestige reissues out there that don't get hyped like the originals or high end reissues. Some have oogly covers, but great music inside.


You'd never guess what's inside this one by just looking at the cover:

The OJC line is another great place to look for jazz

 

[WaynerN]

I was wondering when someone was going to start recommending albums. I like the collection by Andreas Vollenweider. These are show-off recordings, complex and ever changing, its jazz, classical, slightly rock fusion keeps them all interesting.

Look for sealed stuff....even on the 'bay.

 

[sberger]

All I have ever found at Steve Hoffman's site is endless bickering and obsessing over nonsense like buying Dark Side of the Moon and every Beatles record at least 10 times
It reads like a bunch of kids in a race to "collect them all!"
Just skimmed it briefly, it's definitely a record buying group and a vanity site, my impression anyway

Like any forum, including this one, it has it's strengths and weaknesses. But it's easy to search, and there are a lot of very knowledgeable people. Do a Google search for a particular title and put "Hoffman" at the end and you'll get some excellent, specific info on the title. I have found it very helpful over the years.

 

[patient_ot]

Those 70s Prestige 2-Fers are great. Similar series are available for the Verve, Milestone (which includes Riverside material), and Blue Note labels. Savoy had a series as well. W/r/t the Prestige ones, sometimes you can even find Van Gelder stamped in the deadwax. Pressing quality isn't always the best though, watched out for warped copies, little divots or crap embedded in the wax, etc. These are pressed on very thin vinyl and will warp easily. I've had one warp on the way home from the record shop in my car with the AC cranked on a hot summer day. Other than that they sound great. The Blue Note and Verve ones are on thicker vinyl and less prone to warping, but you still have to watch for pressing defects on them.

W/r/t to OJCs, there are two main types. The new ones you see in shops today that are sealed are not the same as the old ones. They are new lacquer cuts and are sourced from hi-rez digital. These are from after Concord bought Fantasy. Some sound very nice anyway but pressing quality is all over the place because Concord just sends the work out to whomever. The ones pressed at RTI and QRP are usually the better ones, followed by Rainbo, with United at the bottom of the barrel and most likely to suffer pressing defects. In rare cases, mother plates from an old OOP audiophile edition will be used to press these new OJCs. That happened with two titles by Sonny Rollins. In that case you get an amazing sounding AAA record just as good as any of the high dollar reissues from the audiophile labels.

Old OJCs are a different ball game and are starting to dry up on the used market IME. You can tell they are old OJCs a few ways. If the title was never reissued by Concord, then it's an old one. If the deadwax tells you it was pressed at a plant that no longer exists, e.g. Columbia Pittman or Terre Haute, it's an old one. If the old OJC obi strip or hype sticker is still there will partial shrinkwrap, it's an old one. Finally look inside the jacket, there are usually postcards with the Fantasy address in them if the original owner didn't toss them. Another clue that it's an old OJC. Most of the old OJCs were cut from tape (often by George Horn) and sound great. Some exceptions though.

Besides 70s reissues of "classic" 50s and 60s material, many people are often unaware that great jazz was being made all through the 70s and even into the 80s. Not just jazz fusion or jazz funk either. Lots of classic albums you can get on first pressings for not much money if you crate dig. Same thing with lesser known records from the 50s and 60s or things that are just overlooked today. For example, you can pick up an early pressing (not 70s/80s reissue) of a great 60s hard bop album by a guy like John Handy in nice condition for $5 or $6. Try doing that with any big name jazz artist/album from the 50s or 60s.

Are you planning on adding a fair bit of jazz vinyl? If yes, how big a deal is the cover?
If not, look at some of the reissue lines that have come out over the years(pre-vinyl 'revival'). Plenty of great sounding old Blue Note and Prestige reissues out there that don't get hyped like the originals or high end reissues. Some have oogly covers, but great music inside.


You'd never guess what's inside this one by just looking at the cover:

The OJC line is another great place to look for jazz

 

[onepixel]

I prefer original pressings and about 98% of my records are so. In my opinion a lot of reissues and remasters created in the 90s into the 2000s are lacking. New current releases are all over the place and most have been affected by the Loudness War. I listen.

Something to consider.
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/year?artist=pink+floyd&album=dark+side+of+the+moon

 

[grillebilly]

This method works as good as any

 

[VintageVibe]

Hey Mister P.

Let me just say first off that I have the benefit of having a killer record store near me. It’s a huge help in deciding whether to buy new or old and what version. That said, my best practices may differ from what you’re looking to employ as my musical tastes and desire to collect has evolved over the years, but here goes.

My objectives have gone from buying the records of the day to now buying a combination of both new and collectible. If the opportunity is there, original for me is the best collectable version in the best condition possible. Know what you’re looking for and why. The new Bill Evans RSD release this year is fabulous. If you’re buying collectible, get the best possible pressing and condition combo that makes sense to you, for the right price. The Door’s S/T, big E Monarch pressing with a mint cover and the original sleeve is the way to go. It’s also a real piece of rock history. Same thing goes for my original mint mono “Highway 61”, still in the shrink wrap with the original “Like a Rolling Stone” sticker. It’s the nicest copy I’ve ever seen. My “Beano” Bluesbreakers album is the US London stereo version. Mint cover and vinyl. Would I like an unboxed Decca? Would you like to give me the $200 + for it?

To me, best practices is employing the discipline not to re-buy what you already own or don’t need. Get nostalgic to replace what you got rid of? Be prepared to pay for it. There are exceptions of course. I have the original desirable versions of “Gaucho” and “Brothers in Arms” among others. To me, no need to upgrade. Have an original “Rumours”. I never liked the way it sounded. I jumped on the fantastic Hoffman / Gray 45 rpm reissue. Another exception is the 45 rpm “Kind of Blue”. I have the 180 reissue as well, but I had to have the 45rpm version.

To the other extreme I recently had to have the Bad Co. first album. Checked on the forums and an original was the way to go. I had seen the reissue instore with the alternate takes for $40. I like Bad Co., but not that much. The Hoffman forum said go UK first pressing. I bought a used beat up copy with a cover that looked like it had been taped to the store window. The vinyl was mint after a good wash. $3. It gets played loud. Who cares? It’s not a real collectible.I pick and choose as to what I think is important to me. I had a buddy help guide me through a Sinatra faze. Me, Sinatra? What am I, my parents? Got some of the best of the best. Prices from $3 to $20 for an original "Sands".

You mentioned covers need to be in excellent condition. You’re now collecting, not buying just for the music. A pristine cover on a non-collectable album is nice, but meaningless. If you’re going to go down the condition path for mint covers, you’re going to want the NM vinyl inside. And that means paying the premium. Some swear by Discogs, I use it as a guide. I see some of the same sellers with eBay stores. If you really study it, you will begin to see the patterns I’m talking about start to emerge. Sometimes you get lucky.

Welcome to collecting.

VV

 

[Ken Boyd]

It seems to me that the individuals approach here on AK is about as diverse as the members here. What one person thinks is best for them is the complete opposite of another persons method. I use a combination of all sources, and focus mainly on making sure what I pay good money for is pristine. If its a quarter well just make sure that it doesn't have any scratches, and the vinyl looks great, and I stick every record in a resealable outsleever. Have done that since I starter collecting vinyl and that was almost 50 years ago. So every one of my original records still have their original shrink with all the stickers and price tags of where I purchased them still on them, and the records are for the most part all still perfect, along with their covers.

But for the Pig, I would think if you just approach your vinyl collection like you do your audio gear approach, you will do fine. You have good taste and you appear to take good care of your gear, and that is pretty much the receipe for building a good vinyl libarary.

 

[Todd Dodds]

I'm just tickled pink to learn an LP can be played more than once. That's going to save me a ton.

Lately, I've been shopping by the re-issuers (Analogue Productions, MoFi, etc. as listed above). I browse their catalogues and look for something I need to replace my old originals that took a beating during "The Lost Years". Then start the research and reviews of the various releases. I can often find a sealed copy for an acceptable premium over a NM. Then I get carried away, and start looking for an original as well. Waiting for Tea For the Tillerman from Analogue Productions right now, and looking forward to comparing it to my still nice original.
And, Dear Pig, always remember the fine folks (many amongst us) that sell covers (or jackets).
I've had a couple experiences where I bought a VG disc just to get the NM jacket, and then am pleasantly surprised to find the dealers VG disc was in superb condition.

 

[4-2-7]

The Door’s S/T, big E Monarch pressing with a mint cover and the original sleeve is the way to go.

I just have to disagree with this, no offense. ALL the studio albums put out by AP and 45speed mastered blow away any old copies of the Door's I have, and that's a whole hell of a lot of them. If anyone wants to cut to the chase and bit the built, buying a Doors record from AP your done you now have the best. I can also make this statement for many of their records.

 

[4-2-7]

And this is where I am. I would rather have 800 records of superb quality versus a 5000 record collection of varying condition. My intent is to listen to music I like, and have it be on par condition wise with my stereo. But not everything has to be Acoustic Sounds or MFSL rarity, or quality.

For instance, I enjoy Black Money and Victims, by Culture Club on Color By Numbers. But I am not going to spend $40 on a repress of that album for two songs. Yes I could have it on CD on the music server. But quite often the bog standard pressing played on my casual table sounds better than the CD. But I like the CD for modern folk artists who cannot release their music on vinyl, cause they are too small an artist.

I also find that while I like certain bands, I have little interest in owning them on vinyl. I like the occasional Aerosmith song like most folks, but I have a few pieces of vinyl in meh condition, and I have no interest in sitting down and listening to it. So a rip on the music server is fine for it. I need to seriously re-evaluate my record collection and decide what can stay and be the starter for a music library rebuild.

*** I like my audio room to be comfortable to live in. I like to listen to music, so I want all my vinyl to be worth playing. I am not wanting to be a caretaker to a massive vinyl collection. I only have so much room, and I like my room to aesthetically be appealing to me.

Regards
Mister Pig

I have to agree with all of this and I have gone though great lengths to build a library of quality records new and old. Fortunately buying used records might not cost me as much as others spend just due to my location. Depending on the artist, type of music and the quality of the old copies mastering and pressing there is no need for a new reissue even a pure audiophile copy. When I see some of the reissues coming out I ask why, the title might be very abundant mastered superbly like ZZ Top Afterburner & Eliminator. Both are very very readily available, and mastered by Robert Ludwig and cost $4.00 in mint condition. Now if it's some head banging music that's to crank and rock out well just a good old copy can work out just fine.

However many main artist their records are harder to come by. If it's the type of music like Pink Floyd and Zep with quiet passages you need a very clean copy, this is harder to come by after all these years. If you want a very clean copy of Zep II and mastered by RL this is going to cost hundreds of dollars, the same goes for a reissue on Classic Records. Your pretty much just fine buying the new reissues that cost $24-$40, they're very good and you get a clean quiet copy.

Now for beautiful music one might like and want to sit and listen to every little nuance, and be taken away to another world we need better records. This is where I separate the so called audiophile 180g records that are so common today. From the (What I Call) "pure audiophile" records, your reference pieces. When I want my jaw to drop I'll spend big money on Sarah McLaughlin, Muddy Waters on AP and Classic Records. If you want to see if your system sounds good and has killer head room, put Folk Singer on from Classic or AP. That record has transient peaks of 20db and can just blow you away. Does your system accurately portray piano tones? you'll know after a McLaughlin record done by classic or AP.

 

[4-2-7]

Let me just say this also, I like records and just like to listen to them. Born in a time when we listen to the snap crackle pops all the time. I'm am not anal about my record playing and 75% of the time I'll just throw a record on. Yep might not be Ultrasonically cleaned could have just been bought at the store and gets a little dusting and it's spinning. I'm not psychoanalyzing the SQ, or so worried about condition that I can't enjoy it.

I meen really I get up and dance, who can control themselves if your really enjoying the music.

 

[fiddlefye]

I was wondering when someone was going to start recommending albums. I like the collection by Andreas Vollenweider. These are show-off recordings, complex and ever changing, its jazz, classical, slightly rock fusion keeps them all interesting.

Look for sealed stuff....even on the 'bay.

Vollenweider really is fantastic for both showing off the system and sorting one out as well. The Linda Ronstadt/Nelson Riddle collaborations are another bunch to have in the collection. In both cases you don't even have to absolutely love the music to fall in love with them. Listening to "Sentimental Journey" at the moment, actually.

 

[Ken Boyd]

Funny in the classical genre they were producing audiophile pressings long before the rock or pop community even thought or cared about audiophile pressings. Or at least it seems that way to me.

 

[Ken Boyd]

Vollenweider really is fantastic for both showing off the system and sorting one out as well. The Linda Ronstadt/Nelson Riddle collaborations are another bunch to have in the collection. In both cases you don't even have to absolutely love the music to fall in love with them. Listening to "Sentimental Journey" at the moment, actually.

I have to agree of all the recordings produced with Ronstadt the three that were recorded with the Riddle orchestra were by far the best sounding recordings and pressings IMO of any she ever did. Something tells me it was Nelson Riddle who was instrumental in seeing to the quality of those recordings.

 

[Killer Fox]

One thing I have been doing is buying new box sets of my favorite artists when they go on sale at Amazon, etc. I bought the Hendrix Anthology, Allman Brothers, etc. It's a lot of music for the $$. I buy very few new single albums.

 

[4-2-7]

Funny in the classical genre they were producing audiophile pressings long before the rock or pop community even thought or cared about audiophile pressings. Or at least it seems that way to me.

Well all those old farts died off, a new market today.LOL

But really just like cars, 30 years ago the old farts where restoring concurs condition car that we call antique today 1920-1930 cars. Today the old farts are building mussel cars of the 60s and chopping up all the 20s-40s that where restored and saved and building hot rods.

 

[mkane]

Groove Note is good as is all the Windham Hill recordings which are some of our favorites. Sheffield Labs excellent also. A while back I went coo coo buying records. They are all excellent old and new but I find ourselves listening to about 50 recordings out of 600.

 

[vinyl1]

Besides 70s reissues of "classic" 50s and 60s material, many people are often unaware that great jazz was being made all through the 70s and even into the 80s. Not just jazz fusion or jazz funk either. Lots of classic albums you can get on first pressings for not much money if you crate dig. Same thing with lesser known records from the 50s and 60s or things that are just overlooked today. For example, you can pick up an early pressing (not 70s/80s reissue) of a great 60s hard bop album by a guy like John Handy in nice condition for $5 or $6. Try doing that with any big name jazz artist/album from the 50s or 60s.

Unfortunately, collectors have been getting wise to this sort of stuff. If you look on eBay, you might be surprised at the price some of these 70s and 80s originals go for.

 

[jmfg]

Mr Pig,
I, too, (as so many others) am concerned with the quality (covers & vinyl) of my collection. As has been stated, it can prove to be a very costly affair to upgrade. I utilize every option - local record stores, thrift stores, internet, CL, garage sales, record shows, etc. All have provided me with some great records in great shape, and all have most certainly required an awful lot of time! Prices vary in each of these outlets, and having a general knowledge of what a particular album sells for is an incredible asset. This has led me to focus on spending the most time and money upgrading the albums that I really really love! This also has encouraged trading in albums I don't listen to as much, to help supplement the cost of upgrades. Personally, I love the thrill of the hunt, which often leads to new discoveries - which leads to more upgrades.... It has been my experience that upgrading requires much time and patience and sometimes, a good bit of cash! Best of luck!!!
Great thread - thanks to everyone!