Magnavox 175 Imbalance Help

Here are complete revised measurements:
6v6:
Pin 2: 20v
3: 308v
4: 313v
7: 20v
8: 20v
Consistent values throughout all tubes.

12ax7:
V1:
1. 74v
3. 1.13v
4. 20v
5. 20v
6. 101v
7. 1.52v
8. 20v

V4:
1. 91v
3. 0.99v
4. 20v
5. 20v
6. 117v
7. 1.34v
8. 20v

First filter cap B+: 321v
Pilot light: 6.5vac

Plugging into the wall still results in channel imbalance.
 
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Last time I had that sort of behavior it was a weak rectifier. Not sure where the OP lives, but if its anywhere nearby I'd happily offer one up for testing. I've got a bunch of them.
 
Someone owned this amp before me and replaced the deathcap/ power supply caps but it looks like it follows the schematics. The transformer looks original and the bell has 'Magnavox C30017G1 A 8 52' inscribed on it.

I'll attach a picture of the underside.

o2vza.jpg
 
Last time I had that sort of behavior it was a weak rectifier. Not sure where the OP lives, but if its anywhere nearby I'd happily offer one up for testing. I've got a bunch of them.

I'm located in NYC! Look's like we're both on the East Coast!
 
if the heater voltage is in spec, I wouldn't expect the B+ to be low even if there was a bucking winding or thermistor in the mix. Generally if one is right, the others are too.
 
The amp came with a 5r4gyb and no one suggested using an 5ar4 specifically. Also, no mod diagrams as the owner had someone else work on the amp.
 
Those numbers you provided from the tranny bell are the part # and date code (52nd week of 1958)
Ive found the old Coil Co. PT's won't keep up with the schematics when converting to stand alone and using a 5U4 rectifier.
I needed to switch to a 5AR4 to get the numbers up. Also running separate feeder lines to the op tubes and opt's helped. After that I was able to get near perfect #'s. Opt's=337v / 6V6's=320v / 12ax7's=133v and 98v

Also, did you compensate BOTH channels when you disconnected the balance pot?
 
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running separate feeder lines to the op tubes and opt's helped. After that I was able to get near perfect #'s. Opt's=337v / 6V6's=320v / 12ax7's=133v and 98v

Also, did you compensate BOTH channels when you disconnected the balance pot?
How would I do this, step by step? (Running feeder lines)

As for the input channels, I have cloned them exactly.
 
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take a resistance reading at the driver cathode pin, to ground, to make sure both feedback lines and cathodes for each channel have about the same resistance.

V1:
Pin3 to Ground: 3.9kohm
8 to Ground: 6.5kohm

V4:
3. 3.9kohm
8. 6.7kohm
 
I have checked with multiple sources components/speakers and confirmed the issue is located in the amp.

For the test signal test, am I connecting my DMM to one set of speaker outputs on my amp?
 
I replaced all of the 470k resistors that Gordon mentioned with new 1% tolerance replacements as well as those in the input circuit. Also found an unused Chinese new production 274B that came with one of my other amps designed for a 5u4 and plugged it in. 6v6 voltages are now sitting around 306v. Channel balance seems to have improved. I am not sure if it's 100% balanced, but seems acceptable for now. I've got a new Sovtek 5ar4 on the way which I hope will improve upon the Chinese 274B.
 
How would I do this, step by step?

The red wire that comes from the power/filter cap and daisy chains to all four 6V6 sockets. From one of the center tube sockets another red wire jumps over from this red wire chain to a tree for output transformer power. This creates one larger load and keeps the tubes and the opts at the same voltage. If you disconnect the jumper wire and run a separate line from the opt's tree to the power/filter cap source instead of going through the tubes, the voltage will go up by virtue of distributing the load. They will also both be able to demand the voltage they need without incumbrance of the other. A 5AR4 rectifier will get the extra needed voltage. You are down by about 20v at all points as well as having a 20v power differential between channels.

From your voltage readings at pins one and six of the 12AX7's we can see a channel imbalance. 20v difference between channels would be a slightly noticeable imbalance. I'd check the resistors for both tubes in this respect to see if there is a bad one or two coming from the power source. Readings here are supposed to reach 135 and 100v for both tubes but.... this all leads backwards into what really should be done. Replacing all the small parts from the ground up. I see original carbon comp resistors. Those are just headaches waiting to happen.
1958 to 2018, they've served proudly.
 
If you disconnect the jumper wire and run a separate line from the opt's tree to the power/filter cap source instead of going through the tubes, the voltage will go up by virtue of distributing the load.

Ok, just so I have this straight, I would disconnect the red lines from the output transformers and then connect them both to the tab holding the right leg of the 47uF 450V Nichicon filter cap, correct? That tab is also where the red jumper wire to the 6v6 chain is connected as well as a large resistor.
 
Im sorry, I was doing this from memory. I see by the pic there is no OPT lug tree on yours but you still got it right. Yes, that is correct, those two red OPT wires tie together then go to the same exact place on the capacitor as the line going to the 6V6's. Thus creating separate feeder lines for the tubes and the transformers. Supply voltage should go up by 5-20v.
I can give you a line diagram of a perfect standalone power supply circuit for a 175 if you want.
Everything depends on starting off with proper voltage and known good parts. :)
 
The red wire coming from the rectifier socket and a red wire coming from the first 6V6 socket meet next to where the old cap can connections are. how do they meet? it looks like they are soldered to the chassis :) that can't be.
Are you the one that chose the coupling capacitors? or was it the last guy? Reason I ask is, now is the time to change them to... "better" types and values if you are going to. Their type and value will affect the voltage readings at pins 1 and 6 of the 12AX7's.
 
There is a red wire connecting the rectifier to the choke (mounted on top of the chassis) then another red wire from the choke to the 6v6. The previous owner chose the coupling caps. What values do you recommend?

I have rewired the output transformer power cables directly to the power supply and replaced two more carbon resistors around the driver tubes. Just have 4 more resistors, a pair of caps, and the cathode bias resistor to go before every single (non-transformer) component has been replaced on this amp.
 
Thats great. It will be ready for many more years, .... and you'll be proud to know that you're the one that fixed it up.
Ug.,Thats right, I forgot about the choke. :)

If you consider that your amp is pretty much a first year stereo amp, (1958 being the first year for widely available stereo sets) what everyone knew about stereo channel separation was in its infancy. The original coupling caps are of a lower value and type, and also the same channel to channel. I re-did a 1958 175-EE for a guy before Christmas and his original caps were .001 ceramic disc even though the schemo here shows .047. Then if you consider 5 years later, the type of layout magnavox put in its 8800 series (the following iteration to the 175) was very different. When an 8800 is rebuilt, people most often comment on how sweet they sound.
In the 8800 series, they often mix-matched cap values and types, channel to channel which is a contributing factor to the "sweetness." Also, in the "olden days" Bass wasn't as much of a concern.
All that said, I used an oil .1uf on the high side of each channel (the two outside tubes) and an early Sprague .050uf orange drop (.047uf is the modern equivalent) on the low side on that 175 and similar on my own 175-67 which is a 1961 model (last year for the 175). Those values stagger types and values pretty well and doesn't increase capacitance enough to need other changes. Bass is a bit increased also.

When it comes time, you mentioned the cathode resistor. When you replace it, and you should, 120ohm/5w is a good number and get a 22uf/50-100v electrolytic cap and place it on the same lugs as the cathode resistor. Tube Socket lug and ground. When you do that, you can remove all the hum pot nonsense.
 
Received the 5ar4 and music is sounding better. I do notice that the power transformer seems warmer than when it was running a 5u4, but I trust this is ok. Channels sound close enough to probably not bother with a full channel to channel component comparison.

I have one final order of parts coming in this week to finish replacing all original components and also to implement Pootintame's coupling caps (0.1uF Mundorf Supreme and 0.047uF orange drop) and cathode resistor mods. Once all that's wired in, I'll take a final voltage reading of the tubes.
 
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