McIntosh c2200 disappointment.

Hey guys

Just acquired a McIntosh c2200 pre amp.
After my first few days of listening I can say I'm thoroughly disappointed. Now I not saying it's a bad pre amp but its not what I was expecting. It's very clear and very detailed. Nice soundstage but the bass is almost non existent and at higher volume levels it sounds very mixed up and has no separation. I'm planning on rolling some tubes into but I can't see tubes dramatically changing the sound.

Not sure where to go from here.
I miss the variable loudness control ):


The C2200 is a nice pre. You shouldn't have a bass issue with one if it set up right.

Tubes can make a huge difference, especially if the OEs are tired. Don't think Mac used great tubes -- they used good current production tubes that were then available. Back then, most new production was mediocre sounding. At least the hard-sounding Sovteks of that era didn't explode like the old Sino bottles did. You can do better.

Those are a cakewalk to roll bottles in. 12AX7 and 12AT7. Only 4 in the line stages. And choices are plentiful. If you want to improve the bottom end, I would not run Teles in it, and would definitely never use new production of any kind (there is no need to in an X7 or T7). There is a mountain of vintage still out there. Save the diamond bottoms for the phono stage, where they tend to really excel. The ribbed plates will give you a little more bass than a smooth plate, but neither of them are going to compensate for a bass deficiency.

Try something like an RCA or Raytheon black plate. Those are great all-rounders, with an emphasis on rich, strong bass and mid bass. If for some reason those come across as a little too constrained on top, then perhaps a Sylvania black plate (those are early 1950s production and much harder to find, however). A later long grey plate RCA will give you even better bass than those three, but possibly at the expense of too much elsewhere. No later Sylvanias/Philips or later GEs (but an early Ken-rad will do nearly as well as those other blackplates). A Holland Amperex is not going to give you enough extra bass, but will give you everything else. Very generally speaking, try to stick with an earlier long plate if you can, it will give you a better chance at what you need.

The holy grail when I need more bass and presence with no loss of sparkle on top is often a 57 to 59 Blackburn Mullard. Warm and rich. Generally powerful sound. But those are becoming hens' teeth, cost a small fortune when you can find them, and you are not getting any of mine. The later ones after 1960 are nice, but do not have the wide open presence and low end authority of the early ones. A cheaper alternative is a Hytron/CBS, a real sleeper which comes close to that Mullard long plate at times in the right circuit. But they can be hard to find, too.

Good luck and happy rolling.
 
Hey guys

Thanks for all the input.

Sgmlaw really appreciate the lesson in tubes there.

Ok, I'm wasnt educated enough on vintage tubes to try so with some advice from audio classics I ordered a set of gold lion premium tubes. Current production.

They showed up at lunch time today so I went home for lunch and bolted them in and turned on my amp and went back to work.

When I got home i was floored how much different the pre sounds now. This is more along the lines if what I was expecting.
Really strong bass now, opposite end if the spectrum now. Almost need to turn down the bass now with the tone controls.

Before the tone controls made almost no difference in changing the sound.

I'm not sure if the McIntosh tubes were worn out or had a mechanical issue inside or they are just not very good.

Either way I'm definitely happy with the pre now and looking forward to some more listening and maybe some different tubes down the road.

Thanks so much for everyone's time and input.
 
Glad you got it sorted out. I was going to say that the mac sound ain't for everybody. I've never been a fan. Beautiful to look at and lustworthy yes......but not for me to listen too. Always seemed overly warm and dull...to me.
 
Glad you worked it out. I have never heard a Mcintosh that I didn't like the sound.

Well, I think their SS stuff from the 70s wasn’t bad sounding but it was nothing special. Quad SS, 2nd generation Dynaco SS and GAS, among others, sounded considerably better. To me.
 
I am 54 years old and played with a lot of stereo audio from ss tube vintage and new. McIntosh is fantastic stuff just like other equipment out here today. But there is a difference in sound with good vintage equipment compared to new. My personal taste the newer equipment the settle details in sound is more revealing but the vintage gear sound has a bigger soundstage or impact. The bass is definitely noticeable difference. All of it is a matter of personal preference but I am thrilled to death I had the opportunity to be a part of the 70,s vintage audio sound vs today . It makes it much more clearer to me the sound I am after out if my stereo
 
Now you know why I prefer SS. Frank Gow was a great friend of mine and I would love to have a Frank Gow edition of the C2200. But the idea of having to hassle tubes all the time like I did in the 60's and early 70's is still too much of a turn off. We had no choice back then. I was really happy when I got my C-28 and got rid of the C-22. A C-24 kicked its but sound wise from the phono section and a 28 was even better.
 
Lol...replacing some small signal tubes every 10 years ( a task taking maybe 15 mins max) is a 'hassle'?

Whatever man....I have vintage RCA in my C220 and it sounds sublime. Glad the OP got this sounding like it should!

Jblnut
 
Lol...replacing some small signal tubes every 10 years ( a task taking maybe 15 mins max) is a 'hassle'?
Agree. Prefer a C28? That's among the most insipid sounding preamps I've ever heard. First gen SS stuff was dreadful.
 
I'm still not sold on it yet. I'll give in some time with these tubes but I seem to be missing the sound of the au20000.
 
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