Lucky Thrift Store Find

homeskillet

New Member
Was at a local thrift store the other day. Found a 220t and a 440t, both for $5.98 a piece! The 220 sings! All of it's functions seem to be in good working order, a DC bias of under 10mV on both channels (7 left and 8 right)

The 440 is a different story, did a bias check and the meter read 2V!! :no: after a quick sweep with the oscope i got a clean sine wave at the speaker out terminals. I hooked up some cheap rca speakers, and almost no audible sound comes out. I took the panels off and the large electrolytics all seem to be ok, smooth tops, no weird cracks/leaks. My next plan is to go through and check all the small transistors as some offered interesting buzzes (through the speakers) when probed. If anyone can suggest a place to find a digital copy of the service manual and replacement knobs for the 440 it would be much appreciated!
I will be posting photos soon.
 
Don't know about digital copies of the Service Manuals(haven't seen a digital for anything FISHER made after 1970 in the usual places), but for paper copies go to Rick @ stereomanuals.com. He has repro's that will rival and most times exceed the clarity of the originals.

Larry
 
"cabs"? if you mean speakers, no they didn't come with speakers. if you mean something else that i should know sorry for my ignorance, i'm kinda new to this.
 
"cabs"? if you mean speakers, no they didn't come with speakers. if you mean something else that i should know sorry for my ignorance, i'm kinda new to this.

Cabinets. These instruments either came with them, or they did not (for console and wall mounting).
 
here's the front
DSC00421.jpg

and i think i may have found a, if not the, problem:
DSC00417.jpg
 
DSC00421.jpg


DSC00417.jpg


homeskillet. If you post your pictures from Photobucket, and then move them, you end up with a broken link, as above.

the cap may have leaked. Is the amp cap coupled? Could be the coupling caps are bad, Even tho they look ok. Did you test them with an esr meter?

Fishers of that era are fairly easy to recap. Pull the Output transistors and test them 1st and then go back thru the amp.

Larry
 
as to the photos, my apologies. and as to the capacitors: there is a pair connected in series between some switches on the face plate and the output transistors, I can only assume this is the coupling you were speaking of. As for testing them, i do not have an esr meter, i own a multimeter with a capacitor mode. for using this mode should the amp be powered up?
 
as to the photos, my apologies. and as to the capacitors: there is a pair connected in series between some switches on the face plate and the output transistors, I can only assume this is the coupling you were speaking of. As for testing them, i do not have an esr meter, i own a multimeter with a capacitor mode. for using this mode should the amp be powered up?

Those first generation SS Fishers are capacitive-coupled designs. I've redone a lot of them over the years, before folks recently rediscovered them. Back then, redoing them was a labor of love, as their market value was nil.

While the big cans don't normally cause a problem, ALL the small axial electrolytics scattered throughout the rest of the instruments DO, including the small axials that couple the preamp stages.

You need to replace ALL the small electrolytics first on these, including those on the output stage boards. Leave the large cans alone for now. Yours do not look necessarily bad. Also consider replacing the main rectifiers.

Once you do that, you should be able to safely energize and determine whether the unit is in good shape, or whether further repairs are needed.

PCB traces and solder joints are a weak spot on the Gen I SS Fishers, but are curable with careful rewetting as needed.

Do not allow the output devices to overheat. They are typically matched RCA germaniums and not inexpensive to replace. It's a good idea to renew the heatsink junctions with fresh grease.

Do the 220 first, as it is an easier prep course for the more complex 440.

People constantly rush to tear out all the big silver cans on mere presumption, when 90% of the time it is the little axials nearby (that most ignore) that are causing the problems.
 
Do the 220 first, as it is an easier prep course for the more complex 440.

the 220 had a near perfect DC bias and the scope showed nothing odd. is a re-cap still a good idea? considering it tested out ok i didn't see any reason in opening it up.
 
The lytic's in it and the PIO's (ERO's or EROFOILS, or Ducati's) have a nasty tendency to open up on the ends and blow out, even to the point of it working 1/2way decently while blown. Plus they are way over end of life (>20 years). The smaller ones dry out 1st. I'd replace all of the lytics on the boards except the tuner boards, power supply caps, diodes, and the lytic coupling caps (provided it's cap coupled). Test it after that. If no hum you can wait on the Main Filter Caps for a while.

They are good, solid built receivers. Not too hard to work on(try a Sansui 1000A as your 1st, guaranteed to lose hair over it) and they sound loads better afterward.

Larry
 
Another vintage Fisher piece saved from oblivion.

Keep looking for more . . . and more . . . and . . .

Nuf said
 
The lytic's in it and the PIO's (ERO's or EROFOILS, or Ducati's) . . .

Larry

Fisher never used PIOs in these models. I do not recall seeing any Ducati's, but then again I haven't every of the 100,000+ units they made.

I reiterate, REPLACE ALL THE SMALL ELECTROLYTICS. ALL OF THEM. EVERY SINGLE ONE. These are typically ERO axials in a pale gold case. On top of everything else, they are used for interstage coupling in the SS models, and bad ones will cause a "no audio", "one channel out", or "one channel weaker" condition. Use a high quality replacement for the couplers. I am partial to Atoms throughout, but there are some good Nichicons that also work great. Don't upgrade to films in the couplers, despite the conventional wisdom and the natural urge to do so. The unit is voiced around the 'lytics, and together with the germaniums contributes to the warm, tube-like timbre.

Erofols (e.g. Ero-Fol II) are polyester film and foils, and can show up in the MPX boards on these SS units. On the SS PCBs, they sometimes show up as a later version square radial package. While the older axial Erofols are a more serious problem in the HV tubed circuits, the films in the low-voltage SS models are usually FINE. If you deem to replace them, a CDE DME is a reasonable sonic approximation.

Again, REPLACE ALL THE SMALL ELECTROLYTICS. Leave the big cans alone to start.
 
Nice Fisher! That is when they made good quality equipment. The only thing I find is the BPC "Studio Standard" stuff.
 
Fisher never used PIOs in these models. I do not recall seeing any Ducati's, but then again I haven't every of the 100,000+ units they made.

I reiterate, REPLACE ALL THE SMALL ELECTROLYTICS. ALL OF THEM. EVERY SINGLE ONE. These are typically ERO axials in a pale gold case. On top of everything else, they are used for interstage coupling in the SS models, and bad ones will cause a "no audio", "one channel out", or "one channel weaker" condition. Use a high quality replacement for the couplers. I am partial to Atoms throughout, but there are some good Nichicons that also work great. Don't upgrade to films in the couplers, despite the conventional wisdom and the natural urge to do so. The unit is voiced around the 'lytics, and together with the germaniums contributes to the warm, tube-like timbre.

Erofols (e.g. Ero-Fol II) are polyester film and foils, and can show up in the MPX boards on these SS units. On the SS PCBs, they sometimes show up as a later version square radial package. While the older axial Erofols are a more serious problem in the HV tubed circuits, the films in the low-voltage SS models are usually FINE. If you deem to replace them, a CDE DME is a reasonable sonic approximation.

Again, REPLACE ALL THE SMALL ELECTROLYTICS. Leave the big cans alone to start.

finally got my service manual for the 440, made an order list for new caps, replacing ALL electrolytics. went on a search via the web for parts, and much to my dismay i could only find a handful (5 or so out of 32) with an exact match for Farads and voltage. is it necessary to replace with caps that have the same rating as the voltage rating used in the original circuits?

I also found a "serviced" sticker on the bottom of the 440 dated 5/5/76. have done a quick search for the company (Beatty Stereo) with nothing promising coming up on google.

I bring up the service because the preamp board has a lytic that someone colored red on the back and labeled with a number.
DSC00434.jpg

also, wrapped around that cap is a part(diode or cap, not sure) that is not present in the schematics(that i have noticed)

are these green "ERO"s the one's you were talking about? the service manual lists them as mylar, should they be replaced as well?
 
The STANDARDS for Capacitor values changed in the EARLY 70's. What used to be is now changed. It gets interesting in that you can parrallel caps and series caps and get combinations to equal a certain value. And the Tolerance +/- was anywhere from +90 to -50%. Most caps today are straight 5-10-20% +/- (the spec is noted when you look for it).

So the following is an example of exchange rates for caps. Using 20% max tolerance.

IF YOU HAVE --- REPLACE WITH
20uf --- 22uf
30uf --- 27uf
40uf --- 33uf or 47uf
50uf --- 47uf or 56uf
60uf --- 56uf or 68uf

and on and on. So capacitors DON'T have to be exact value. As long as the TOLERANCE SPREAD is maintained you won't hurt anything. The Tendency for value is never to go up. In most cases thats true. But if the tolerance spread is greater than the value spread for the replacement, you can go lower. Hence the 33uf for 40uf in theoretical terms. That particular case is getting to the edge so I would tend to hedge on the other side and go UP in value.

VOLTAGE. NEVER GO DOWN. It's always a good idea to go 1 or 2 steps UP in voltage. You get a slight increase in headroom for surges and such. If you have the same value caps but with different voltages on the boards,say 35 and 50V, Order all the caps in 50v. It cuts down the confusion, and slims down your inventory.

Take your list and make the translations and order your caps. I'd bet you can find all of them at one place.

Do it a few times and it gets easier.

Larry
 
that makes my life a lot easier! i was about ready to rip my hair out, as it seems most of the cap supply sites are geared towards tube gear and much higher voltages.
 
that makes my life a lot easier! i was about ready to rip my hair out, as it seems most of the cap supply sites are geared towards tube gear and much higher voltages.

I've done 5 FISHERS, 2 SANSUI's, 4 PIONEERS, 3 AKAI Tape Decks, and some other stuff including a RIDER Chanalyst and have gotten 99% of everything @ www.Mouser.com with the exception of a couple of tubes and those i got from Jim McShane.

Larry
 
would anyone here by chance have a recap list for The Fisher 220? i have the lists for my marantz, Fisher 440, and Dq-10s, and would prefer to order all at once if it's possible.
 
You'd be better off physically verifying the caps on the actual unit. Sometimes the manufacturers made mid run changes which didn't reflect in the manuals. Then check the list against what's in the manual and make changes there. I haven't seen a 220 yet, but it's probably no more than 40-50 total basing that on a 500TX.

Larry
 
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