Marantz "warm", "Colored" sound not "True" "Clear" sound? What?

[AudioPuppet]

Whats all this fuss about the 2275 not sounding good , SAY WHATTT !!!! BLASPHEMY I SAY !! :yes: .. I have been away for awhile but when someone , anyone disses a Marantz 2275 , a signal illuminates the sky akin to Batman's logo ( except its a giant M ) .. This sends me scurrying to defend that which we hold sacred , " A Properly Restored Marantz "

Seriously , the 2275 is warm , lush , & powerful beyond its rated output .. It has the ability to make even the poorest recorded material sound excellent some how , and , its stupid sexy to behold .. If your 2275 doesn't sound like that I can only suggest the restoration is sub par

Chinese caps anyone ?? ... to the Bat , umm , Marantz Cave

 

[bktheking]

My tube shit sounds better than all my marantz gear, but hey, ss is good too. I didn't know the difference until I started listening to different models- take my Optonica for example. The second I fired it up in the garage I heard an obvious shrillness that wasnt there prior. I want my marantz back in the garage, so the 4230 was rebuilt. The sansui vs marantz vs x y and z could go on forever just like ford Chevy dodge. But let's face it, there are many other factors at play-looks,space,resale, ease of repair.

 

[patfont]

My tube shit sounds better than all my marantz gear, but hey, ss is good too. I didn't know the difference until I started listening to different models- take my Optonica for example. The second I fired it up in the garage I heard an obvious shrillness that wasnt there prior. I want my marantz back in the garage, so the 4230 was rebuilt. The sansui vs marantz vs x y and z could go on forever just like ford Chevy dodge. But let's face it, there are many other factors at play-looks,space,resale, ease of repair.

I hear you on this, but-my 2220B is overall better sounding then my ST-70/Pas3. The tube set up has a little bit more of and open window in the mids and a little more air around the instruments but not by far. The 2220B trounces it in the low end and highs, oh well.

 

[jwrauch]

I can't figure out what some of you are talking about. My recapped 2230 today sounds as good to me(granted my ears are 64 yrs) as my 1st 2230 did back in the 80s. A local HiFi shop did an amp clinic(sponsored by Mackintosh) back then and its response was ruler flat from 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz at 1/2 power and flat from 30hz and up at full power.Right at spec. how can you call that colored sound ? JOHN

 

[PB_Audio]

I can't figure out what some of you are talking about. My recapped 2230 today sounds as good to me(granted my ears are 64 yrs) as my 1st 2230 did back in the 80s. A local HiFi shop did an amp clinic(sponsored by Mackintosh) back then and its response was ruler flat from 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz at 1/2 power and flat from 30hz and up at full power.Right at spec. how can you call that colored sound ? JOHN

A fully refurbished 2230, or virtually any receiver or amp for that matter, may very well sound as good or even better than it did as new.
But why not? ... after all, today's best Audio Grade caps should easily outperform the original caps from 35 to 40 years ago.
The ways an amp may 'color' the sound goes beyond just a 'flat' frequency response. Many factors may add 'coloration'.

 

[jwrauch]

Inncluding personal prefferences and individual differences in hearing. JOHN

 

[Stacker45]

Some of this is logically a bit hard to follow, because there are so many other things to consider.

As another member here (I forget who) has, repeatedly, patiently, and correctly pointed out, what is the condition of the equipment, some possibly FORTY-plus years old, you are using? And this is true for EVERY link in the chain from the source; tuner, phono, tape deck, CD player, computer (of whatever type), through the amplification process to the speakers, and also may include the cables and connections. Lord knows there are plenty of opinions about speakers! You also must consider the condition of and the "quality", "accuracy", or what have you of the source media, if there is one. Then, there are the acoustics of the room.

If we could then make it such that we all had perfectly healthy functioning ears, then in the end we are still left with what virtually unlimited combinations of all of the above we each like.

The only comparisons that make any sense is to keep every thing else the same, hopefully all in good shape, and then compare different brands/models of receivers/amps, again hopefully all in good shape to each other. (Note some like different models or "periods", e.g. early 1970's vs. later 1970's of the same brand.) Now, if you change anything, but probably speakers are the main thing, do you still prefer the same receiver/amp?

OR, we can just forget all that, most of which makes a lot of sense no matter what brand you prefer, and say that X brand, model Y is the best . . .

Personally, I think it is kind of cool there was a Greatest Generation guy named Saul Marantz who started a company. Yeah, my receiver was made in Japan, but it seems to have been built pretty well. It has been restored, pretty well I hope, as have my speakers, and sounds good to me with most sources. It sounds better to me than anything I have had up to now, but I know I could put together a system of entirely different brands and it would sound good too.

Marilyn Monroe or Jane Russell? Ginger or Mary Anne? In the end all I am sure of is Jaclyn Smith was the prettiest Charlie's Angel!:yes:

SO TRUE! i just think this old post needed a bump, if only because i believe it's one of smartest, truest, i have ever read.

 

[sony6060]

My 2 Cents

I have (had) a Marantz 2216B. I discribe the sound as musical 'foot tapping' sound. I upograded the power supply caps and it sounded the same. It played into vintage Infinity speakers. My GF would not give it back & she has that Bose radio that some like.

Now, I owned a Sansui G7500 and find that Sansui sounding somewhat flat and uninvolving. I did install new higher capacity power supply capacitors too. It did have this authoritive sound like a monster amplifier wanted to cut loose. I played the G7500 on Klipsch Forte speakers- perhaps a poor match. To get any somewhat musically pleasing sound out of it I needed to use loudness and bring the treble up. The Marantz 2216B wins even if the Sansui G7500 is more clear sounding.

Next, I tried a Sansui 3000A and it was a little closer to the Marantz 2216B sonics vs the Sansui G7500. It has clairity and is musical sounding if a little 'transisto'r sounding. IMO the Sansui 3000A is better sounding than the Sansui G7500 on Klipsch Forte speakers. The Marantz still wins that musical sound if still less clear sounding. I would keep the Marantz 2216B.

Next, I tried a Sony STR-V4 and was floored with the sound. It was musical with that Marantz charm, but more clear sounding. The Sony STR-V4 needs the treble turned all the way up. I think I like it better than the 2216B, but it may depend upon my mood. I likely favor the Sony STR-V4 overall.

Next, I tried a Sony STR-6060FW. This receiver was only used say 200 hours then stored away. This receiver is clear, accurate & realistic sounding with a huge soundstage that far exceeds the speakers. Voices sound like in the room. It is also musical to the hilt. The previous receivers can not approach the STR-6060. I changed the PS & coupling caps to Epcos and the sonics came up another level in performance. The STR-6060FW is better than my SE 6BQ5 Magnavox with mods and produces far better & tighter bass. The Magnavox killed my Dynaco Stereo 35 too. Only my SE 2A3 SET amps have more airy sound than the Sony STR-6060FW, but both amplifiers will fool you with spooky real sounding voices. One more factor is reverb in music is so clear with the better receivers. The reverb decay in the Marantz is not so evident.

Now, I am going to mod a Fisher 400 to outperform the Sony STR-6060FW. I think I will have my hands full on this.

 

[jstang]

At some point you should give a "direct coupled" Marantz a spin.

 

[Gary Francks]

I've tried a few low end Marantz receivers and the best by far was the BOTL 2010.
When it came to me it had a dodgy tuner that gave up the ghost on FM 3 days into ownership.
Removing the wooden case and lifting the lid to investigate revealed exploded electrolytics on the power supply board and a dead transistor in the FM front end amongst other things.
After a full re-cap and fixing the FM problems I thought the sound was very good, coloured yes, but in a pleasant way and entirely un-fatiguing.
With hindsight I could have lived with it easily but prat that I am I let it go.

 

[sony6060]

At some point you should give a "direct coupled" Marantz a spin.

What is the most clear & musical sounding Marantz?

 

[jstang]

Opinions vary.....

How much $ are you looking to spend...? I still enjoy the 2270 if in good condition or refurb correct. Price changes choice, ranging from 2245s up to 2600 and then an 18 or 19. Then lots of separates catch my eye. There are plenty of direct couple units.

Jk

 

[sony6060]

Opinions vary.....

How much $ are you looking to spend...? I still enjoy the 2270 if in good condition or refurb correct. Price changes choice, ranging from 2245s up to 2600 and then an 18 or 19. Then lots of separates catch my eye. There are plenty of direct couple units.

Jk

I am willing to spend $1K.

 

[jstang]

If you refurb yourself, 1k gives you almost all the receivers as your choice... It's more a question power range and starting with something in better shape that needs less work.

The 2245 & 2270 are in my opinion about the best direct coupled Japanese units. The construction is 100% soldered, no slip connections or wire wrap. They used film caps more frequently when possible.

You might even find an 18....

But I am sure others will chime in...

 

[onemug]

What is the most clear & musical sounding Marantz?

Clearest AND most musical? I'd say the Marantz 19.

 

[pioneerhip]

Bringing life to a dead thread. A few comments up someone mentioned they are using their Marantz as a preamp. I am doing the same. Running a 2252B out into 2 pioneer SA-8500 II amplifiers. Does the warm marantz sound come from the phono stage or a combination of phono and amplifier stages. Am I missing some marantz magic by not using the amplifier side of my 2252B?

 

[bonzo4ever!]

Bringing life to a dead thread. A few comments up someone mentioned they are using their Marantz as a preamp. I am doing the same. Running a 2252B out into 2 pioneer SA-8500 II amplifiers. Does the warm marantz sound come from the phono stage or a combination of phono and amplifier stages. Am I missing some marantz magic by not using the amplifier side of my 2252B?

Im running the exact same unit as my primary amp. Using a lil bellari tube amp with a vintage tube,, so Im not gonna say its 100% marantz that sounds so lush,, but i'd safely say it's 95% of what I'm hearing thru my timeframe 500s.. Easy and natural. Doesn't have a lot of speed and fatigues a little but I'm VERY happy .

 

[KutzlerTrans]

There lies a theory that the warmth comes from the pre amp.
I believe it certainly can.
I also believe that certain poweramps can push the high end forward and put the mids in back, hiding them, so to speak.
It is in my opinion that the marantz used good polypropylene films across sections of the bass,mid and treble pots in the design, and the type of film they used was key to the sound.
I made the mistake of removing them and installing cog caps in a 2325 and ruined the warmth.
Reinstalling them brought it back.
I knew something was missing after having lived with the receiver in the shop for a year before i rebuilt the pre amp.
Now after using the same pre amp tied to a restored 300dc, i noticed the 300 pushed the mids back and the bass and treble forward, robbing some of its warmth.
This is my opinion,for now, until the next paradigm shift changes it.

 

[pioneerhip]

I agree with that. I think it may be that the 2252b isn't as warm as the 2220B I own. Another thing may be that I'm really used to my all pioneer setup and this sound is just different than I thought it would be....stupid hobby

 

[FOH Engineer]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If you want your Sansui to sound like a Marantz, throw a blanket over your speakers.

That said, the 2230 is my favorite Marantz.

Rob

I have had a number of both, but I think characterizing Marantz as having a blanket on the speakers is a little extreme. I think all input sources, and all playback formats may have different biases, as do all brand names..but if we are we talking about comparing gear with all controls set flat and a single pair of reference speakers in the same room...with any number of Marantz and Sansui receivers or seperates I would bet that a lot more than brand name would determine tonal bias. Like listening choices, volume levels, cabling and cartridge or outboard component picks..Even allowing for the supposition of Marantz being warm and Sansui not so much..
I think it takes a lot of info to determine a quantifiable difference...personally I think they are both fine sounding vintage brand names with positive and not negative qualities..