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MC275 with LaScala : biwire on different taps possible?

Discussion in 'McIntosh Audio' started by jlopez, Jan 8, 2014.

  1. drknstrmyknight

    drknstrmyknight AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I drank the kool-aid and tried to integrate a number of subs into LaScalas, and I can only describe the effect as smearing the bottom end. In the end I prefer them without any subs. The woofers are Crites which might buy a a few db on the bottom, but I can't say anyone had ever listened to them asked where the bass was.

    Back to the OP! I can't say that I think you need to do anything but connect them to the 8 ohm taps!
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2014

     

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  2. william.keith

    william.keith Super Member

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    Our favorite classic Cadillac is the 1959. Love those fins. Like the Klipsch La Scala, you can't duplicate the original.
     
  3. drknstrmyknight

    drknstrmyknight AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    But wasn't the '59 widely noted for being no fun at all at low speed?

    :p
     
  4. 62caddy

    62caddy Trust but verify Subscriber

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    Amen.

    That's when they're the most fun!
     
  5. drknstrmyknight

    drknstrmyknight AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Only if there is no driver at the wheel!
     
  6. Kartik

    Kartik New Member

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    My wife accepted my K-horns - no questions asked. :banana:

    That said, I was told to keep my music system in my bedroom and not clutter the rest of the house.

    I know this may sound heretical but using the C-50 (and its parametric equalizer) you can pretty much shape the sound to suit your listening space pretty well.

    MC275 + horns - fan-bleeding-tastic. Such an easy sound.
     

     

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  7. TheButler

    TheButler Member

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    77
    So true! -- but a lot of wives, including mine, like the corner placement Klipschorns in a large room. I'd love to get a pair of those. I still remember the first time I heard Beethoven's 9th on them; I felt like I was the conductor of the orchestra!

    Decent bass from them too...
     
  8. jlopez

    jlopez New Member

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    9
    So yesterday was the big day. Finally had a chance to drive some 600km to hear the klipsch palladium 37 , the RF7II, and last but not least the LaScala II.
    Brought my C220+MC275 along with me, as well as some music.
    The Palladiums were a bit of a deception. I expected more from them. I was able to A/B them with the RF7. And boy, that last one - although sharper and edgier and in the medium not so expressive - was so much more live and enjoyable (to my personal taste, and very much to that of my father who accompanied me - he brought Muse with him :smoke:). Even though the Palladium were more easy on the ear, the weaknesses (if you can call it that) of the RF7 were quickly forgotten compared to what the Palladiums had to offer.
    Guess it is the esthetical modern appealing design concept of the Palladiums that just cannot weigh up to the basic concept of the 'big' box of the RF7, when it comes to sound reproduction. It's all about physics in the end. No magic there. Clear winner was the RF7, by a big shot. I think the low/med/high combination that the RF7 delivers, also would be gread in home theater setups - but for music it also really shines and gives a real live feeling. But in the end, a bit to expressive sometimes to my tasting, on some occasions, for some music I brought with me. But damn good nevertheless, and so much cheaper than the Palladium. But yeah, not so good looking, but I couldn't care less there :no:.
    Then drove further to listen to the LaScala. Was nervous all day. I hoped not to be disappointed as much as I had been with the Palladium. First was the appearance: wow. Big. But real cool. Then the sound. In medium and high it was just the perfect balance between RF7 and Palladium. Bit more expressive/forward than the Palladium, but a bit less hard/edgy than the RF7. Really, really :tresbon: The bass... clearly not on the RF7 level. Disappointing? No. There is bass. Just not going as deep, which makes the sound not as 'warm' as with the RF7. But less bass than the Palladium 37? No, didnt sound like it and am not going the look it up on the data sheet.
    Now it is all about taste and flavour. My father was won for the RF7. He was completely blown away by them actually. I hesitated. TheRF7 would have cost half of the LaScala. But by the impression and the feeling I experienced with the music, and most importantly for me: the real sweet medium and high (and really: really the opposite of harsh) I gave a down payment for the LaScala :banana:, even if the bass was a bit lacking (compared to the RF7!). But the punch you experience with every kick of the drums, pick of a snare on the guitar...oh boy. I did not mention that yet...:thmbsp:
    In the end: the LaScala won, I think merely on personal preference (perhaps also because I adore the looks of them, and I can always save €€ for the MEN220 to integrate my sub sometime (dreaming out loud here, think I will have to lay low for a while now:yes:). But for the same, it could have been the RF7 perhaps, they were really good. But never ever I think a go back to something else but horns. They just make music so real and lively. Lovely
    So I hope this is usefull for some of you out there. If you are interested: go listen to them. They are real good value (RF7 and LaScala). But I can understand completely some may find the LaScala lacking too much in the bass region to ever want to consider them. It is all about taste.
    Have a good one !
    And thanks all for the many replies - vintage Cadillacs are real cool yeah. So are Dodge Chargers etc etc etc etc etc :smoke:
    cheers,
    Juan
     
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  9. drknstrmyknight

    drknstrmyknight AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I applaud your taste!
     
  10. damacman

    damacman Blown and Injected Subscriber

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    Gilbert, AZ
    The LaScala, Belle, and Klipschorn are the fastest speakers these ears have ever heard on the bass. People that say that they don't sound good, sound boxy, etc. have just not spent the time to really listen to them.

    I'd own a set of Belles in a heartbeat if I could find a pair reasonably priced.
     
  11. JWJW

    JWJW Bun E. Carlos

    Messages:
    656
    Location:
    IN
    I own Khorns, Cornwall III's, and Heresy III's throughout my home. No LaScala II's for a reason…..I don't think they sound good at all. If fact, I've listed to MANY LaScala pairs (I and II) over the years with SS and tube amps - all them just sound flat to me with absolutely ZERO bass response.

    My 2 cents….go up the food chain to Khorns or go down the food chain to Cornwall's. I think you will be happier. For the money, CWIII's are incredible. :yes:
     

     

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  12. Bubo

    Bubo Super Member

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    1,159
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    I purchased my LaScalas new in 1980 and have never looked back. I could have purchased any of the other Klipsch Speakers at the time, and did AB tests in the same show room with all of them. They were all driven by a C-32 and 2205 in the show room..... which is what I purchased a few months later. Yes the K=horns drive a little deeper, but that wasn't a deal breaker for me, I like the sound and flexibility of the LaScalas and have compared them to plenty of other speakers over the years some costing 3x + with no discernible difference some worse. When sitting, the horns on the K-horns are too elevated for my needs.

    I don't see any reason a sub-woofer can't be added if they don't drive deep enough for you, mine still sound great with Vinyl a little shiny with CDs which could be the DAC, could be quantization error or some tweaky mastering job. I have 2000 Lps, and approx 1,000 CDs so I take it where I can find it.

    As to the question at hand, I'm not sure bi-amping is going to make an audible difference, but will punt that to Keven (and others) as wiring amps and speakers is his life....
     
  13. jlopez

    jlopez New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Listening to the LSII for a month now, with c220/mc275 + rel sub tuned to approx 55hz - single wired on 8ohm taps.
    Still try to find every free moment to enjoy every inch of 'em. Room will stay unfinished for a while I'm afraid :)
    Pure sonic magic, couldn't be more happy with them and it's great to know this , finally, will never leave home again.

    Thanks all for all replies, great forum, nice people,
    Juan
    :smoke:
     
  14. o0OBillO0o

    o0OBillO0o Active Member

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    410

    Photos? What you describe is audio porn.
     
  15. jlopez

    jlopez New Member

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    9
    Lol - yes, good one, perhaps it's just that :D

    Once I get the room a bit more finished, I will post a pic for sure.:yes:
    But now the sofa is in here, I just can't get myself to work here anymore. Just sit down and listen, listen... Already discovered more new music last month alone than in the whole last year. The only real missing now is a heating system to warm up the place a bit. The tubes alone don't do the trick. :D


    Somewhere next year I hope to add the men220 to the equation. Anyone tried it with lascala? Does it work well with horn based speakers? Maybe I should post a new thread.

    Hakuna matata!
    Juan
     
  16. jlopez

    jlopez New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Hello all, it is me again after 4 years :)

    As you can read in the above thread, I am the lucky owner of a c220+mc275 driving LaSala II with sub. Superb sound, really super. But.... I also kinda miss the old days where I had a 6300 and I could stare into the blue meters for hours (yes, I know...:)

    So now I have an opportunity to buy a c2500 used, to replace the c220! Regardless of the opinions on having an integrated DAC or not, I am only afraid I will lose any of the current sound magic, ie. that the 2500 will sound not as good as the C220. Is this something to worry about, I cannot compare this it in advance as it is all second hand... ps/ For phono, I use a Graham Slee Era Gold V connected to my VPI Classic3 - so potentially (although I doubt it), I could get some extra $$ by selling this phono amp too if the c2500 phono amp should be as good- but point is: the phono stages of the c2500 are also irrelevant. So basically the c2500 would need to give me as good sound and blue meters :). Now I have heard from people that the sound signature of the c2500 was not really on par with the c2200/c2300 - the c2600 is again. And as I think the line stages of the c220 comes close to the still in production c22 (not considering the phono stages), I think the C220 might be really good value for the money and not so trivial to upgrade from (going to c2500 for example).

    Alternatevely, and long overdue but now finally perhaps a possibility also, is to add a MEN220 to the mix of c220/mc275/sub/LaScala. It has been on my wish list ever since actually... But it is a complete guess whether the MEN220 would give any better results in my current setup. I am quite sure the sub will integrate a bit better perhaps. - and it would leave me also some cash to add a second sub, which ultimately might give a ultimate in sound repreduction...

    Basically, my question to you guys is: what should I do ? A MEN220 (potentially better integration sub/LaScala) or a C2500 (blue meters, same sound -I hope)

    ps/ the c2500 USB firmware version is 2.21 -so it should have got rid of some of these initial USB bugs
    ps2/ there is also a c2300 for sale for the same price as the c2500. Having a DAC is certainly an advantage. But not if the c2500 would be less in sonics as the c2300.

    thanks a lot for the feedback,
    Juan
     

     

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  17. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Smart Ass Sponsor Subscriber

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    I don't think the 2500 will sound the same as the 220, but I also don't know why you would want to spend money for a sideways move in SQ. Your phono staging and DAC will be much better so it should be a bump in SQ all the way around.
     
  18. jlopez

    jlopez New Member

    Messages:
    9
    thx 4-2-7, appreciate your feedback !

    Not sure I understand what you are saying with "Your phono staging and DAC will be much better so it should be a bump in SQ all the way around" though. You mean the SQ with c2500 will be better compared to the c220? Or do you consider the c220<>c2500 a siteways move on SQ (meaning the 220 purely used as line stage preamp was/is a very good deal price-wise because of the omittance of some 'extra' features like decent phono stages and a DAC (both can be seperates), meter&aesthetics which added to the cost of the later 2300,2500,2600...)

    Perhaps my post was a bit too blurry. Point is I would like to have the looks of the c2500 but would not like to lose the SQ I have now. So if people around know the c2500 outperforms the 220 on the line stage pre-amp, it is a no-brainer: I would almost be able to trade in my c220 for the c2500, especially if I could live with the MM phono stage in it and sell my phono preamp.
     
  19. damacman

    damacman Blown and Injected Subscriber

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    SQ is so subjective when it comes to preamps. The only way to know for sure is to try the C2500 in your system. Without doing that, it's anyone's guess which you'll prefer after you plunk down your cash . . .
     
  20. twiiii

    twiiii Addicted Member

    Messages:
    6,226
    Location:
    west Texas
    The first time I used Urei room EQ's with Cornwalls and Klipschorns I was truly amazed. Get rid of the bass irregularities of a room and yes the bass can be truly amazing. Live 4409. 614T, 8444, 3985, Durango Silverton, Chama RR recordings I have made are so life like and and dynamic. Not squeezed as with less efficient speakers. Unfortunately the percussive sound of wheels crossing seams in RR tracks don't sound right with la Scala and Belles. Live recordings of Big Daddy and Shirley Muldonnie leaving the startling are n't right either. Whats that TV add about where's the beef. Well that's what I ask playing Michael Murray or E power Biggs Organ recordings. Telarc recordings sound particularly off with La Scala and Bell;es. Sheffield's recording are produced rather well I thought. Disco and lot of CW albums just don't have the excitement the Cornwalls and Korner Horns have. At lower levels the differences aren't as extreme because the ear is less sensitive to bass. But why would have Klipsch Heritage anything if you weren't going to listen at realistic levels? Why have a new Corvette if you're not going to use it? The one exception is the Hersey . Used in a HT system with great subs and you really have something without investing a lot of money. I think it would be fun having a HT system with 3 Cornwalls for the front channels. Now I know two Corner horns with a Belle sounds great for HT I have installed systems with that configuration with Hersey's for the rear and surround. They were either 5.0 or 7.0 systems. Some folks tried Intersonics subs but they were not strong enough un less placed in a rear corners near the listener. A 7100 with 7106 was all that was needed. But even with a 2500/2600 the two Intersonics Contra Bass just wasn't enough. Where do you put a MWM Klipsch LF horn? They don't reach much below 30 hz either. But that's all you need for discos.
     

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