Looking for Recap list

[davros]

I'm getting ready to restore My Dads Sansui 5000X. (Bought at the end of his tour in Vietnam) First look is that its in bad shape cosmetically. I havent opened it yet, but its been in storage since my Nephew said is was "Sounding Funny"

I've already been going over the manual and was going to start a Cap list and was trying to find a known BOM to work with.

The search function has been Wonky for me, so I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction.

I'd like to get this back to him when he visits in November.

Thanks!

 

[tnsilver]

I couldn't find any here either but the service manual can be downloaded at https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/sansui/5000x.shtml (free registration).
I'm afraid you're gonna have to compare the values listed in the PCB's layout to the values in the schematics and then take a final decision based on the values of the caps you pull out. Factory values always win. Also watch out for polarity, sometimes regardless of silkscreen marking.

 

[ConradH]

For the love of dog, troubleshoot it and fix it before doing a shotgun recap. Failure to do this often results in more grief because you potentially add new problems to the existing problem. I've never worked on a 5000, but this may be the one with known board problems.

 

[ghazzer]

Unless it is a very early 5000X all of the F-1040 driver bds were replaced in production. Many others were replaced by Sansui reps under warranty.

Sansui 5000s were usually delivered with schematics folded into a black sleeve that was glued to the underside of the case. Even these schematics don't always agree with what was actually installed at the factory.

Trust, by verify!

 

[davros]

Well, it looks rough inside and out, that's for sure. I can see why my Dad put it in the attic, this unit looks like crap. Missing a nob, dirty as you can imagine, scuffed up and generally mistreated. It looks like its been a Garage Amplifier for years.

I opened it up, and after I removed the 4 (FOUR) Mud Daubers nests from inside (on the boards naturally) I can see it had the updated 6013 boards.

I may clean it up and try to start it with the DBT, but it would be brief, and just to check function.

I didn't know how bad this was. I makes me a bit sad. I listened to this Receiver with my family growing up...

 

[davros]

View attachment 1264018 View attachment 1264020

 

[ghazzer]

Who woulda thought that a dirt dauber could have such refined ears? Go figure - - -

 

[Willy6]

View attachment 1264017 View attachment 1264018 View attachment 1264019 View attachment 1264020 View attachment 1264021 View attachment 1264022 View attachment 1264023 View attachment 1264025 View attachment 1264026

That kind of looks like mud a wasp nest.

 

[LBPete]

Some ants can do that too but I've never seen it inside a piece of electronic gear.

It already has the updated driver boards so you don't have to deal with that issue. It's best you do your own cap list. You are already going to have to take it all apart to clean the mud out. It should be fairly easy to see all the caps while you are in there. Take some paper and draw an outline of each board then draw a circle for each cap on the board and mark the polarity of each cap on that outline. Then take lots of pictures.

As was said earlier, don't even think about replacing the caps until you get the unit working. Just replacing the caps will almost never fix an acute problem and has the potential of adding new mistakes on top of old problems. That increase the difficulty of fixing it.

- Pete

 

[davros]

So an Update. After a quick cleaning of the switches and knobs with DeOxit I fired it up and it lives!

DBT started bright and immediately went so dim it looked like it was off. I'm at a 60W bulb now, I may need to go to 40W.

FM and AM works in both channels.

Sound is weaker in the left channel, and switching to Mono and Reverse both switched the sound.

All knobs work and adjust as they should.

There is hum in both speakers and it increases with volume. This is with or without signal.

Knobs and buttons feel smooth, but are still scratchy.

Various lights are burned out (Tuning needle, One Dial, and one fuse style below the 5 push buttons).

Sound isn't bad, but it doesn't come close to its potential.

20 Minutes on and no unexpected faults.

Closer inspection shows a few Caps are bulging at the bottom. I've still got a long way to go to clean the boards, but they have the mud removed.

I'm going to begin a Cap list. My biggest concern is the Hum, and then restoring the sound quality.

If there are known bad Transistors I will change those, but I have no knowledge of the 5000X, and don't know if it has known issues beyond the original 1040 boards.

 

[ghazzer]

There are probably hundreds of threads here on AK describing the quality of or problems with the 5000, 5000A & 5000X. Enough to occupy most of your spare time until Christmas or beyond. This should solve your last statement.

I hope that you will have good times going through your Dad's 5000X. Completing this project will give you an appreciation of this popular jewel.

Enjoy - - -

 

[avionic]

At least it has the F-6013 boards

 

[slimecity]

Sometimes units hum as they are on the DBT and some sections of the circuit arent getting enough power - I had this recently with my 555a. If there is no short - and the DC offset and bias look OK - you should be OK to take it off the DBT. The hum may go away then.

 

[LBPete]

DBT note: You mention going to a 40W bulb, you probably want to go to a 100W bulb. A 40W will further reduce the operating voltage of the receiver. The lower the wattage bulb, the higher the resistance value of that bulb. The higher the wattage, the lower the resistance. The unit seems to be stable so use a 100W bulb for protection while you are working on it. That will provide current limiting protection while not altering voltages all that much.

- Pete

 

[davros]

Thanks all, I will swap to a 100W and work on the hum first. As its across all modes I'll start at the power supply and work my up.

My search function is working again, and I am up to 3 pages of "5000x recap" results so I will start reading.

Once I actually get the parts and get started I will start a new post with the actual process.

 

[davros]

Addendum...

I followed ConradH's advice and decided to figure out what was working and what wasn't.

I also Followed LBPete's advice I went to a 100W Bulb. The hum was reduced, and overall performance improved.

I followed with a complete tear-down, and clean every control switch and push-button with DeOxit D5 and DeOxit Gold.

Performance improved even more, but the left channel was still weaker than the right, and I realized volume was at 12 o-clock. (Knobs are off and I though the volume was much lower.

I powered down and moved to the back of the unit and gave the level pot a thorough DeOxit treatment. I also hit the MPX separation pot while I was there. I set the poer at the midway point and the same with the MPX.

Test Time,
Now we are talking! Full power and even sound. Cheap test speakers are sounding good, and FM is clear. I can get a lock with Stereo but its right on the edge. All FM resection is weak, but I've got cheap rabbit ears on.

My recapped Pioneer SX-850 go's to full deflection on the tuning meter (with a 6" wire) on the local Christian station. It's a 100,000 watt radio tower that is 20 mile from my house on top of a hill.

With Rabbit Ears the Sansui reads 0 and barely gets a lock. I can hardly receive anything else FM wise.

I still plan on a recap, at the minimum the power supply, and coupling caps.

I will build a complete BOM and order all Caps no matter what.

When I start the Project I make a new thread, Post my BOM and do a step by step record of the re-cap. Just like I did on my Pioneer.

I typically work on one section at a time and then perform a test to make sure I didn't screw anything up.


Please feel free to chime in any "Preventive" issues I should prepare for. The Pioneers seem to have a large amount of guaranteed to fail, or soon fail transistors. I've been doing a bunch of reading, and can't pinpoint any troublemakers on the 5000X (F-1040 boards not applicable), so any heads up is appreciated.

 

[davros]

So caps are on order. Everything works fine except the FM.

FM reception is very weak. I get 3 channels, and all of them are the strongest channels in the area. FM stereo will lock, but only on one channel, and only the most powerful one at that. (100,000 Watts 12 miles away)

Voltage to the FM-1219 board and the FM front end are all in spec.

Tuning capacitor was blown out with air and appears clean and free. (No change before and after cleaning)

After considerable reading, (and a complete lack of FM alignment tools) I believe I may have an issue with one of the FM IC's.

My primary references are the following posts...
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/sansui-tuner-fm-board-part-sub-help.618281/
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/sansui-5000-weak-fm-tuner-two-questions.796835/
http://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=237689

I believe the replacements listed above...
NEC C555A - ECG703 - NTE703 - UPC555a - UA703
are all obsolete.

I can find them on "that" auction site, but not on any of the reputable parts sites.

I may have to risk the "bay" for a source. I even looked for a parts 1219 board to no avail.

Any sources for these, or an updated IC to anyone's knowledge???

 

[ghazzer]

Did you follow step #3 of Dr*Audios tuner cleaning regime? This calls for the use of contact cleaner and Faderlube. I would say that it is more important than blowing it out with air.

 

[davros]

I have.

The contact cleaner was also necessary to remove the gummed up grease in the bearings. Also this Tuning cap has 3 spring style contact points to make the ground for the tuning capacitor. Those points were also greased (also gummed up). I followed up with 100% deoxit on the contacts, (needle applicator) worked it (Hey the needle doesn't stick now!) and let it sit overnight.

Next day cleaned again, oiled the bearings with turbine oil, and fader-lubed the moving, spring loaded contacts.

Those spring loaded contacts were greased before, so I will likely do the same once I get this problem sorted out.

I should have specified "Cleaned as per Dr*Audio" but with all the debris in this unit when I started "Blown Out" was a large part of the cleaning....

 

[davros]

I'm going to move this to a different thread as I seem to have moved into a different topic. Maybe a troubleshooting thread...