I have MC60s and a reissue C22 the CE from the mid 90s. I find it to be an excellent combination . The speakers i'm unfamiliar with. I find them pretty forgiving though unless you completely miss match them.
McIntosh MC30 Vs. MC60
- Thread starter Seamaster
- Start date
You should probably start a new thread.......the Allison speaker line is very unique in general and the 1 and 2 especially so. They are essentially the same design standard, the 2 for corner loading and placement, the 1 designed for mid wall.
twiiii
Lunatic Member
The difference between a MC-30 and a MC-60 is the signature sound of the KT88. The same goes for the sound of the MC 2301 and the 3500. In one case I prefer the KT 88, MC-60 and the other the MC 3500. I will say a 2301 with its higher signal to noise on most speakers might be preferred, but a 3500 not having as good as signal to noise but lower distortion and other intangibles and tangibles is my preferred choice when restored. I have seen the Vu meter lights dim on a 3500 pushed hard, but never heard any offensive sounds. The MC 60's I owned were sweet amps, they weren't as revealing as MC 75's but at the time of production were very good. They weren't as hard or dry as Model 9's or Citations but more musical. They could add a touch of sweetness to those irritating JBL ring radiators. That all said it depends on the speaker. For Bozaks or other speakers with less than 96 db efficiency I would choose the MC 60. For more efficient speakers the MC 30. MC 30's work really well with older Klipsch speakers, Pre 70's. and help tame Tannoys, too. They are not enough for AR, KLH or other New England Speakers. Ar 3 for example, AR said they were rated about 35 watts was easily reachable by a MC 30. But it wasn't until 2105s capable of 135 watts that AR-3's and 3a's began to perform. Bozak Symphonies rated at 35 watts really didn't start moving air until the 275 came along. Now I will admit Bozaks started Rolling off at or around 13KHZ just like Altec and some Ev, and that was OK, because that was the response in large venues with out amplification. So hearing the last detail by a MC-30 and a MC 60 in the highs may not be revealed but a MC 60 allowed Bozaks to bend your knees and Khorns to kick butt.
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Can't say anything on the mc30s, but the MC60s paired with a C20 connected to a set of Martin Logan Aeon i's has given me the best sound I've ever heard. Mainly spinning vinyl from a linn axis TT. I've tried the 240 and a c20 with the MLs and Klipsch quartets, c28 and 2200, a 1700 and I just cant get away from the 60s. While many may argue the new speakers and vintage tube are a mismatched set to begin with I'm quite pleased. I've hooked up a set of mac xl10s for a full vintage sound, but its the MLs that light the place up. I can definitely say I like the 60s better than the 240 in any configuration, but that's another thread.
While i do have an mc60 set, and Klipsch Belle speakers, my 60's are not in service yet. Been thinking about a restored set of 30's so this thread and thoughts of the OP (seamaster)has been helpful. Sounds like i should get the 60's up and running before i buy a 30 set. (Duh, ya)
My only 2 tube preamps are currently a Fisher 400cx-2 and a Mac C-2200 . Interested to see how each pair with the 60's especially with the c2200 being newer. My Belle Klipsch, heavily modified.
Mostly, all i do here and plan to do stems from my obsessive nature, not thinking i will ever obtain any real eternal bliss from Audio. Just looking for a cost effective way to drive the Belle. Newer amps, sure. Can they be had for 2500l ike the 60 or 30? Since i already have the 60 i think i should just leave well enough alone i suppose. Traditionally ive used SS amps with tube preamps, though have used Quicksilver amps on these in the past.
Is there a "sweet spot" and shall i ever be "satisfied"? Meaning, to leave the system 100% ALONE for more than a year?
Time will tell. Reading this though has helped me realize that my desire for the mc30 when i already have the mc60 may not be warranted. The differences ive read look to me to be what my ears have deduced as differences between the kt88 and el34 in other amps ive had.
Thank you much
My only 2 tube preamps are currently a Fisher 400cx-2 and a Mac C-2200 . Interested to see how each pair with the 60's especially with the c2200 being newer. My Belle Klipsch, heavily modified.
Mostly, all i do here and plan to do stems from my obsessive nature, not thinking i will ever obtain any real eternal bliss from Audio. Just looking for a cost effective way to drive the Belle. Newer amps, sure. Can they be had for 2500l ike the 60 or 30? Since i already have the 60 i think i should just leave well enough alone i suppose. Traditionally ive used SS amps with tube preamps, though have used Quicksilver amps on these in the past.
Is there a "sweet spot" and shall i ever be "satisfied"? Meaning, to leave the system 100% ALONE for more than a year?
Time will tell. Reading this though has helped me realize that my desire for the mc30 when i already have the mc60 may not be warranted. The differences ive read look to me to be what my ears have deduced as differences between the kt88 and el34 in other amps ive had.
Thank you much
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You will never be satisfied 
.
It's the nature of the hobby.
I never had belles but on paper the those 2 pres should be excellent with 60s.
.It's the nature of the hobby.
I never had belles but on paper the those 2 pres should be excellent with 60s.
damacman
Resident Psycho
That's just silly. I've been satisfied for decades ...You will never be satisfied
It's the nature of the hobby.
I never had belles but on paper the those 2 pres should be excellent with 60s.
Yet you keep buying new toys and trying new things
I guess a truer truth , you can get there but you still feel inclined to find another way there.
Still... the pair of 30's are on my mind when i havent even taken my 60's for a stroll yet! Wanted to replace them paper caps and bublebees first. Already did the diode deal, got some Russian 4y something or others... these Belle just look at me yearning.... 
damacman
Resident Psycho
I started with an MX110 and MC240 in 1990 - my father bought them for me at city wide rummage sale for $70 along with some JBL Olympus speakers if you can believe that. Since then, it's been one heck of a journey but at no point did I ever feel that I needed some other piece of gear to enjoy music more. From time to time, upgrades have been made sure but in most cases to serve a new goal - upgrading from the C100 to C200 to add the HT PASSTHRU feature for example.Yet you keep buying new toys and trying new things
I guess a truer truth , you can get there but you still feel inclined to find another way there.
damacman
Resident Psycho
Personally, I owned three pair of MC60s - only Mc gear I regret selling.
Shat..couldnt help myself. Bought the 30's. Looks like the OP and i will have a common theme. Maybe the 30's will be fine on the Belle, and i can move the 60's to the Super Heresy HIP's... rabbit hole here i come.
Better, worse, not sure. Just having some fun along the way. I do have one system that remains constant though so i am capable anyway.
Chapman speakers x 5
Krell KAV-1500 amp (lol what a brute)
Lexicon mc12hdB processsor
Not REALGOOD at any one thing, just does a multitudes of things very well.
Still of all the "fun" i have altering stuff, i always have had a simple receiver and ADS 710 speakers. Many systems have gone, though they remain.
Oops...i did it again
https://www.vintagevacuumaudio.com/...ored-pair-of-mc30-mcintosh-one-year-warranty/
1. After testing the bumblebees from the mc60 on the Sencore lc53 i saw no reason to leave them in.
2. Same went for the paper caps.
3. So, a fully restored set just made sense given failure rate of SOME of the components. I do notice restored units dont tend to bring a heck of a lot more than stock comparatively speaking.
4. Then the rechrome... mybe thats not a good idea? His silk screen is epoxy that sounds good.
Just couldnt help it. If im going to hear a 30, its gonna be done up.
Maybe im pissin up a rope and get some in my eyes, i suppose at least its mine.
The amps...not the piss...
Well that too i guess.
HT passthrough feature. My c-2200 has that. Been wondering what to do with the feature.i like your logic.
Excuse please if not a good spot to slide this question in, please let me know otherwise.
I realize mc 30/60 are fixed bias. Is this to say that the tubes have no bias measurements to be had? Most amps ive owned were adjustable, and also autobias. I know little, but how to use a meter and screwdriver. Am i grasping to assume the Macs would have a bias that can can be figured somehow, but its just not adjustable?
Heres why i ask. I thought to use a set of Tung sol kt66 which are said to pull 900ma. Safe for the mc30...good bad right or wrong as far as sound, just wondering if i can monitor things with one of these contraptions:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/302723552508
If i get a reading from my current 6l6gc, can i compare that to readings of thosnother set of tubes to determine if its within limits of the amps?
The amps in question are feshly restored from Vintage Vaccuume Tube Audio. Why do this? Just wanting to eek out a bit more upper frequencies if i can do it safely.
I realize mc 30/60 are fixed bias. Is this to say that the tubes have no bias measurements to be had? Most amps ive owned were adjustable, and also autobias. I know little, but how to use a meter and screwdriver. Am i grasping to assume the Macs would have a bias that can can be figured somehow, but its just not adjustable?
Heres why i ask. I thought to use a set of Tung sol kt66 which are said to pull 900ma. Safe for the mc30...good bad right or wrong as far as sound, just wondering if i can monitor things with one of these contraptions:
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/302723552508
If i get a reading from my current 6l6gc, can i compare that to readings of thosnother set of tubes to determine if its within limits of the amps?
The amps in question are feshly restored from Vintage Vaccuume Tube Audio. Why do this? Just wanting to eek out a bit more upper frequencies if i can do it safely.
KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
I prefer the MC 30 to the MC 60, the midrange is better, and overall sound quality to my ear is superior. This is also with both amps in optimum operating condition. This is assuming very efficient speakers are used. I like both amplifiers (the MC 60 treble is better)
Phototone
Super Member
The Mac classic tube amps are fixed bias, set with soldered-in resistors. When restoring a unit you can adjust the bias by changing the values of these 2 resistors, but they need to be closely matched so each output tube gets the same. Over time these carbon comp resistors will have drifted in value. I am unsure why Mac went this way, other tha perhaps the unique output transformer design made it possible to not need individual adjustable tube bias. Macs first integrated tube amp, which had a solid state front end, and tube amp did have bias pots on the chassis, but then again the output transformers were not the bifilar/trifilar design of other Mac amps.
gmfgmfgmf1
Active Member
Was hoping to read about the shootout 30 vs 60????
I had the chance to buy both and preferred the 30's (I now have 4 of these)
Others may have a different preference
C-20 and MC-30 perfect for me
I had the chance to buy both and preferred the 30's (I now have 4 of these)
Others may have a different preference
C-20 and MC-30 perfect for me
What im getting at is that given that its fixed, whats it fixed AT? Doesnt the use of these bias resisters of varying value depending on a voltage measured at specific location indicate that its therby "set" so a specific value, and if so whats the value,AND can this value be measured with the device ive LINKED to?
My understanding is that the tubes are biased together as in "series" not individually so while an individual measurment may be moot, just curious if the device linked can be placed on a correctly functional amp to use the baseline as a way to monitor things in the future. (Like with other amps that have bias test points)
I realize my understanding is rudimentary, hope ive relayed this correctly. Not sure if units using the measuring technique need that resistor across the tube which allows measurment division of current ...
(poor lingo) or not.
I think the fixed bias is McIntosh realizing who their main customers were at the time. Mostly professionals who wanted to listen to music without fiddling about adjusting bias and so forth. The number of people who enjoyed tweaking their systems was a very small minority back than I'll wager. Now days the hobby is still a niche market but the percentage of those who enjoy swapping things in & out of a system is much higher proportionally I believe. However, I've been wrong before and will be again.
