Marantz 18 vs marantz 19 Receiver HELP PLZ!!

Paul89

Member
Hey guys,

I've read a ton of your stuff and you guys are awesome. First post here! Looking for the vets of audiokarma and Marantz expert like Brian. Echowars. The military gentlemen I cannot recall his name and mike zaccarro ex marantz tech or any other marantz techs and SME's.

I'm a Marantz fan and I'm looking to buy either an 18 or a 19. I've read all over this site but still cannot find conclusive data that indicates which is the best, more importantly most sought after and most desirable. I've read the saul marantz history but they only spoke about the 18 and not the 19. What I'd like to know is of saul . Sid and dick had they're say in the 19. I know the 18 is made in Woodside NY and 19 in California. What are the differences between the model 19 that indicates custom calibrated vs fifty rms fifty? One earlier production than the other?

Seems to me like all the threads I come by are super old threads from like 2005-2012. As a newbie to the karma, I'm looking for new posts fresh ones.

Side question while I'm at it:

I have a Marantz 1200 with original wood case. It's made in USA serial number 3450. I do not see much info about it even though is made in USA just like the 18 and 19. How come? Am I missing something? What's a 1200 worth? Hows the build quality? Is it desirable? It seems rare.

Please do give all your knowledge as this is a major purschase for me as a young lad. All your help is appreciated.

Sorry for all the questions. Unfortunately, I didnt grow up with these awesome marantz but my father did.

Cheers! Marantz for life!
 
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I have owned a restored Model 18 and currently have a Model 19. Both are fantastic - you can't go wrong with either. The 19 will cost more money but might hold its value a bit better. If you get an 18, be very careful about the dial glass. The lettering is quite fragile and can come off even with a dry cloth. With either receiver you want to be sure the scope tube works because replacements are rare and expensive (approximately $300 or more). Both have a nice tuner section. I would certainly recommend a restored one or having it restored by one of the experts here on AK. These are old enough that the capacitors are past their normal lifespan. Enjoy your new receiver.
 
cannot find conclusive data that indicates which is the best,

You won't. They are both great. Some will like one more than the other. They are both looked highly upon. I own both if perfect condition and I can't decide. Most days I think the 19 is the one and then I hook up the 18 and it has something special about it also.

What are the differences between the model 19 that indicates custom calibrated vs fifty rms fifty? One earlier production than the other?

Most 19's were made in Japan. The first ones were made in the USA. The first ones said 'fifty rms fifty', later production said 'custom calibrated' where the dial pointer would line up exactly on the analog dial for FM tuning. I would guess that was also when they were starting to be made in Japan. Price also jumped from 1000 to 1200.
 
I owned a 18 for several years. Great sounding. Not the last word on detail like the later 22xx units but it did have a different sound. I would describe it as more tube like. It had more of a stronger "presence". Somewhat softer top end with a very "full" sounding mid and lower end. Paired with the right speakers it was an amazing, yet different sounding receiver. The sound tends to have a tad bit of a grainy sound. I think that MAY be due to the germanium transistors??????

As for difference between the 18 and 19. I only had a 19 for a very short time and I couldn't test them side by side. Me - I liked the 18 a bit more. But that was just me and again these were NOT restored units!!!!

Several caveats: ALL of those units are in need of restoration at this point. The dial tube is virtually unobtainable. However there is a replacement replica for the fragile silk screen dial glass over at RadioDaze.
 
The first ones were made in the USA. The first ones said 'fifty rms fifty', later production said 'custom calibrated' where the dial pointer would line up exactly on the analog dial for FM tuning.

i didnt know that :thumbsup: when i get home i will need to look and see which one i have.
 
i have both 18 and 19. got them both in original condition then had them both restored. i liked the 18 better before and then loved it even more after, it was one of my few WOW moments. it seems to sound a bit warmer to me than the 19 and thats what i seem to be drawn to. the 19 sells for a lot more then the 18 so investment wise the 19 might be better and more in demand and has a big following that thinks its Marantz's best receiver.
 
This is just awesome guys. The info has helped me quite a bit. Gotta love Marantz gear. It's too bad how superscope pushed Saul's ideas out to finally remove him from his own company. I mean who does that? Had they not realized how saul sid and dick were the Big 3?! Anyways marantz lives forever with these awesome receivers.

Cheers!
 
This is just awesome guys. The info has helped me quite a bit. Gotta love Marantz gear. It's too bad how superscope pushed Saul's ideas out to finally remove him from his own company. I mean who does that? Had they not realized how saul sid and dick were the Big 3?! Anyways marantz lives forever with these awesome receivers.

Cheers!

A lot of it was Saul's ideas and quality was McIntosh prices. Marantz was going cheaper on outsourcing to Japanese build (still excellent, and not dissing this). And Saul had a few designs which were very costly, the Model 10 and 10B FM tuners cost Saul the company. The Marantz Company lost money on every one sold. The SLT 12 and SLT-12U had many warranty related service problems which also were very costly to the company. And also lost money. Saul still had the highest end possible mindset, no compromise build and engineering. So understand some history. Marantz at this time was in transition from Saul's only the finest possible quality, and engineering, cost is no object mindset, to expanding to the broader variety of price points ranging from lower middle class to some high end. 1968 was the real beginning of Marantz/SuperScope becoming what they were through 1980 in products and in price points covered. The Marantz Model 26, was that first receiver that was all SuperScope/Standard Radio (later Marantz Japan)
 
A lot of it was Saul's ideas and quality was McIntosh prices. Marantz was going cheaper on outsourcing to Japanese build (still excellent, and not dissing this). And Saul had a few designs which were very costly, the Model 10 and 10B FM tuners cost Saul the company. The Marantz Company lost money on every one sold. The SLT 12 and SLT-12U had many warranty related service problems which also were very costly to the company. And also lost money. Saul still had the highest end possible mindset, no compromise build and engineering. So understand some history. Marantz at this time was in transition from Saul's only the finest possible quality, and engineering, cost is no object mindset, to expanding to the broader variety of price points ranging from lower middle class to some high end. 1968 was the real beginning of Marantz/SuperScope becoming what they were through 1980 in products and in price points covered. The Marantz Model 26, was that first receiver that was all SuperScope/Standard Radio (later Marantz Japan)

So according to your post. Is the 19 a superscope /standard radio 100% products since its production started in 1970? Or has the 19 been designed by the Big 3 and ended up being produced by superscope In California? As we all know the big 3 had their fingerprints somewhere with the 18. I just want to know if the 19 also had that as well. Being hand made and hand built?
 
A very good "fake" of an 18 (though, with tuning meters instead of a 'scope) is: the scarcely-imported Thorens 1250 receiver built in Belgium.
It almost seemed like they got the surplus faceplates and chassies from the same supplier once Superscope had discontinued the 18(?).
 
The Model 18 is the only receiver designed by Saul Marantz, Sid Smith and Dick Sequarra.
The Model 19 is a copy of the Model 18, designed by Superscope,
with a better technical and aesthetic design but the components are significantly less good qualities.

Personally I prefer Model 18, but I would not advise anyone
who have no knowledge of electricity or who would not "put their hands in the sludge".
Starting with the transformer, oscilloscope, the difficulties to replace certain transistors
du to a wired design of the amplification part...
 
So according to your post. Is the 19 a superscope /standard radio 100% products since its production started in 1970? Or has the 19 been designed by the Big 3 and ended up being produced by superscope In California? As we all know the big 3 had their fingerprints somewhere with the 18. I just want to know if the 19 also had that as well. Being hand made and hand built?

It was in design prior to this change. And is the last link from old Marantz Company/Superscope to new Marantz . Most Model 19 receivers were Japanese built save for the very first production built in Sun Valley, California. Most Model 19 were built in Japan, all Model 19 receivers used USA parts. It is inspired from big 3 design, had some revisions done from the 18, and more power. The 18 really is the last big 3 designed, last true Marantz in the old Saul Marantz/Sidney Smith/Dick Sequerra tradition.
 
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My understanding is the 19 receivers with champagne front panels were built in the USA. Silver front panels were built in Japan.
 
I have restored and own several copies of both the 18 and 19. There are a few statements that need to be better clarified.

" The Model 19 is a copy of the Model 18, designed by Superscope,
with a better technical and aesthetic design but the components are significantly less good qualities."

This is simply untrue.

The components used in the 19 were at least equal to or better than the 18. There is nothing on the 19 that is "significantly less" in terms of quality.

Beyond the cosmetics the biggest pains of the 18 were addressed. Specifically the amp section and power supply were switched from point to point wiring to printed circuit boards. The front end of the 19 was improved and used the same parts as the model 20B tuner. It also looks like significant attention was paid to alignment of the receiver.

Trying to repair an 18's power supply or amp section can be a challenge simply because it's not easy to follow the schematic through the point to point sections of the layout.

The schematic and documentation is better on the 19. I would go as far as saying that the 19 was the pinnacle of Marantz documentation as every adjustment to the tuning section was covered in great detail. Later Marantz receivers and even tuners used a generic procedure for alignment that was basically open to interpretation.

While the 19 was introduced during the beginning of the Supescope period it's design was a direct descendent of the 18 and most probably included some of the designers of the 18. The tuner is basically the model 20B, with boards and sections that are literally interchangeable.

As an example:

This is the 18.. The power supply is spread out all over the place, top and bottom and the main amp is point to point wiring.

21817929809_bb69612201_b.jpg



31027040851_7ef75a8f56_b.jpg


This is the 19..
The layout is much better and most everything is on a board.

a_Marantz_19_Inside.jpg

a_Marantz_19_Inside_Bottom.jpg


All that being said the 18 is still a great receiver, one of the best ever. The 19 is just better, it was the last of the Marantz "cost no object" designs...

The models that came after were clearly designed by others including the superscope accountant. The 19 looks like nothing that came after it.
 
The layout is much better on a Model 19

This is exactly what I mind when I said "with a better technical and aesthetic design",
and this is why I would not advise a Model 18 to anyone
who have no knowledge of electricity or who would not "put their hands in the sludge".

This is simply untrue.
The components used in the 19 were at least equal to or better than the 18.
There is nothing on the 19 that is "significantly less" in terms of quality.

Since Model 1 & 2, marantz has always used Spragues electrolitic capacitors in these devices... up to Model 18.
Spragues capacitors were the best of their time, and even now they are among the most expensive.
Model 19 use Mallory and blue Holland electrolitic capacitors.
Also the Model 18 use Siemens or Evox film capacitors, the Model 19 use Philips film capacitors.


...it was the last of the Marantz "cost no object" designs...
For example, for the hight voltage oscilloscope, the Model 18 use a single 630V/10uF Spragues electrolitic
capacitor (a least 35$ now), the Model 19 use two 350V/10uF in serie, 10$ max.

As Saul Marantz say in a 1993 interview about Superscope president Joe Tushinsky:
"Superscope wanted still cheaper Model, then cheaper Model"...
 
I have restored and own several copies of both the 18 and 19. There are a few statements that need to be better clarified.

" The Model 19 is a copy of the Model 18, designed by Superscope,
with a better technical and aesthetic design but the components are significantly less good qualities."

This is simply untrue.

The components used in the 19 were at least equal to or better than the 18. There is nothing on the 19 that is "significantly less" in terms of quality.

Beyond the cosmetics the biggest pains of the 18 were addressed. Specifically the amp section and power supply were switched from point to point wiring to printed circuit boards. The front end of the 19 was improved and used the same parts as the model 20B tuner. It also looks like significant attention was paid to alignment of the receiver.

Trying to repair an 18's power supply or amp section can be a challenge simply because it's not easy to follow the schematic through the point to point sections of the layout.

The schematic and documentation is better on the 19. I would go as far as saying that the 19 was the pinnacle of Marantz documentation as every adjustment to the tuning section was covered in great detail. Later Marantz receivers and even tuners used a generic procedure for alignment that was basically open to interpretation.

While the 19 was introduced during the beginning of the Supescope period it's design was a direct descendent of the 18 and most probably included some of the designers of the 18. The tuner is basically the model 20B, with boards and sections that are literally interchangeable.

As an example:

This is the 18.. The power supply is spread out all over the place, top and bottom and the main amp is point to point wiring.

21817929809_bb69612201_b.jpg



31027040851_7ef75a8f56_b.jpg


This is the 19..
The layout is much better and most everything is on a board.

a_Marantz_19_Inside.jpg

a_Marantz_19_Inside_Bottom.jpg


All that being said the 18 is still a great receiver, one of the best ever. The 19 is just better, it was the last of the Marantz "cost no object" designs...

The models that came after were clearly designed by others including the superscope accountant. The 19 looks like nothing that came after it.

The tuner section on the Model 19 is a major improvement over the Model 18. Had fewer issues. And the optocouplers on the Model 18 were known issues.
 
It's debatable whether there is a difference in quality between the caps of Sprague, Mallory, Siemens, Evox or Philips. To be honest the only difference I have heard was replacing the old Sprague and Malory filter caps on both receivers.

As for the scope the two 350V caps give a combined 700V (spread between the two caps) vs the 630V in the 18. The combined caps are actually smaller allowing them to be placed on the power supply PCB. I have not heard of a transformer HV failing on the 19, this may be why. The 18 on the other hand is known to have a problem with the HV section of the transformer, quite possibly due to failure of the HV cap. So you could say that it was an improvement, even if it costs a bit less.

To be clear the 18 is no slouch... It's still probably my favorite. It's the only one that is on permanent rotation in my home. However the 19 is better IMHO.

Also.. The 18 is the best value.... You can get them for ~1/2 to 1/4 the cost of a 19.
 
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