McIntosh Integrated Amp Speaker 2 output question

[dj7675]

In our living room I am wanting to use a McIntosh Integrated that has a 2nd set of speaker outputs to run a pair of outdoor speakers on our deck. My plan was using an MA6450. Our main speakers will have a sub and I am planning on using a minidsp in the processor loop to send below 80hz to the sub and above to the main speakers. In this scenario, what frequencies will the second set of speakers receive. Will they receive the full signal, or just the same frequency that the main speakers receive (above 80hz)?
Hopefully that makes sense.

 

[twiiii]

Only above 80 HZ. Unless you have a small out door space, or really efficient out door speakers your going to find the level mismatch between the indoor system and the out door system will never be satisfactory with a single amp. It takes almost 10 times the power for out doors or speakers that are 10 db more efficient, because their is no room gain out doors. In addition that makes the bass sound even weaker... outdoors...

 

[c_dk]

The typical processor loop replaced the tape monitor loop so it is not a part of the volume control path......this would make it a bad place to put a sub woofer connection.

If you pull the pre/ amp connection the sub and main speakers will track with the volume but if you limit the bass here it will effect both pairs.

You might find that using a y type connection to create a signal to go to the sub, then layer the sub on top of the main signal to work as a decent compromise until you choose to buy a outdoor speaker amp.

 

[dj7675]

The typical processor loop replaced the tape monitor loop so it is not a part of the volume control path......this would make it a bad place to put a sub woofer connection.

If you pull the pre/ amp connection the sub and main speakers will track with the volume but if you limit the bass here it will effect both pairs.

You might find that using a y type connection to create a signal to go to the sub, then layer the sub on top of the main signal to work as a decent compromise until you choose to buy a outdoor speaker amp.

Appreciate the comment. I have a minidsp processor that is being put in the processor loop. It acts as a crossover and the l/r go back into the integrated amp for 80hz and up. Out of the minidsp the below 80hz go to an external amp to power a passive subwoofer. I have it set up in another system like think it is the proper way to set it up. Isn’t this how the processor loop for a McIntosh integrated amp should be used?

 

[dj7675]

Only above 80 HZ. Unless you have a small out door space, or really efficient out door speakers your going to find the level mismatch between the indoor system and the out door system will never be satisfactory with a single amp. It takes almost 10 times the power for out doors or speakers that are 10 db more efficient, because their is no room gain out doors. In addition that makes the bass sound even weaker... outdoors...

I see your point on this. Maybe adding an outdoor volume control to get the correct level?

 

[twiiii]

You need more power out doors 95% of the time. A volume control absorbs power taking it away from the out door speakers. It can't add power. Never place a Vol control on your primary speakers as the vol control will compromise the performance of your primary speakers. How my you ask. First they absorb power, second they add reactance to the system which can modify the impedance of the system introducing parameters that can require more current, change frequency response, change phase angles compromising your imaging. Primary speakers that are efficient with poor bass response and even worse imaging will show very little change with a volume control introduced. But in efficient speakers with lower impedances with already complex impedance curves will be colored immediately. has been my experience.

My first Scott system drove Altec Carmels that were very efficient and I couldn't get the levels to balance at normal listening levels with the control around 9:00 o'clock. The later MA 230 had the same issue. From then I went with separates so I could optimize the level settings on the pre-amp by adjusting the gain on the MC 240 Power amp. I tried using T-pads , equal impedance in and out, with the Scott to lower the levels and the bass lost what little definition that was there the highs became distorted and the focus of the system was totally lost. When I changed to Bozak later on the loss of 7 db of sensitivity made balancing the system much easier. We did quite a few systems that. had out door pools, cabanas and patios, I gave up on normal indoor speakers and went with efficient water proof out door speakers. It costs more to begin with but the results are much more satisfying for the customer and prevent operational issues, and continuous service calls required by less than optimized systems. I will admit subwoofers would have been a nice touch back in the 60's and 70's.

In the 90's and early 2000's Boston made some great sounding surface mount speakers that will work out doors, but you need separate out door amp for sure and some times multiple amps. We used both B&K 12 channel 50 watt amps ut I preferred Macs MC 58, because of the Power Guard feature. &K amps isn't hold up well under strenuous loads.

 

[TSmith8605]

Appreciate the comment. I have a minidsp processor that is being put in the processor loop. It acts as a crossover and the l/r go back into the integrated amp for 80hz and up. Out of the minidsp the below 80hz go to an external amp to power a passive subwoofer. I have it set up in another system like think it is the proper way to set it up. Isn’t this how the processor loop for a McIntosh integrated amp should be used?

No. The volume control does not affect the processes loop output so that the subwoofer will always be at some fixed loudness no matter how you set the volume - probably pretty loud. If you turn the volume all the way down, the woofer will still be playing at that loud set level as long as music is playing.

Use the pre-out / main-in loop for the crossover because that comes after the volume control and so the woofer and speakers will track together as you adjust the volume level.

Still, the outdoor speakers will not get any signal below 80 Hz as you have removed that with the crossover prior to the power amp. You would have to either listen outside with no bass or set up a switch to bypass the crossover when playing outside and then either run the inside speakers or the outside speakers but not both at once.

The best way is to use a second integrated amp for the outdoor speakers. You could run an interconnect from the processor loop out of the Mac to an AUX input on the second integrated amp. This way, the second amp / outdoor speakers will play the same source you select on the Mac as is playing on the main speakers. The second integrated amp will then provide the volume (and tone controls) only for the outdoor speakers. Means you set the loudness of the indoor and outdoor systems separately while they simultaneously play the same source. The second integrated amp also provides a dedicated power amp to the outdoor speakers to avoid the issues Twiiii mentioned in post #6.

 

[dj7675]

Appreciate all of the comments and great information as I try to get our living room system/outdoor speakers set up correctly. Sounds like it would be best to have separate amps running the indoor and outdoor speakers. I have a MC7106 that I could use as well. If I used a preamp with a second zone with the MC7106 would that be a good way to go about controlling and powering the inside and outside speakers properly?