Discussion in 'McIntosh Audio' started by kingstoneage, Aug 21, 2016.
Thx so much! I know...All that $$ is worth it now
Amazon delivers my tax-free C47 tomorrow. I'm very excited as I'll have a few days off to really enjoy it.
An interesting anecdote, I use Roon Labs software for music playback, and it shows the C47 not supporting DSD256 as well.
It will never be more then an interesting anecdote as I wouldn't know where to find a DSD256 album if I wanted one, but it does have me wondering if anybody can personally confirm that they have witnessed a C47 playing back this format.
(But only sort of wondering, as like I said, its hard to make myself pretend to care )
Hmm,......i still have no idea!
At the moment i own a second C47 which doesn't show the DSD256 ability in my Audirvana Plus program!
Well, as a new C47 owner, only about five months, I have never tried any computer audio on mine and I probably never will.
I will stick to LPs, CDs and streaming. Couldn't be simpler.
My only gripe is the stupid 12v trigger to use the HT bypass.
DSD256 always works through JRivers.
Mine still doesn't play or show DSD256 in the settings of my Audirvana Plus program......
It looks like your only option for DSD256 is to use JRivers. Abandon your Audirvana Plus and use what is known to work with the C47 if DSD256 is that important to you. Don't make it harder than it has to be.
When you do DSD over PCM, there's a corresponding PCM sample rate for each flavor of DSD that your DAC has to be able to support. DSD256 it requires your DAC to accept 768k PCM. The C47 doesn't (which is fine, as 768K sampling rates are absurd), so DSD over PCM caps out at 2x DSD.
What's odd here is Jriver is by no means the only software that allows you to select Native DSD vs. DoP at various bitrates if your DAC supports it. I know fellow Roon users with other brands of DAC who see the option. Roon only allows you to select settings your DAC can definitely accept, others are grayed out. So if the C47 definitely supports Native DSD, which is the only way it would be able to play DSD256, as doing it with DoP wouldn't be possible given the lack of 768K PCM, I'm not sure why any software that supports Native DSD wouldn't work. "Just use Jriver, bro" doesn't really satisfy my curiosity.
I'd love to see one of our Jriver users post this same screen shot from their C47, showing all of the modes Jriver is detecting from the DAC. Note the iFi DAC in question supports 768X PCM and 8x DSD natively (iFi must sell to a lot of dogs and bats, I presume), so those options are "real" vs. simply theoretically allowed in the software.
Run DSD in native format to the C47. No need for DSD over PCM, 'DOP'.
This is what's weird for me. My software supports native DSD. You say the C47 supports native DSD. But yet, only DoP options appear for me. I'll see what they have to say in Roon's forums. Thanks for confirming the native DSD support though, gives me something to scratch my head over. I'd use JRiver, but I'm hooked on Roon's additional functionality at this point.
I did a little digging, and it seems the "problem" is native DSD requires an ASIO driver, which is generally speaking only available on Windows. It looks like I could enable it under linux with some toying around, but I don't feel the need.
A note I'll include for people who come across this thread in the future - the term "native DSD" kind of implies DoP is somehow compromised, and not "true DSD". This isn't true - DoP and native are simply two ways of doing the exact same thing. As long as your DAC is displaying indications of DSD vs. PCM, you're getting the full experience of DSD. So unless you're determined to play DSD256, don't fret over DoP.
Which brings us back to the original question - the reason this isn't working for you is you're using a Mac, which doesn't use ASIO. I can't really tell if there's a way to add ASIO to OSX that will work with any DAC. References to it working all seem to involve custom software for a particular brand called ExaSound I'd never heard of.
So if you really, really want DSD256, you're going to have to use Windows.
Yeah you won't run Native DSD without an ASIO. Not possible in OSX, all programs use the Core Audio driver.....however, having said that, I believe J River may have got around it in OSX, since I don't play anything beyond 192, haven't needed to investigate this any further, it just works on my machine with my lower res FLAC and WAV files. This is where the problem is I think.
The only way you could do it is using Windows Parallel, or Bootcamp something like that. I have windows 10 on my machine in parallels, I might try it and see if it works....Just got to find a device that supports DSD.
For me I couldn't care less about files with such high resolution, most if not all the stuff I listen to was recorded in analogue or lower res digital....192khz at best...pointless to upsample, doesn't actually achieve anything.
Not sure where these DSD files come from or how they have been generated, but in my opinion we are getting to the point where it doesn't actually need to be any better, 192/32 is as good as it ever needs to be for a lot of our aging ears....to me 192/32 presents a very satisfying "analouge" experience....
You mean my iMac can't handle DSD256 files?
I installed Jriver on OSX as an experiment, no dice, same problem. There seem to be ASIO drivers for OSX, but they also seem to be built for specific DACs. I saw a program called Decibel that incorporates ASIO, but again, for a specific family of DAC. It's kind of funny, as I've often poked fun at Windows for the fact it doesn't have native support for USB class 2 audio, and it seems it never will, but Microsoft seems to be having the last laugh as their OS supports the technically better way of using a USB audio interface.
But as you say, this is all just an academic exercise, I was curious as to the nature of the problem so I did some digging, but the actual problem doesn't bother me. I have 67 DSD albums in my Roon library, only one of them is even DSD128, and it certainly doesn't sound 2x better then the DSD64.
Specifically, the Apple OSX operating system doesn't support the technology required to play DSD256. This is an important distinction, as if you went to the store and bought a brand new Apple computer that's twice as fast as your current one, it still wouldn't work. If you're hell bent on playing DSD256, get a windows computer for the purpose.
Wow, maybe this is the solution of my DSD256 problem........my iMac can handle DSD64 and DSD128 with my Audirvana Plus 2.6 program. It is able to upsample FLAC and AIFF files to DSD64 or 128 but no DSD256.
The C47 and Audirvana are both able to play DSD256 native but the iMac not! The iMac can DoP, BUT......
For DoP DSD256 the C47 must access 24bit/705,6 kHz which it can't.
For DoP DSD128 the 24bit/352,8 kHz ability of the C47 is enough.
So that's the reason why DSD256 on an iMac doesn't work with the C47.
Yes, that's it.
Mac OSX user here expecting to take delivery of a C47 tomorrow. Thanks to everyone who documented all of this here, so I don't waste hours worrying about DSD 256. So glad I came across this thread.
Any comments on the unit's phono section? I'm hoping to eliminate a couple of boxes and all of their wires in my rack (phono pre and DAC). I've heard great things about the DAC's sound quality, but not so much about the phono section -- MC in particular.
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