LP's vs CD's
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Justen
Send Lawyers,Guns & Money
To me it really is dependent on the disc. I like the sound of vinyl, especially when compared to early cd's where you can make a direct comparison between the two formats.
However I think that digital recording has much improved, as has playback CDP's so I think that most newer cd releases sound very good and very little is lost that would appear on vinyl.
I personally like a blend- I run my cd's through a tube amp which I think creates a very pleasing, warm feel.
However I think that digital recording has much improved, as has playback CDP's so I think that most newer cd releases sound very good and very little is lost that would appear on vinyl.
I personally like a blend- I run my cd's through a tube amp which I think creates a very pleasing, warm feel.
BlackSwamp
Previously DingusBoy
Grumpy may be the only active member that feels stronger than I on this subject.
Vinyl absolutely crushes CD playback. Both my vinyl rig and primary CDP are quality components and FWIW I have about the same amount of cash invested in both. I recently purchased a vinyl copy of what I considered one of my best sounding CDs. This is a digitally mastered piece of vinyl so you'd think it'd be close. NOPE The vinyl is so much more alive, inviting and open.
My experience suggests the only advantage of CDs is they are easier to play. But your results may vary.
Vinyl absolutely crushes CD playback. Both my vinyl rig and primary CDP are quality components and FWIW I have about the same amount of cash invested in both. I recently purchased a vinyl copy of what I considered one of my best sounding CDs. This is a digitally mastered piece of vinyl so you'd think it'd be close. NOPE The vinyl is so much more alive, inviting and open.
My experience suggests the only advantage of CDs is they are easier to play. But your results may vary.
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Billfort
Addicted Member
Hmmm, might be debatable...DingusBoy said:
Personally, I've always preferred vinyl set-ups to CD even when the price point was ridiculously skewed in favor of CD. I got so tired of hearing decent entry level TT's absolutely smoke mega dollar 'state of art' latest and greatest CD players that I just don't bother listening to these comparisons anymore.
I do find that some SACD releases in my system get a little closer to the magic of vinyl than any CD does and I find this kind of encouraging for the future but at the end of the day, nothing does music for me like the LP does.
ProAc_Fan
Addicted Member
I've been converted back to vinyl by my experience at AK. The only time I spin CD's now is when vinyl is not available. I have quite a few albums on both CD and vinyl and even with my fairly modest TT it's no comparison. The vinyl is just so much more alive than a CD could ever hope for. The only advantage to CD's are their ease of use. If music really matters to you though, the cleaning and care of vinyl, the time spent aligning cartridges, adjusting the VTA and tracking force are just part of the FUN. I recommend to everyone to at least pickup a decent TT, put a BRAND NEW cart on it, sit back and hear what you've been missing.
Mike
Mike
AgentWinchester
Batteries not included
This is completely "nonpartisan" to the subject, but i read somewhere that vynil can reproduce a waveform more accurately than a CD (howstuffworks.com i beleive)
However, Vinyl for me.
However, Vinyl for me.
F
foetusized
Guest
Personally, I generally cannot hear the difference. Overall I like CDs better, both for ease in handling and playing, and the lack of surface pop and crackle.
Before anyone accuses me of having a tin ear, I already know that I do. Due to a bad run of ear infections as a kid, both of my eardrums are scar tissue, and I have problems with middle ear conduction as well. Ever had a middle ear infection? With the damaged bones in my middle ear, I hear similar to that all the time. By the time the sound gets through my damaged "hardware" to my brain its all the same to me -- Foe
Before anyone accuses me of having a tin ear, I already know that I do. Due to a bad run of ear infections as a kid, both of my eardrums are scar tissue, and I have problems with middle ear conduction as well. Ever had a middle ear infection? With the damaged bones in my middle ear, I hear similar to that all the time. By the time the sound gets through my damaged "hardware" to my brain its all the same to me -- Foe
Yamaha B-2
registered user
Digital format sure is convenient. But I can't listen to digital for long before my teeth are on edge. Something about it makes me want to grind my teeth after about two hours. Even a good SACD is still not without this 'edge' to my ears. Better than redbook CDs, but still not good enough for long-term listening.
For all my critical listening I choose vinyl. Simply sounds better and closer to live music IMHO. Especially with a good analog rig (which I believe I have).
A format you have not mentioned is FM radio. I have recently rediscovered how good FM can be with a good antenna (yagi) and a good tuner. Its not vinyl, but it does seem to remove the worst attributes of digital when you pick it up from the airwaves. Still some pretty decent non-compressed stations out there. Especially around the major metropolitan centers.
For all my critical listening I choose vinyl. Simply sounds better and closer to live music IMHO. Especially with a good analog rig (which I believe I have).
A format you have not mentioned is FM radio. I have recently rediscovered how good FM can be with a good antenna (yagi) and a good tuner. Its not vinyl, but it does seem to remove the worst attributes of digital when you pick it up from the airwaves. Still some pretty decent non-compressed stations out there. Especially around the major metropolitan centers.
Wireworm5
Audiophile
You almost have me conviced to pull one of my 3 TT out of the closet, NOT! Maybe you guys are on to something, I just need to get a good cartridge. Personally I abandoned LPs some 10 to 15 years ago. I like the convenience of cd's and no background noise.
I can easily produce an LP sound when I get a bad burn on my cd-r's. I would need to hear one of youse guys vinyl rig to hop on the vinyl wagon. And if I tranfer a vinyl album to cd am I not getting vinyl? :finger:
I can easily produce an LP sound when I get a bad burn on my cd-r's. I would need to hear one of youse guys vinyl rig to hop on the vinyl wagon. And if I tranfer a vinyl album to cd am I not getting vinyl? :finger:
mobydud
Analog Again
Another AK Vinyl convert
When I joined AK I was all Cd...I had abandoned my turntable years ago and it was quite litteraly up in the closet, top shelf, boxes piled on etc..I had quit buying albums about 10 years before. The last batch I got from the last remaining record club pushed me over the digital edge. Even brand new they sounded like pure crap. Thin brittle, noisy..everything I hate in music. I didn't really know there was a difference in "pressings" and quality among albums..to me a record was a record. But I was trying to hang on because I simply liked them. Before the internet though, there was just no longer a choice. Vinyl didn't exist where I lived..much anyway.
So I plunked down a good chunk on a very high end Cd player for the time..and it sounded good. Real good..still does, for a Cd player. ( Denon DCD 1520 if you gotta know )
Years pass and things change. Kept reading threads here about how vinyl just swallowed digital sound. Finally the bug bit me to get out the old table and hook it up, just for grins really, nothing else.
Put on my sole remaining album...Fleetwood Mac's Rumors..and it had played no more than a minute before I had a big wide grin on my face like I hadn't gotten from a stereo for a longgg time
That was with no setup whatsoever and a filthy and scratchy old album..after some heavy cleaning and an attempt to dial in the table..putting the same Cd and Album on at the same time and playing one after the other, it was very clear that even with the noise and the rough adjusted turntable..that it was making my Cd player fear for its life!!
And now the Cd player is in the bedroom with a headphone setup. My new old turntable is currently my only source in the main setup.
And I'm Lovin It
When I joined AK I was all Cd...I had abandoned my turntable years ago and it was quite litteraly up in the closet, top shelf, boxes piled on etc..I had quit buying albums about 10 years before. The last batch I got from the last remaining record club pushed me over the digital edge. Even brand new they sounded like pure crap. Thin brittle, noisy..everything I hate in music. I didn't really know there was a difference in "pressings" and quality among albums..to me a record was a record. But I was trying to hang on because I simply liked them. Before the internet though, there was just no longer a choice. Vinyl didn't exist where I lived..much anyway.
So I plunked down a good chunk on a very high end Cd player for the time..and it sounded good. Real good..still does, for a Cd player. ( Denon DCD 1520 if you gotta know )
Years pass and things change. Kept reading threads here about how vinyl just swallowed digital sound. Finally the bug bit me to get out the old table and hook it up, just for grins really, nothing else.
Put on my sole remaining album...Fleetwood Mac's Rumors..and it had played no more than a minute before I had a big wide grin on my face like I hadn't gotten from a stereo for a longgg time
That was with no setup whatsoever and a filthy and scratchy old album..after some heavy cleaning and an attempt to dial in the table..putting the same Cd and Album on at the same time and playing one after the other, it was very clear that even with the noise and the rough adjusted turntable..that it was making my Cd player fear for its life!!
And now the Cd player is in the bedroom with a headphone setup. My new old turntable is currently my only source in the main setup.
And I'm Lovin It
ProAc_Fan
Addicted Member
Wireworm5 said:
Wireworm if you get pops, clicks and background noise then something is WRONG. For fun I'll often put on both a CD player and the turntable and ask the listener which source is playing. 9 times out of 10 they can't tell the difference. When I ask them which they prefer it's almost universally the vinyl they like better.
Mike
Yamaha B-2
registered user
One thing that has not been mentioned by us commited vinylphiles is that the better the cartridge the quieter the background on the same record. At least with MC cartridges. That is one big part of a more expensive MC cartridge's magic. It has the uncanny ability to reduce the effects of surface noise while at the same time bringing much more music out of the grooves.
I have been buying, listening to and collecting music since the 1950's. I have thousands of LP's, hundreds of RtoR tapes and a few CD's. When the CD first came out, I bought a player and was instantly dissapointed. I discovered that the all digital recordings (DDD) were the best, but were no competition to the what I already had. A few years ago, I purchased some video buy-out music for use on a video project. I was amazed, it sounded great on my old CDP 101 but sounded terrible on a newer player. I began to re-think the whole issue. I lucked into a Lynn CD player for almost no money and was again amazed how good some of my CD's sounded.
I think there are two issues here. First, the player, either CD or TT. No matter what recording you are playing, you need a good player. I seriously doubt that any CD player priced under $2,000. is any good. The same goes for a TT. I like my Thorens and my Grado cart. The second and possibly the most important, the recording itself. A good recording is just that, a good recording and a bad recording will sound bad even if it's played and very expensive gear.
To my ear, recordings made with tubes, or all digital recordings are the best. I also prefer recordings that use hall acoustics rather than lots of chanels which are mixed later. Modern recording tends to mic too close to the instrament and mechanical sounds get mixed in with the music. I want to hear the musical note, not the fingering sounds.
I think I should also tell you what I am using for a system, because that can also have a lot to do with how a particular recording sounds. I have a Mcintosh C24 preamp, into a Mcintosh MQ 102, into a Dynaco ST-70 driving AR 3a speakers. To my ear, old as it is, I demand accurate reproduction and think I get it. If a recording is accurate and so is the system, any format will sound good.
Clyde
I think there are two issues here. First, the player, either CD or TT. No matter what recording you are playing, you need a good player. I seriously doubt that any CD player priced under $2,000. is any good. The same goes for a TT. I like my Thorens and my Grado cart. The second and possibly the most important, the recording itself. A good recording is just that, a good recording and a bad recording will sound bad even if it's played and very expensive gear.
To my ear, recordings made with tubes, or all digital recordings are the best. I also prefer recordings that use hall acoustics rather than lots of chanels which are mixed later. Modern recording tends to mic too close to the instrament and mechanical sounds get mixed in with the music. I want to hear the musical note, not the fingering sounds.
I think I should also tell you what I am using for a system, because that can also have a lot to do with how a particular recording sounds. I have a Mcintosh C24 preamp, into a Mcintosh MQ 102, into a Dynaco ST-70 driving AR 3a speakers. To my ear, old as it is, I demand accurate reproduction and think I get it. If a recording is accurate and so is the system, any format will sound good.
Clyde
The best analog will beat any CD system, but the best analog is *hideously expensive*. With moderately priced systems, its not really a sure bet. My TT and CDP are comperably priced, and voiced similarly, so there is not a huge difference. Digital has come a very long way, both in playback and recording.
OTOH, cheap analog if far less annoying than cheap digital(which still sucks).
Jack
OTOH, cheap analog if far less annoying than cheap digital(which still sucks).
Jack
cfoster said:
Many folks have had VERY good luck with the original Rega Planet CD player. I heard a few weeks ago a Jolida Tube-Based player, also under $1000, and I was stunned at how great it sounded.
THe Philips 963 DVD/CD player has an upsampling option for CD play back. It does take alot of the digital "edge" off many CD's. I picked this player up for under $300.
hotgas
Super Member
I have somewhat expensive CD and vinyl systems. They are very competent to each other. I can't say which one is better though. I prefer CD's for its dynamic range and no dust noise. No matter how thoroughly I clean my records with a VPI 16.5 I always be able to hear occasionally dust noise during the play. Other than dust noise records sound is very warm and intimate. I now record both record's and CD's on 10" reel to reel tapes.
Yamaha B-2
registered user
Jack G said:
I humbly disagree. You can get an excellent TT w/arm for <$600. Especially if you are willing to purchase used (Rega 3, MMF 5 or 7, Micro Seiki, Sota, etc.). If you want the next rung up the ladder get something without an arm (VPI HW-19 Mk III or IV, Rega 25, better Sota or MS, etc.) and then buy a used SME 309 or Rega R-300/600 arm. Still in the $1500 range. Add a Kontrapunkt B or Sumiko Blackbird for $700 to either system and you are in business for $1200 to $2000. Certainly not "hideously expensive" by any stretch of the imagination.
If you want to stay below $1000 then opt for the Shure V15-VxMR or something comparable in price like the Sumiko Blue-point Special. Terrific sound for considerably under $1000. You'll never look at a CD/SACD/DVD-A in the same way again.
If you need a phono stage get a NAD PP-2 with the large PS. Under $200 and does a very good job for MC/MM. Obviously, spend more money and get a better preamp and better sound. But still not hideously expensive.
The vintage Sony ES and Yamaha series of separate preamps and Sony's ES series of integrated amps all have wonderful phono stages built-in and will handle both MM & MC. I have owned half-a-dozen of these and they are all comparable in sound quality to $1000+ stand-alone phono stages. And, their overall sound on all sources is truly excellent. I found the Sony TA-F808ES integrated amp with its MOSFET output stage and built-in phono stage to be one of the most sensational individual pieces of gear I have ever owned for the reproduction of sound from vinyl (or any other source, for that matter). Almost as good as my currently set-up.
Wireworm5
Audiophile
After reading Howstuffworks website, I conclude that you vinyl heads may have a valid claim. If I understand correctly this would be due to analog to digital conversion. As good as a sampling rate may be, there is still a degree of inherant inaccuracies compared to the original analog wave. Not detectable to the average person on a Low-Fi system, but on a HI-Fi system this edgyness that you people are discribing may very well be evident.
However it is also my understanding that a cd is capable of higher dynamic ranges than vinyl. So in this respect a cd would be superior.
Anyone care to comment?
However it is also my understanding that a cd is capable of higher dynamic ranges than vinyl. So in this respect a cd would be superior.
Anyone care to comment?
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