Manual, Full auto, or just auto return your preference.

Like others here, I have, like, and use all of the above.

Lately I've been using my Pioneer PL-L800 full auto, but mostly because I just restored it and it's my latest toy.

My biggest issue with manual turntables, is I don't get to listen to records until late at night, and there's a big chance I will doze off on the couch before the last side ends. This is where auto return scores big with me.

For ultimate qualify though I think you can't beat a manual. Then again I don't own a car with an automatic transmission either, although I wish I did each time I get stuck in heavy traffic.
 
I also have all three. Sony PS-LX510 for full auto, Realistic Lab 300 for semi auto, and Project Debut Carbon for manual. I generally prefer the Pro-Ject, but the Sony is good for times when I am feeling lazy and want to just press a button to have it start. The semi-auto is in a different system so that is used if I ever want to listen to vinyl in the living room (generally though I prefer my bedroom as that system is a bit better).
 
Personally I like both fully automatic (for superior comfort) and the auto-stop & -lift only (no -return) sort of semi-automatic (for being a good compromise between simplicity and comfort). So I'm practically torn between usage-lazybag and repair/adjusment-lazybag. ;)

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini


(edit: typo extermination... *sigh*)
 
Last edited:
I used to have a manual turntable, a Kenwood KD-1033 but always found it a hassle to have to get up and manually shut off the turntable.

I’m fine with semi-automatic, but I prefer full auto, especially if it’s a changer.

With my Dual 1209, I just set a stack of records, hit the start lever, and sit back and relax.

You get to spend more time listening to your music than having to get up each time
 
I have both a manual and an automatic, and I like both TTs equally. To be honest, I prefer automatics but I also like well made TTs, in which many examples are manual. What I don't like about my particular auto, Dual CS 1246, is that it isn't easy to use it as a manual. If I move the arm towards the record it will automatically start the TT and activate the auto function. What I do like about it is that its easier to operate; Just a turn of a lever and the TT does the rest.

My manual Garrard (BTW there are (were) not many manual Garrards outside of the elite 301 and 401) I like the freedom of selecting any track that I like, and also the feature of this particular TT (DD75), which has an auto stop and auto lift function. What I don't like about it is that sometimes I feel like using it like an automatic, and of course that isn't possible if its a true manual.

That is probably why I insisted on having both types, a manual and an automatic TT.
 
My infatuation with manual turntables ended well before CD's were even a gleam in the milkman's eye.

I used to think a "serious turntable" had to be manual and true enough, if I was in the room with the stereo listening to music, alone or with friends, I had no problem with getting out of the chair to deal with the turntable and engaging in the ritual. But my stereo was on nearly all the time so playing records was de rigure although being front and center between the speakers did no occur 100% of the time. It was a relief when I finally got a semi-auto. If I wound up leaving the room for whatever reason, at least the needle wasn't going to linger ad infinitum at the end of a lead out groove. I've posted this before but what swayed me away from manuals in a big way was having girlfriends over. It was damn annoying when the LP side ended followed by that perpetual groove noise. It was a mood breaker.

I'm lazier now and went back to the egg so to speak and use full autos. Some of which some, dare I say, are changers.

I got to live with a manual again briefly last year thinking it might be quaint, needing to lift the tonearm at end of each play. It only stayed in service for about a week before I shelved it and eventually included it with others to barter for a Japanese direct drive full auto.

There is no question that when you pass a certain price point and continue on to the extreme high end, it is the domain of full manuals. Addressing every conceivable aspect which could adversely affect the reproductive quality of a record playing apparatus . I witness such things in action from time to time but since they are so far beyond my means, I never bother asking the costs. Maybe I'm a stereophile not an audiophile so therefore unsophisticated but in all honesty, I've never been bowled over by mega-bucks turntables. Sometimes the arms seem so delicate they almost look like they should be fully automatic as the potential for damage seems high with less than perfect user interface.

So not having gained an appreciation for such things, decent is good and convenience wins out every time.

FWIW, and not in any particular order, the tables I am currently enjoying are Dual 1009F, Garrard Zero 100, Pioneer PL-630 and a Dual 701.

Really enjoy my DD Dual 622 which is fully automatic. You can put me in the "skeptic" group re high end belt drive tables.
 
So the question is, does increased automation always come at a the expense of performance? I know audiophile orthodoxy would say yes, but I am skeptical. Here again, a wonderful opportunity for some blinded trials where a fully automatic table that measures well in rumble, w&f, and speed accuracy is compared to a fully manual table of equal measured performance. My hypothesis at the outset of this test? I would fully expect the auto table to be a great deal more expensive but I would not necessarily expect it to audibly perform worse.
That's a question I think one's ears could only answer and would have to be done with a side by side comparison manual an semi auto or full auto turntable close in specs using the same cartridges. It would be a neat to do. Maybe someone already did.
 
I have all three:
Manual: AT-LP120, Sony PS-4750,
Semi-Auto: Kenwood KD-3070
Full-Auto: Pioneer PL-530, Technics SL-QD33

My preference is semi-auto (auto return). I don't have to worry about falling asleep while listening and like noisefreq in post #35, can take time and care in using a carbon fiber brush before needle drop.

The nice thing about the Pioneer PL-530 is that you have the option of setting it to "Manual", where the tonearm does not automatically advance to the lead-in but it still does auto-return at end of play, so in 'manual' mode it is essentially a semi-auto.
View attachment 1176790

There may be some other full-auto decks that can be set to auto-return only.

The down side of some mechanical auto-return mechanisms is they can be a little noisy on an LP where the last track extends very close to the label.
On some LP's you might hear a thump-thump-thump while music is playing toward the end of the last track. The PL-530 and Kenwood KD-3070 both exhibit this.
I have the pioneer PL 514 and a Scott PS 47 A semi autos I have not Hurd any thumping.
 
I have the pioneer PL 514 and a Scott PS 47 A semi autos I have not Hurd any thumping.

I tried to choose my wording carefully, I did say 'some' auto-return mechanisms can be (thump-thump-thump) noisy.
I had a Pioneer PL-518 (direct drive similar version to the PL-514) that did not thump either.

Both my PL-530 and KD-3070 make use of a pin that protrudes from the bottom of the platter near the inner diameter. As the tone arm gets towards the end of play it is pushing a plastic arm (under the platter) ever closer towards that pin that is rotating with the platter. If music is still playing, the grooves are close enough together that the plastic arm is not pushed beyond the arc of the pin before the next revolution of the pin. But when the stylus reaches the run-out grooves which are spaced further apart the stylus tracks quickly towards the spindle driving that plastic arm beyond the arc of the pin, then the pin pushes the plastic arm against another mechanism that lifts the tonearm and brings it back to the arm rest along with engaging a cut switch that stops the motor.

While music is still playing near the end, that plastic arm being hit by that pin protruding from the bottom of the platter makes a thump with each revolution. This thumping is mostly noticed on LP's that have a narrow run-out area, ie where the last track's grooves run very close to the label.

Here's a photo of the plastic arm under the platter of Kenwood KD-3070:
AutoreturnMech_zps00d4a76e.JPG

And the arm under the platter of the PL-530
PL530ReturnDetectArm.JPG
And the pin that protrudes from the underside of the platter:
PL530PlatterPin.JPG

That's why I suggested getting ahold of the service manual and reading about the auto-return mechanism and adjustments.
The PL-514, 518 have a different mechanism. See pg. 6 of the PL-514 service manual.
 
Last edited:
I tried to choose my wording carefully, I did say 'some' auto-return mechanisms can be (thump-thump-thump) noisy.
I had a Pioneer PL-518 (direct drive similar version to the PL-514) that did not thump either.

Both my PL-530 and KD-3070 make use of a pin that protrudes from the bottom of the platter near the inner diameter. As the tone arm gets towards the end of play it is pushing a plastic arm (under the platter) ever closer towards that pin that is rotating with the platter. If music is still playing, the grooves are close enough together that the plastic arm is not pushed beyond the arc of the pin before the next revolution of the pin. But when the stylus reaches the run-out grooves which are spaced further apart the stylus tracks quickly towards the spindle driving that plastic arm beyond the arc of the pin, then the pin pushes the plastic arm against another mechanism that lifts the tonearm and brings it back to the arm rest along with engaging a cut switch that stops the motor.

While music is still playing near the end, that plastic arm being hit by that pin protruding from the bottom of the platter makes a thump with each revolution. This thumping is mostly noticed on LP's that have a narrow run-out area, ie where the last track's grooves run very close to the label.

Here's a photo of the plastic arm under the platter of Kenwood KD-3070:
View attachment 1177893

And the arm under the platter of the PL-530
View attachment 1177899
And the pin that protrudes from the underside of the platter:
View attachment 1177900

That's why I suggested getting ahold of the service manual and reading about the auto-return mechanism and adjustments.
The PL-514, 518 have a different mechanism. See pg. 6 of the PL-514 service manual.
That's good to know, I've taken a motorcycle apart except for the motor and put it back together, but if my turntable breaks it go's to the vintage stereo repair shop IL replace the belt. Thanks
 
I've owned numerous examples of each type over the years. Here's what I can think of off-hand:

Automatic: B&O Beogram 3000, B&O Beogram 4002 (LT), B&O Beogram 1700, B&O Beogram 8000 (LT), B&O Beogram 1800, B&O Beogram RX, B&O Beogram RX2, B&O Beogram TX2 (LT), Crosley "Stack-O-Matic" CR89 "Traveler" (changer), Denon DP-33F, Dual 1019 (changer), Dual 1218 (changer), Dual 1219 (changer), Dual 1229 (changer), Elac Miracord 40H (changer), Garrard Zero 100 (changer), Garrard 730m (changer), Perpetuum-Ebner PE2020 (changer), Perpetuum-Ebner PE3060 (changer), Pioneer PL-530, Pioneer PL-88FS, RCA "Dimensia" MTT-230 (LT), Sears "ProFormance" 564-97990350 (LT), Sharp RP-117 (LT), Technics SL-1300, Technics SL-1301, Technics SL-10 (LT), Technics SL-5 (LT), Technics SL-B300, Yamaha P-320

Semi-Automatic: Gemini XL-100, Onkyo CP-1015A, Philips GA-312, Philips GA-437, Pioneer PL-518, Technics SL-B2, Technics SL-B205, Technics SL-BD21

Manual: AR XB, AR XB 77, AR ES-1, Audio-Technica AT770 "Mister Disc", Empire 598 II, Pioneer PL-12D, Pro-Ject 1.2, Rabco ST-4 (LT), Technics SL-1200, Technics SL-1500, Yamaha YP-D3

As you can see, there's a bit of a discrepancy there. :rolleyes: All of these were bought used, so I didn't have too much of a choice in what I found, but I think it does say something for the preferences of the people who bought them originally. The category placement of some of these turntables is open to interpretation, due to the presence of auto-lifters (either built-in or external). I will say that I tend to prefer automatic turntables, due to being somewhat lazy, but do not actively shun either semi-automatic or manual TTs.
-Adam
 
Last edited:
My Pioneer Pl-520 is fully automatic, but I never use it in that mode. Maybe I'm strange, but there are few albums that have more than one song on them that I care to listen to, and those usually aren't the first track on the LP. I have dozens and dozens of albums I have never listened to all the way through in 45 years of owning them. It only takes me a few seconds of listening to form my opinion of whether or not the song is crap. However, when I do listen to something like Tubular Bells, it's nice to just be able to sit there and bask in the afterglow of the music once its done and let the auto-return do its thing.
 
I've owned numerous examples of each type over the years. Here's what I can think of off-hand:

Automatic: B&O Beogram 3000, B&O Beogram 4002 (LT), B&O Beogram 1700, B&O Beogram 8000 (LT), B&O Beogram 1800, B&O Beogram RX, B&O Beogram RX2, B&O Beogram TX2 (LT), Crosley "Stack-O-Matic" CR89 "Traveler" (changer), Denon DP-33F, Dual 1019 (changer), Dual 1218 (changer), Dual 1219 (changer), Dual 1229 (changer), Elac Miracord 40H (changer), Garrard Zero 100 (changer), Garrard 730m (changer), Perpetuum-Ebner PE2020 (changer), Perpetuum-Ebner PE3060 (changer), Pioneer PL-530, Pioneer PL-88FS, RCA "Dimensia" MTT-230 (LT), Sears "ProFormance" 564-97990350 (LT), Technics SL-1300, Technics SL-1301, Technics SL-10 (LT), Technics SL-5 (LT), Technics SL-B300, Yamaha P-320

Semi-Automatic: Gemini XL-100, Onkyo CP-1015A, Philips GA-312, Philips GA-437, Pioneer PL-518, Technics SL-B2, Technics SL-B205, Technics SL-BD21

Manual: AR XB, AR XB 77, AR ES-1, Audio-Technica AT770 "Mister Disc", Empire 598 II, Pioneer PL-12D, Pro-Ject 1.2, Rabco ST-4 (LT), Technics SL-1200, Technics SL-1500, Yamaha YP-D3

As you can see, there's a bit of a discrepancy there. :rolleyes: All of these were bought used, so I didn't have too much of a choice in what I found, but I think it does say something for the preferences of the people who bought them originally. The category placement of some of these turntables is open to interpretation, due to the presence of auto-lifters (either built-in or external). I will say that I tend to prefer automatic turntables, due to being somewhat lazy, but do not actively shun either semi-automatic or manual TTs.
-Adam

You're definitely the master of turntables! I didn't see the sharp "plays both sides" model listed, I remember you had one of those.
 
I LOVE the Dual 1219 (and the 1009) for automatic stacking of 45's.
It's quiet and i'ts mechanism is smooth as silk. It sounds fabulous.

For LP's, I would rather not stack, and can live with a manual for that, as I use LP's for more critical listening.
 
You're definitely the master of turntables! I didn't see the sharp "plays both sides" model listed, I remember you had one of those.
Fixed! Almost forgot about that one. Wish I still had it, even though it probably wouldn't have been a great performer (and likely a nightmare to keep working; still not sure whether or not the repair guy I took it to ever actually managed to fix it). Closest thing I have now is probably the Pioneer PL-88FS, even if it's neither a linear tracker nor a both-side player. As for being a 'master of turntables', I'm not sure I'd say that; I'm just a guy who is really, really into vinyl.......... :whip::crazy::rolleyes:
-Adam
Get yer mind outta the gutter..........
 
Back
Top Bottom