Lube alternative to Deoxit F100 for carbon potentiometers

[sssboa]

Hi

So Deoxit F100 is no longer available in Europe.
What do you use for lubrication inside carbon pots and faders once you have cleaned them with a contact cleaner? I tried Super Lube with Syncolon but I found it inferior to F100. Caused crackling sometimes, but maybe it's just me? Also to me F5 and other deoxits with solvent do not lubricate enough on their own. D100 is for metal to metal switches rather.

 

[jd3rdcoast]

CRC-2-26

 

[Retrovert]

What do you use for lubrication inside carbon pots and faders once you have cleaned them with a contact cleaner? I tried Super Lube with Syncolon but I found it inferior to F100. Caused crackling sometimes, but maybe it's just me?.

I use the Super Lube version of silicone grease for all sorts of things and always had excellent results. BUT, I use the tube form of it, not the aerosol.

What you describe is a result of the heptane in the aerosol form, as the carrier will attack some plastics and cause the crazing you describe.

Super Lube itself is silicone grease, a wax and an oil. Compatible with everything, especially plastics.

I suggest you try the solid form which will better work. A dollop of silicone grease (or other solid grease) was originally put into the potentiometer when new. Spraying with cleaners will remove that lubrication. The issue, of course, is that one must remove the back and the tabs may only be bent a small number of times.

 

[sssboa]

I use the Super Lube version of silicone grease for all sorts of things and always had excellent results. BUT, I use the tube form of it, not the aerosol.

What you describe is a result of the heptane in the aerosol form, as the carrier will attack some plastics and cause the crazing you describe.

Super Lube itself is silicone grease, a wax and an oil. Compatible with everything, especially plastics.

I suggest you try the solid form which will better work. A dollop of silicone grease (or other solid grease) was originally put into the potentiometer when new. Spraying with cleaners will remove that lubrication. The issue, of course, is that one must remove the back and the tabs may only be bent a small number of times.

Yes, I used aerosol form.

 

[Retrovert]

The label likely says "petroleum distillates" or some other codeword for solvent.

 

[CAIG Labs]

Hi

So Deoxit F100 is no longer available in Europe.
What do you use for lubrication inside carbon pots and faders once you have cleaned them with a contact cleaner? I tried Super Lube with Syncolon but I found it inferior to F100. Caused crackling sometimes, but maybe it's just me? Also to me F5 and other deoxits with solvent do not lubricate enough on their own. D100 is for metal to metal switches rather.

DeoxIT Fader F100 spray is still available in Europe. Here are the two distributors in Europe that sell it:

http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/catalog.php?category_id=218&mySID=QuzaF1qNH2vExCHefDySU3
https://www.schreeven.nl/zoeken?con...erway=desc&search_query=deoxit&submit_search=

For full list of International distributors, please go to:
http://store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.15/category.5933/ctype.SS/SS.5933/.f

 

[sssboa]

DeoxIT Fader F100 spray is still available in Europe. Here are the two distributors in Europe that sell it:

http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/catalog.php?category_id=218&mySID=QuzaF1qNH2vExCHefDySU3
https://www.schreeven.nl/zoeken?con...erway=desc&search_query=deoxit&submit_search=

For full list of International distributors, please go to:
http://store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.15/category.5933/ctype.SS/SS.5933/.f

For me if I don't see it on Ebay or Amazon, maybe Farnell then it's like unavailable. I'm in UK.

 

[CAIG Labs]

For me if I don't see it on Ebay or Amazon, maybe Farnell then it's like unavailable. I'm in UK.

Please contact our distributor in UK, Probus Electronics. Here is the email address: sales@probuselectronics.co.uk .
I'm not sure if they have the F100 spray but I think they have the DeoxIT Fader in liquid (F100L-L25C) and the 5% spray (F5S-H6).

 

[sssboa]

I use the Super Lube version of silicone grease for all sorts of things and always had excellent results. BUT, I use the tube form of it, not the aerosol.

What you describe is a result of the heptane in the aerosol form, as the carrier will attack some plastics and cause the crazing you describe.

Super Lube itself is silicone grease, a wax and an oil. Compatible with everything, especially plastics.

I suggest you try the solid form which will better work. A dollop of silicone grease (or other solid grease) was originally put into the potentiometer when new. Spraying with cleaners will remove that lubrication. The issue, of course, is that one must remove the back and the tabs may only be bent a small number of times.

So I bought Super Lube in tube. But it's kind of a gel not liquid. Is it alright? It could be convenient to use with better access to the place but with a closed potentiometer it's not going to be easy?

 

[steveUK]

I'm in the UK, I use Servisol Super 10 switch cleaner. Always enjoyed great results.

 

[sssboa]

So I bought Super Lube in tube. But it's kind of a gel not liquid. Is it alright? It could be convenient to use with better access to the place but with a closed potentiometer it's not going to be easy?

I bought grease. Should have bought lubricant.

 

[sssboa]

I'm in the UK, I use Servisol Super 10 switch cleaner. Always enjoyed great results.

I use this for cleaning switches sometimes. But for lubrication this only is not enough rather. At least for rotation potentiometers.

 

[Retrovert]

A dollop of grease was placed in the potentiometer during manufacture. The advantage of a thicker grease is that it stays put and tends to hold the control in place, preserving the setting. A thinner lubricant does not offer such advantages, and the silicone oil used in sprays tends to creep.

 

[sssboa]

I tried

A dollop of grease was placed in the potentiometer during manufacture. The advantage of a thicker grease is that it stays put and tends to hold the control in place, preserving the setting. A thinner lubricant does not offer such advantages, and the silicone oil used in sprays tends to creep.

I tried and put some of the grease inside a pot. I am not sure if the wipers can spread it by themselves though. Good thing that it didn't cause any problems at least.

 

[steveUK]

I disagree entirely with putting any form of grease inside a pot. Given time it will harden and cause many problems including intermittent electrical operation, mechanically inconsistent operation etc etc. With respect I think you're looking into this whole issue a bit too deeply. A good, purpose made contact cleaner/lubricant will do the job perfectly well, you don't have to bother with separate cleaners and lubricants. For example, the Servisol Super 10 switch cleaner I mentioned earlier, here the manufacturer's product description:

SUPER 10 SWITCH CLEANING LUBRICANT

SUPER 10 is a highly efficient switch and contact cleaner. It offers a combination of high purity electrical cleaning and mechanical lubrications for contacts, switches and relays.

APPLICATIONS Removes grease, tarnish, oxidisation and other contamination from contact surfaces and leaves a protective conductive lubricating film. Cuts voltage drop between contacts by increasing the surface area and reducing resistance. The residual film resists drying and the attraction of dust. Eliminates contact bounce and stops the damage which can be caused by arcing between contacts. Improves the current flow and protects against friction.

Yes I know, I know, it doesn't mention pots. The fact is, electronic engineers have been using it with great success on pots for years including myself.

 

[Retrovert]

I disagree entirely with putting any form of grease inside a pot. Given time it will harden and cause many problems including intermittent electrical operation, mechanically inconsistent operation etc etc. With respect I think you're looking into this whole issue a bit too deeply.

You are incorrect and promulgating very poor advice. A dollop of lubricant was added when the potentiometer was manufactured.

You do understand this?

The lubricant protects the resistance element and prevents it from wearing away. Anyone who services mixer consoles will tell you that without the lubricant the wiper will wear away the element.

Silicone grease has a long lifespan. Far longer than the original, and likely animal based, grease. The fact that a lubricant eventually hardens is not an argument to avoid it. If this were a valid approach we'd never lubricate wheel bearings on cars.

The lifespan of the replacement silicone grease likely exceeds that of the devices owner.

A good, purpose made contact cleaner/lubricant will do the job perfectly well, you don't have to bother with separate cleaners and lubricants. For example, the Servisol Super 10 switch cleaner I mentioned earlier, here the manufacturer's product description: .

This product is not suitable. A cleaner removes whatever lubricant remains, putting the element at risk of premature wear and failure. This product is intended to clean switches, not potentiometers.

The product you promote is a cleaner with hydrocarbons. Look at the SDS. It will attack some plastics and this includes the resistance element.

I'm off to the beach so further rebuttal will have to await my return.

 

[sssboa]

When it comes to Servisol I still think its lubrication is enough for switches for sure but not pots. Same applies to deoxit F5/D5.

Once I sent an amp to techs just after Deoxit D5/F5/Servisol treatment. Yeah, I used all of them in sequence on a very stubborn pot. The pot was still scratchy no matter what and I thought I had damaged it with those cleaners. The techs said that to start with the pot was very dry. So cleaning aside, the cleaners didn't lubricate enough.

I just ran out of Deoxit F5 so cleaned a treble pot with Servisol. I think Servisol (and Deoxit with solvents too) could damage carbon layer of some 1960s pots, there was a discussion in the past. Does it say on Servisol it's safe on plastics? Hope it won't eat through this 1980s pot. I used canned air after and then some F100 and super lube to finish.

 

[steveUK]

The use of silicone lubricants is a definite no no in the world of electronics and is well documented. Just google it. NASA are amongst those who do not allow its use near contacts, never mind anyone who services mixer consoles.

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/2005ESASP.591..125W

 

[ConradH]

The world of lubricants is a confusing place and even with good research you can reach some wrong conclusions. The world of electrical lubricants is even worse. The following are things I believe to be true, but based on all the other bad info I've found, I'm willing to change my beliefs at any time:

Superlube grease is not silicone grease. It's a PAO based lubricant thickened with fumed silica and 5 micron PTFE particles. IMO, it's one of the best things out there for both electrical and other uses. It should last a long time without thickening or changing in any way. I've contacted them and they do recommend it as an electrical lubricant.

Superlube oil with PTFE is good for places where you'd oil something, but I don't use it for contacts or pots, just bushings and rollers (like for tuner cords).

Superlube low viscosity oil without PTFE is great for sintered bearings, say in turntables or similar where you don't want PTFE particles.

Common #2 or thinner greases (and damping greases) do not lift contacts in operation. You'd think it was a risk, but at the scale and pressures it would be a rare occurrence.

It's essential to have a lubricant on contacts and on most pot tracks (but not all).

Vegetable and animal oils are usually better lubricants then petroleum oils. That's why they're commonly used in metalworking, lathe and mill work, drilling and tapping, etc. Unfortunately, with the exception of sperm whale oil that used to be used in clocks and watches and a few other exotic oils, they don't age well. They gum up, dry up, go rancid and are otherwise troublesome. Keep the lard out of your pots!

You'll rarely know exactly what materials are used for pot tracks. That means that all lubricant choices are a bit of a crap shoot in terms of long term compatibility.

Almost all greases are dielectric greases, insulators. In very thin films (like contacts and on pot wipers) there is no problem getting good low resistance contact.

Grease is generally a base oil, thickened with various soaps or other things. If you want to know about a grease, examine the base oil properties, then the thickener.

Damping greases are used in pots and can be designed into three different locations. They can go in the bushing and damp the shaft. They can go on the pot track itself, providing both lubrication and damping. They can go on a spring loaded rear disk, providing better damping because the radius is larger. Or any combination of the above.

Here are some links I've found useful, but follow the additional links and did deeper to learn anything. There is no one good source of info:
https://www.nyelubricants.com/connectors (read various linked items on page)
https://www.nyelubricants.com/stuff...e6f182944af7f1/en/lubenote_potentiometers.pdf
http://www.santolubes.com/industry/electronics/ (you can't afford this stuff, but it's probably the best there is)
http://www.aerosil.com/product/aerosil/en/products/ (sometimes used as a grease thickener, also in food products and cosmetics)
https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/30727/determine-grease-compatibility (watch out for grease compatibility if you don't clean well)

Don't forget that Caig has several greases with Deoxit. Haven't tried 'em yet.

 

[Retrovert]

Having return from a day at the beach looking at half-naked people in costumes, I'm heading to bed. (No sunburn; the joys of SPF 70.) But here is a short addition to elaborate upon Conrad's excellent writeup.

First, silicone grease is made by mixing silicone oil with fumed silica. That's the recipe by definition.

All grease means, at least in the chemical vernacular, is a thickening agent dispersed in a liquid lubricant.

So Superlube Silicone Lubricating Compound is a silicone grease. Food grade, too, in case one suffers from pica. (I do not, just in case anyone was wondering. Yeah, I know, TMI.)

Grease is commonly made from a base of animal fat, petroleum, or silicone to which a thickener, typically a soap (aka stearate), is added. Animal fat is chemically identical to many vegetable oils, by the way. Which makes sense as this is where we often acquire them.

Soap is commonly made by reacting fats with a strong base (commonly metal hydroxide of some sort). In practice this is sodium hydroxide (lye) plus fat. The historical way of making soap was to add wood ash (a source of sodium hydroxide) to liquified animal fat which had been cooked to separate out any non-fat components. (The specific gravity of the lye was checked by floating an egg in the wood-ash solution. Remember this trick when you need to make soap after the zombie apocalypse and can't find a hydrometer.)

Lithium grease replaces the sodium (or potassium) hydroxide with something like lithium hydroxide, or something similar. Calcium hydroxide and aluminum hydroxide produce other greases. The properties vary for shear strength, resistance to oxidation, etc.

Grease hardens for a few reasons. The major cause is temperature: when grease is overheated the oil can boil out and polymerize (crosslinks to form a sticky material) and the thickener congeals. If the grease is spun in a high-speed bearing the centrifugal force (yes, it is a fictitious force as was hammered into us in first semester physics) can act like a centrifuge and separate the layers. The oil can oxidize, so anti-oxidants are often added. After many years the antioxidants are exhausted and the oil turns into sludge. Oxidation is the common failure for rotary controls in audio, btw. Not enough centrifugal force or heat.

Silicone grease doesn't use a soap, but it does bind the silicone oil to the thickener, which prevents creep as is the issue with ordinary silicone oil.

I have been using Super Lube for years and have suggested it for poteniometers because it stays put and makes a control which is quite viscous in movement, a very handy feature for controls which should not move once put into position. Such as with mixer consoles. The spray lubricants often contain silicone oil, or a solvent which tends to liberate the oil from the grease, which can be problematic.