Manley Stingray - Getting the best out of it.

8 really good matching EL84s...I don't know, that's going to be a bitch and I think I would be looking for something merely satisfactory that was made in the last few years and enjoy it that way. :)
 
8 really good matching EL84s...I don't know, that's going to be a bitch and I think I would be looking for something merely satisfactory that was made in the last few years and enjoy it that way. :)

It's very easy to do. Just expensive. Cheap will be harder! :)

Right now it's a combo of EI's and EL84M's.
 
It's very easy to do. Just expensive. Cheap will be harder! :)

Right now it's a combo of EI's and EL84M's.

The EL84Ms/6P14P-EVs are actually quite nice tubes. Finding a couple matched quads of those will be much easier, and much more affordable,than any NOS tubes.

A lot of people say they like the JJ EL84s. I've never tried them in an purely audio amp but have them in my Peavey Classic 50/50 stereo guitar amp, the poor mans Stingray :D They actually sounded very nice to my ears when I ran the 50/50 in stereo fed by my ARC SP3-1A. :yes:

Jim McShane sells matched and burned in quads of them both I believe. :scratch2:
 
For shits and giggles, I might even throw the LE's in to hear what they do. Might be fun. :)
 
Likely not. I do miss that clarity. There does seem to be a little bit of mud introduced, and little loss in some of the dynamics.

Told ya! Sort of. :) That's the sacrifice you make with Mullard tubes. In certain scenarios I like practically nothing better than a good pair of Mullards, but in others, the slight loss of upper-midrange and upper-frequency clarity can be a bit fatiguing. Just a bit. If all my tube gear were suddenlt equipped with NOS Mullard tubes and I could never have anything else, I would be definitely be able to live with that. You already know my apprehensions about Ei tubes...

I'll take this opportunity to remind you of my philosophy when it comes to interconnects, which I know many of my fellow audiophiles don't agree with. The apex is achieved with solid core silver wire. Not silver-plated copper, not stranded silver, and even though some of my own interconnects use a combination of silver and copper, even that is a slight compromise IMO (we know Grover would disagree, and he and I have debated the issue). I've yet to hear an interconnect design utilizing anything but all silver (of my own, or the many from major manufacturers that I've tried) that can match the clarity and resolution of all-silver interconnects.

YMMV. But everything matters, from the purity of the wire, the dielectric, the design, the RCA connectors - even the type of solder IMO (because certain types result in better connections/joints IME). Unfortunately it's not cheap to accomplish, any way you approach it. If you have those all-silver Yamamoto interconnects, from what I've heard, it probably doesn't get much better than that.

Please note I'm not by any means claiming one can't achieve magnificent results with only copper wire. That would obviously be a ridiculous statement. Indeed the differences are subtle, and many prefer copper for their own reasons.

Triode can sound very punchy and dynamic. Just thinking about how great that Phil Collins cd sounded. Wonder if I will hear much difference now.

To editorialize further :)D), it would have sounded better if it was Peter Gabriel.

In all seriousness, however, if you soon find yourself in music-buying mode, which I suspect you will, I highly recommend this Peter Gabriel album, Peter Gabriel 4: "Security." The second song on side A, "San Jacinto," would be a great way to experience your new amp in all its glory!
 

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Congratulations on the new Manley amp. I've had a stock Stingray for a few years now - I picked it up from AK'r Wajobu through Bartertown - and I've been using it in a bedroom system with a DAC/CDs.

I've been inspired by this thread to swap the amp into my main system this weekend. I'm listening to a John Coltrane LP - Crescent - with the amp in triode mode right now, very, very nice.

Good luck with setting up your amp and enjoy!
 
Told ya! Sort of. :) That's the sacrifice you make with Mullard tubes. In certain scenarios I like practically nothing better than a good pair of Mullards, but in others, the slight loss of upper-midrange and upper-frequency clarity can be a bit fatiguing. Just a bit. If all my tube gear were suddenlt equipped with NOS Mullard tubes and I could never have anything else, I would be definitely be able to live with that. You already know my apprehensions about Ei tubes...

You misunderstand, Dave. The Mullards made EVERYTHING better. It didn't change the sound of the amp, but rather made it all better. Even clearer, if that's imaginable. These are not the stereotypical Mullards!

I'll take this opportunity to remind you of my philosophy when it comes to interconnects, which I know many of my fellow audiophiles don't agree with. The apex is achieved with solid core silver wire. Not silver-plated copper, not stranded silver, and even though some of my own interconnects use a combination of silver and copper, even that is a slight compromise IMO (we know Grover would disagree, and he and I have debated the issue). I've yet to hear an interconnect design utilizing anything but all silver (of my own, or the many from major manufacturers that I've tried) that can match the clarity and resolution of all-silver interconnects.

YMMV. But everything matters, from the purity of the wire, the dielectric, the design, the RCA connectors - even the type of solder IMO (because certain types result in better connections/joints IME). Unfortunately it's not cheap to accomplish, any way you approach it. If you have those all-silver Yamamoto interconnects, from what I've heard, it probably doesn't get much better than that.

Please note I'm not by any means claiming one can't achieve magnificent results with only copper wire. That would obviously be a ridiculous statement. Indeed the differences are subtle, and many prefer copper for their own reasons.

Rick made up a bunch of real nice silver interconnects of good quality. Hopefully he will chime in with what he has done. Anyway, I will be swapping those in for a listen soon. I'm very curious to know what those will sound like. Lots of choices too.

To editorialize further :)D), it would have sounded better if it was Peter Gabriel.

In all seriousness, however, if you soon find yourself in music-buying mode, which I suspect you will, I highly recommend this Peter Gabriel album, Peter Gabriel 4: "Security." The second song on side A, "San Jacinto," would be a great way to experience your new amp in all its glory!

Well. that's just silly. :)

But I will dig up that Peter Gabriel album. I still enjoy second rate Genesis too. ;)
 
Congratulations on the new Manley amp. I've had a stock Stingray for a few years now - I picked it up from AK'r Wajobu through Bartertown - and I've been using it in a bedroom system with a DAC/CDs.

I've been inspired by this thread to swap the amp into my main system this weekend. I'm listening to a John Coltrane LP - Crescent - with the amp in triode mode right now, very, very nice.

Good luck with setting up your amp and enjoy!

I do recall being green with envy when Walker sold that to you. I also couldn't believe he was selling it! What more could you want out of an amp?
 
A few thoughts on the Stingray sound:

This is NOT your fathers, or grandfathers, tube amp. If you are looking for lots of warm lush tube sound, this ain't it. I'd even say it has been voiced for a little extra upper mid energy. So if your speakers are on the thin sounding side, this likely will not make a great combo, unless that is the sound you like. A warmish, lush'ish speaker, with some good low end energy would be ideal. What it does offer is a lot of incredible crystal clarity and realism. Not in a solid state way either. It is a really nice combo and a great sounding amp. Just not the ticket if you are looking for a warm and mushy EL34 type of sound.
 
Upper midrange is where many folks experience listening fatigue. It is where I have always heard Manley has the extra energy and one reason why it wouldn't be for me. I'm extra sensitive to fatigue from that part of the frequency band. It's really too bad because there are a number of products that folks really love that I can't get on with because of it. Epos speakers for example.
 
Upper midrange is where many folks experience listening fatigue. It is where I have always heard Manley has the extra energy and one reason why it wouldn't be for me. I'm extra sensitive to fatigue from that part of the frequency band. It's really too bad because there are a number of products that folks really love that I can't get on with because of it. Epos speakers for example.

It isn't that bad, Art. Just different from what a lot of folks, especially around here, would expect a tube amp to sound like. It just means it matches better with a lusher, warmer speaker. Like anything, it's all about system matching and symmetry.
 
It isn't that bad, Art. Just different from what a lot of folks, especially around here, would expect a tube amp to sound like. It just means it matches better with a lusher, warmer speaker. Like anything, it's all about system matching and symmetry.

Oh no, I didn't figure it was bad. It just happens that some outstanding products live in a part of the frequency band that I can't do. My flaw, not the equipments.
 
Oh no, I didn't figure it was bad. It just happens that some outstanding products live in a part of the frequency band that I can't do. My flaw, not the equipments.

Yup. And I'm just trying to give people who might be reading an idea if what they work well with. The amp is on the bright side of neutral, so a speaker a little warm would balance out nicely. And warmish sounding sources!
 
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This nails it. From Stereophiles review of the Stingray:

The Stingray had little in the way of upper-bass bloom or plumpness. Its bass was still much faster and more forward than the CAV-50's, if not quite as fat and immediate as the Tigris's. Still, the speed and accuracy with which it portrayed bass were quite musical, the midrange was exceptionally clear, open, and articulate, the presence region had real bite, and the high end was detailed and brassy. I would not recommend using the Stingray with exceptionally bright or analytical speakers, as the sonic aftermath could be likened to the penumbra's effect on the eyes during a solar eclipse.

Conclusions
The Manley Laboratories Stingray is a carefully thought-out, lovingly designed integrated amp with a big, open soundstage, a shimmering, crystalline top end, a clear, richly detailed midrange, and a lean, focused, articulate bass response with such superb speed and pacing that it more than compensates for its lack of extreme low-end heft.

Which is not to say that the Stingray doesn't have beaucoup bass. With small, warm, efficient bookshelf speakers, the Stingray's sound was rich, vibrant, and alive, with plenty of pep, detail, character, and punch. It was shocking how rich and musical the Stingray sounded with the humble little PSB Alpha minimonitors and the warm, sweet Soliloquy 5s.

Which is not to say that it lacked the guts to drive big full-range speakers...provided they have the requisite sensitivity. At HI-FI '99 in Chicago, I heard the Stingray drive the big Tannoy Churchills to purr-fection, while with my full-range Celestion A3s—in tandem with the warm, airy, triodelike midrange character and plump, autumnal upper-bass emphasis of the Monster Cable Sigma Retros—I was able to get as vivid, balanced, and involving a sound in my listening room as I've ever experienced.

All in all, the Stingray is cool, sexy, and musical. But mostly, it's fun.
 
That's pretty much exactly what I heard when I had it hooked up to my Cornscala's as well, little bright for me. With a warmer set of speakers ( Cornscalas are NOT warm and fuzzy ) I would think it would be a lovely combo!!!!
 
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