Mac Mini owners with DACs

Donal64

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I have a late 2012 Mac Mini 2.5 GHz Intel Core i5, and was just gifted a late 2014 Mac Mini 3 GHz i7. I have my CDs digitized to Apple Lossless and stored on an external hard drive and use itunes for playback. I have Boston computer speakers with a sub. I listen to most of my music with my computer, sometimes with headphones. I'm also planning on buying a pair of 300 ohm headphones- Sennheiser HD600.I think it sounds really good as is, but, I keep hearing that a dac will improve the sound. I would like to hear from Mac Mini owners what their opinion is. Is the improvement slight or very noticeable? Also, how much would it cost? Just any inexpensive $20 dac? All opinions appreciated.
 
I digitized all my music in 2016 to a Mac Mini and use Tidal with a Beresford SEG DAC. Used the internal HD and back up daily. I found Audirvana to really improve the sound. Incorporates Tidal too. There is a trial to test it out. https://audirvana.com/
 
Internal DAC is not too bad. You could do better, but it may not be worth the $200 or so.

Then again, the Audio Quest Dragonflys are cheap and well regarded for headphone/powered speakers use.
 
Do NOT go with a $20 DAC. I assumed they were fine until I noticed my CD’s sounded better than my Media Server rips of the same material. I was using a cheap DAC from amazon to connect my AppleTV 2 to my 2 channel system (I stream to the ATV using Home Sharing from my mini and run the ATV headless. Works with ATV 1-3 but not 4 unfortunately).

I went with a Schiit Modi Multibit and I’m extremely pleased.

But before you spend any money, what are you hoping to gain? If you want better sound the first place to start is with better headphones or streaming to a nice music system.

Joel
 
But before you spend any money, what are you hoping to gain? If you want better sound the first place to start is with better headphones or streaming to a nice music system.

I don't know if there is anything to gain. That's why I wanted to hear from Mac Mini owners who use an external DAC. I read that so many people think an external DAC provides an improvement in sound quality, as compared to an onboard DAC in the computer. On the other hand, I've read that some people think the Mac Mini is good as is, and that an external DAC would not offer a significant improvement in sound quality. If there is no significant improvement in sound quality with an external DAC on the Mac Mini, I'll save some money by not spending on a DAC. I have some decent, to me headphones. Looking towards the Sennheiser HD600s.
 
I don't have a MacBook anymore but my Lenovo Yoga has builtin Dolby Audio and sounds pretty good when I stream Pandora, I have this connected to my Kenwood 700C. I don't have an external DAC to test it against though.
 
My Mac Mini uses the optical output to convert for my Marantz 1060 then onto my AR-7's. The DAC is one of those cheapos on the bay. I guess I paid around $8.

I also have a pair of DAC's on our living room setup coming from the TV to a small graphic equalizer. This is done to tame down a heavy 400 HZ boom in the living room. Then onto my Onkyo to feed the 8 JBL speakers around the big TV. Another is used to record on my Awai 4000 deck via fiber optic from the Mac Mini. I have to switch as I have not found a good optic switch to change optic signals from the Marantz to recording on the Awai. The Awai is on the other side of the room and the fiber optic signal gets there distortion free.
I have never paid over $10 for the DAC's.
 
I have a 2014 Mac Mini that functions as (among other things) a music server. It sends optical digital out into an Oppo BDP-105 which functions as a very capable DAC. To my ears lossless files played from the Mini through the Oppo sound just like CDs played through the Oppo. As they should — and the sound is excellent.

I haven’t recently compared the Mac Mini’s analog output directly with the Oppo’s output. I do have a Fostex DAT deck with a thin, constrained-sounding DAC built in, and the improvement is obvious when I play back DATs via the Oppo’s DAC. So at least I can report that not all DACs are equal.
 
I'm running a 2016 Mac Mini with an M2Tech HiFace EVO 2 USB to S/PDIF converter which feeds a Mark Levinson 360s. The 360s also gets digital input from a Wadia no 23 CDP, Sonos Connect and a feed from my Dell Latitude laptop. I bought a cheap S/PDIF converter for the Dell just to A/B the Apple setup. The one piece of the system I would keep is the DAC. It's the most critical component in my opinion. The extra resolution I get out of the Apple setup is most evident when I A/B the Sonos. I mostly stream Amazon music and Pandora from the Sonos and as one might expect the Apple lossless files sound far superior to these old ears. That being said - the Levinson DAC is a champion. I might play around with one of the newer Modwright Oppo Sonica DACS in a few years but I doubt I will ever part with the Levinson. It's output is very consistent regardless of the digital input. To be honest, I am considering pulling out all 3000 of my CDs (long stored away) and going back to spinning CD's along with LPs. I mainly stream music in the AM for convenience and when I get serious I fire up the Apple. I am running iTunes with the Pure Music plug-in. In short the Pure Music plug-in is a pain and I lose sound output every time I play with settings. The whole setup seem too complicated to me. I can't stand the iTunes interface - much prefer Foobar 2000 for the PC but I thought the Apple had better quality sound output. I have been hooking PCs to computers for sound output since early 2000's and I have seen the sound quality go through the roof. The newer HD Tracks are pretty spectacular when fed through the proper system but again, I think it's all become a giant pain in the ass.

I don't mean to rant, the issues I face with my setup could be mitigated by spending more time with the system and documenting my changes. With computers; a systematic approach always seems to yield the best results. A few emails to Pure Music and 3-4 hours on the Apple iTunes forum could probably teach me enough to keep my CDs in storage. The problem is; time, I just don't seem to have much of it anymore. When I want to hear "Damn the Torpedoes" I don't want to go to a forum to figure out how to tweak software to get a desired result. All that said: I think finding a good quality DAC can really make any digital source sound engaging. I spend plenty of time on the analog forums and love my LPs but a really good digital setup can take me to the same place with a lot less setup time.
 
The issue is the pure music plug in. Dump it. I have zero issues using iTunes from my mini. I keep it running and I use the remote app on my iOS devices as my control. I enjoy my music and spend zero time fussing. For my two channel system I stream the music to a headless AppleTV using home sharing. That’s where I added a DAC because the ATV doesn’t have analog out and my receiver doesn’t have toslink in. Enter the Modi Multibit.

Joel
 
I don't know if there is anything to gain. That's why I wanted to hear from Mac Mini owners who use an external DAC. I read that so many people think an external DAC provides an improvement in sound quality, as compared to an onboard DAC in the computer. On the other hand, I've read that some people think the Mac Mini is good as is, and that an external DAC would not offer a significant improvement in sound quality. If there is no significant improvement in sound quality with an external DAC on the Mac Mini, I'll save some money by not spending on a DAC. I have some decent, to me headphones. Looking towards the Sennheiser HD600s.

I would definitely, without a doubt use an external DAC. I just received my Beresford SEG DAC w/headphone jack $260.00 delivered. I was auditioning a Rega DAC R and NAD M51 at more than four to eight times the price and the Beresford won out. That being said, it was for my main listening system. On my computer in my office I use Audioengine speakers and D1 DAC. I guess it is a matter of how much critical listening you do at where you're listening.
 
I would dump iTunes on any platform. There are better systems out there now. Just me.

The OP states that his CD's have been converted to Apple Lossless, would the better systems you mention be able to play Apple Lossless? Just curious is all and I woudn't mind trying something different on my end.
 
I have essentially the same computer and I also use an external HD. I've used a few DACs including the first generation Dragonfly, a Peachtree iDac, and my current setup of a Music Hall 25.2.

I thought the Dragonfly made a nice improvement and would still be using it except I added some sources and needed more digital inputs. I'm very happy with the Music Hall (which is also a pretty nice headphone amp). I can recommend without hesitation.
 
I don't know if there is anything to gain. That's why I wanted to hear from Mac Mini owners who use an external DAC. I read that so many people think an external DAC provides an improvement in sound quality, as compared to an onboard DAC in the computer. On the other hand, I've read that some people think the Mac Mini is good as is, and that an external DAC would not offer a significant improvement in sound quality. If there is no significant improvement in sound quality with an external DAC on the Mac Mini, I'll save some money by not spending on a DAC. I have some decent, to me headphones. Looking towards the Sennheiser HD600s.

People love to spend money chasing small gains. It’s a hobby and that’s fine. But it sounds like you are pretty happy already. I run my mini into my Denon AVR-3805 via toslink and let the DAC in the Denon do the work. Are there better DACs out there? Sure. Do I notice? No. With my two channel system I noticed the difference between the DAC connecting my ATV to my receiver and my Denon DCD-2560 which sounded vastly better. After replacing the $17 REI with a Modi Multibit my media server (through the ATV) sounds amazing and I’m thrilled.

For your setup you are using the internal DAC on the mini. A $99 Modi or something similar would be an improvement, but the question is will you notice. On another forum a person bought a cork mat for their turntable after reading all of the marketing hype and their comment was “I hear no difference at all and it was a waste of money.” Other people swear by them.

Only you can decide. Me? My iTunes collection is awesome. Everything is categorized into genres, many thst i created. Everything has album art, the tags are correct etc, It didn’t get there overnight, but I got it there. I am extremely happy with iTunes as my media server. My library is organized, looks and sounds great, and I have no problem finding what I want to listen to. If you’re is similar, I’d think long and hard before making a change. Know what benefits you will get (solid benefits that you are sure of, not nebulous marketing speak like “it will sound better”) that make the shift worthwhile.

Joel
 
Granted, it's a Macbook Air, not a Mac Mini (although I have one of those as well, so I could do some A/B testing with high resolution audio files), and the headphone jack, while good, was bested by a Meridian Explorer (at least when played through Fostex TH-X00 headphones).

Now if there was only a frustration-free audio application for MacOS. :(

-D
 
Thanks everybody for all the feedback and opinions. I really do appreciate the sharing. Looks like there's gonna be a DAC added to my little system sometime soon. I've been checking some out recently, and right now, I'm leaning kinda heavy towards a Topping D20 or D30.
I thought the comments and opinions on iTunes, jriver and Audirvana were interesting. I've always used iTunes, and at this point, it's pretty easy for me to get it to do what I want. But then, I'm not real complicated. Really not familiar with jriver and Audirvana. I'll have to check them out.
 
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