MCS 3245 q-u-e-s-t-i-o-n-s-?

[Billy Dio]

I'm going to go look at an MCS 3245 tomorrow that's been taken care of and been professionally gone over. Anything outright that I should check? It's hooked at the guy's house to speakers already, so that's not an issue.

I used to have a MCS 3233 back in the day that my dad gave me. That little thing rocked pretty good. Only complaint was the high frequency hiss, but I got used to it. I was going to settle for another one of those, but found the 3245 locally for $100, and given it's physical shape and previous service, I think that's fair. Given the 33w 3233 could walk all over my more modern 100w per channel Pioneer (which was a rude awakening when I 1st bought the $350 Pioneer), I figure the 45w should be similar? From what I've read, some of these units were built by different manufacturers. How "different" in sound quality will this 3245 be compared to my old 3233? I know the 3233 was real particular about only accepting 8ohms or higher, and I remember it'd pop fuses on occasion from running it hard which in my youth I solved by putting slow-blow fuses in :headscrat and modding the top vent to accept an AC powered PC fan I ran into the switched power outlet in the back which pulled a ton of heat out. For the record, I'd buy Realistic 12" woofers from Radioshack (remember those?) and ran 4 of those in standing speaker 3-way boxes which really pushed that little guy hard with bass up and loudness on (enough to knock clocks of the walls 4 rooms away and rattle plates in the cupboards ) . Anyways, whatever I end up getting now won't see that level of loudness, but will see some extended on-time in varying temps. So figure some more PC fans will help out with longevity in a top-pull flow?? I had a pair of Koss (PRO?) headphones in a custom sealed ear cup and they'd hold HEAVY bass notes w/o crackle or distortion at higher volumes with the 3233. Is the 3245 able to compete sound quality-wise with the 3233? I'm looking to eventually get some low-end Grados or similar, but I'm really chasing the sound quality I was accustomed to in the early 90's while in my teens. I really like the fact these models had the separate mid-range control which I find VERY odd most modern units don't and you need an EQ to alter. Also, I don't understand why or how, but I noticed sound quality would change with different rated fuses in the 3233. Anyone know why? I could only detect the differences with the headphones on, but it was obvious. Seemed more powerful with heavier duty fuses, but this was 22 years ago. Talking a few amp difference with whatever the original fuses were i.e. going from a 10 amp fast blow to a 12 amp slow blow or similar.

Any help with MCS in general or the 2 models I talked about would be greatly appreciated. I'm going to look at the unit tomorrow at 11 am so pipe up if you have pertinent info .:thmbsp:


Oh, one last thing. My current Pioneer has an optical s/pdif which is connected to my PC. I'm running PCM 96.0 through win7. The Pioneer can handle PCM 192k, but something with win7 won't allow anything above 96 despite it being selectable. Since the PC is connected to my 47" LED LCD, all sound from movies, games, playlists, etc. are being sent from the PC through the optical wire to the stereo. I've looked and found optical to RCA converters online through Radioshack. Will that work OK with the MCS AUX input? I take it the MCS unit can NOT play the better sounding PCM 96 signal? Or can the adapter correct this? If not, what's the highest setting the the MCS can handle? 48khz? 44.1khz? The AUX input is more sensitive than the phono input, correct?

 

[cgutz]

I'm guessing that MCS is strictly analog and the PCM issue is moot as it won't recognize any digital signal. The AUX input will take the analog out from a digital to analog converter. PCM compatibility will be in the converter.

Phono inputs are entirely different from AUX ot Tape inputs and can only be used with turntables.

MCS made some decent analog amps, esp. the NEC built receivers and amps.

 

[Billy Dio]

I'm guessing that MCS is strictly analog and the PCM issue is moot as it won't recognize any digital signal. The AUX input will take the analog out from a digital to analog converter. PCM compatibility will be in the converter.

Phono inputs are entirely different from AUX ot Tape inputs and can only be used with turntables.

MCS made some decent analog amps, esp. the NEC built receivers and amps.

So, I'll have to uncheck the PCM settings and leave the sample rates as either 44.1 or do you think it can handle 48khz from the PC? I honestly don't know that much about this.

Any idea who made the MCS 3245? It's an early version from what I can tell, and it's the next step up physically over my old unit. i.e. the 3212 through 3233 seemed to look closely related with more options being added with higher wattage variants. Whereas the 3245 looks more inline with the bigger versions that had all the "flash" added to the front panel.

 

[Billy Dio]

Hmm, found an old archive from AK that states the 3245 is indeed NEC. Is that true?

 

[lico]

Man, you are all over the place. First off, if you want type a digital input with a vintage receiver like that you need a DAC. And optical to RCA converter is called a DAC. Easy to find, you should be able to locate an inexpensive one to do the job.

Next, that line of MCS was built by NEC. I love that MCS line too because I remember it when it was new. How good will it sound? Debatable, probably not any better than a newer model Pioneer does, but I'm not sure what Pioneer you are listening to now.

Biggest problem you'll have (in my experience) with that MCS line are all the switches on the front panel. They probably need cleaning. When you check it out, flip all the switches around and see if you notice distortion in the sound when you do it. If it has been "professionally" gone over, then you should have not notice any issues and $100 is fair price from a receiver if everything works, especially if you have good memories from using older MCS gear as you posted.

I'm sure other MCS "fans" will post as well.

 

[Billy Dio]

All over the place? I honestly don't understand what that means. To be honest, I never got into home audio and never researched any of this before. (car audio I know and have higher-end stuff) When my 3233 quit working around 02', I chucked it thinking it was a lost cause. Bought a VSX D514S and just used that to run TV stuff, but it's lack of sound quality left me unimpressed. Never really thought about going back to a vintage receiver before.

I know nothing about digital receivers or their signals, thus I'm asking, so please be kind.

 

[Hifirob2]

Hmm, found an old archive from AK that states the 3245 is indeed NEC. Is that true?

What archive? I have a 3245 and it is not a NEC product. It was made in Taiwan. NEC made gear came out of only Japan. It does have a good tuner, and has a cool "matrix" feature when you hook up a pair of rear speakers.

A hundred bucks seems fair for one that has been gone over, and works as it should. Enjoy!! :thmbsp:

 

[lico]

So Rob are you saying the 3245 is not in the same line as 3253 and 3275? News to me I guess, and I misspoke you are the MCS guru.

 

[lico]

All over the place? I honestly don't understand what that means. To be honest, I never got into home audio and never researched any of this before. (car audio I know and have higher-end stuff) When my 3233 quit working around 02', I chucked it thinking it was a lost cause. Bought a VSX D514S and just used that to run TV stuff, but it's lack of sound quality left me unimpressed. Never really thought about going back to a vintage receiver before.

I know nothing about digital receivers or their signals, thus I'm asking, so please be kind.

Sorry but you had a lot of questions. My bad.

 

[Hifirob2]

So Rob are you saying the 3245 is not in the same line as 3253 and 3275? News to me I guess, and I misspoke you are the MCS guru.

The 3253 & 3275 were from 1978-79. The 3245 was from 1980. So in 1978-79, models 3212, 3223, and 3233 were from Taiwan - and the higher up 3253 and 3275 were NEC rebadges. In 1980 models 3235 & 3245 were considered "lower" models - made in Taiwan (but still nice in my opinion). I'm not sure what the top receiver models were in 1980. I haven't seen any models between the 3245 and the big one - the 3125. Maybe the 3253 & 3275 were carried over into 1980?? Lots of grey area in 1980 and 81. I don't have those catalogs, unfortunately.

 

[lico]

OK, so the 3245 isn't the same line. Fair enough... so who made it?

 

[Billy Dio]

What archive? I have a 3245 and it is not a NEC product. It was made in Taiwan. NEC made gear came out of only Japan. It does have a good tuner, and has a cool "matrix" feature when you hook up a pair of rear speakers.

A hundred bucks seems fair for one that has been gone over, and works as it should. Enjoy!! :thmbsp:

I was searching for "who made MCS 3245" and after sifting through countless links (all of which were AK) someone else that had one stated it was NEC. As long as it's on par with the 3233 I had (or better actually), I'll be more than happy. Maybe some day I'll find a 3125 for a good price. I increased magnification on the rear image and it does say "Made in Taiwan".


Yeah, my other one had the Matrix option as well. From what I could tell by messing around, it seemed to grab a positive lead from each channel, and ran them into one speaker i.e. L+ and R+ and ran one to positive and another to neg. At least I was able to replicate the sound on the main channel by doing that with mine. I was young and "experimented" with the poor thing more than once But grabbing the positive from each channel and running them to one speaker, made the same effect where it was almost like an echo or it'd cut some sounds, while overemphasizing others. I remember some music from the 90's seemed to be able to use that matrix effect as there were vocals that you normally couldn't hear w/o headphones, but running the matrix hook up and the speaker would catch them (pardon my excitement but this is as close to being 14 again as I'm going to get).

 

[Billy Dio]

The 3253 & 3275 were from 1978-79. The 3245 was from 1980. So in 1978-79, models 3212, 3223, and 3233 were from Taiwan -

Then I should be more than happy with the 3245 if the 3233 was made by the same people. Although the 3212, 3223, and 3233 appear to be on the same chassis with the 3233 having the most features of the lot. The 3245 looks more like the bigger models with the taller face and more features. Thanks for the info though.

Any reason why the MCS and NEC models don't have a dedicated thread like Pioneer, Marantz, etc.? Would help clear up the confusion and make sourcing a model easy for would-be buyers. Looks like many of the MCS have doppelgangers, would be nice to have side-by-side of the MCS along with it's evil twin if/when possible. I know the NEC versions, from what I can tell by some random pics I've found, were physically identical except they had black faces instead of silver or black casings. Here's an AK link with a few examples: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=7383444

Sorry but you had a lot of questions. My bad.

That's why I'm here

 

[Hifirob2]

I think you'll be very happy with the 3245. It's quite a looker. As to who made it? That's a tough question. Some threads here on AK make mention of a company "Itoh Radio of Japan". That would explain the excellent tuners in the 3235 & 3245. Maybe they were designed in Japan, and built in a Taiwan factory. Maybe we'll never know for sure. But I'll keep looking for the answer...

 

[Billy Dio]

I think you'll be very happy with the 3245. It's quite a looker. As to who made it? That's a tough question. Some threads here on AK make mention of a company "Itoh Radio of Japan". That would explain the excellent tuners in the 3235 & 3245. Maybe they were designed in Japan, and built in a Taiwan factory. Maybe we'll never know for sure. But I'll keep looking for the answer...

After looking at some Technics units, they also had the Plexiglas bolted on. The plexi size appears almost identical. Is that a possible clue? Have you investigated your circuit board? Assuming all is well and it gets purchased, I'm going to pull the cover to blow out any dust and check for anything out of the ordinary. If you or anyone else can reference any Technics or Panasonic from say 77' to 80', I'll spend some time researching and might get lucky and find a similar board or a face plate on something that appears to be a cousin. Nothing came up in google for Itoh Radio of Japan. Too bad someone involved with making these isn't on the forums. This is kinda fun detective work to kill some time.

 

[Hifirob2]

Good questions. I've googled many MCS, NEC, and Technics models to death over the years - more hours than I can remember - LOL. While Technics/Panasonic DID make many pieces for MCS, they didn't make any of their receivers. Technics circuit boards have a certain look to them, and they don't resemble the boards in my 3245 at all.

I've also googled Itoh to death, and come up empty handed. I'm only going on what I've read here on AK. Maybe I need to open up my 3245 again to look for more clues.

 

[Hifirob2]

Just a note before you buy. I noticed in the first picture that the stereo/mono switch is in the mono position. When testing it, switch it to stereo and make sure one of the channels doesn't disappear.

Also, you said the you got used to the hiss on your 3233. Maybe take along a pair of headphones to listen carefully to this one to see if there is any annoying hiss or hum.

 

[Billy Dio]

LOL, I just spent a couple hours looking at NEC, Realistic, Technics. One thing that stands out with this 3245 is it has some sneaky camouflage on the front. The plexi is one part, then the aluminum? plate that's bolted in the front with the A,B, needles, FM, AM, etc. changes the appearance as well. Gotta think it'd have been rather expensive to make this from scratch with nothing special wattages. But if the plate were removed and say nothing cut for the hole and the plexi wasn't there, would it remind you of anything else?


Oh, and as far as internal parts are concerned. I've read about recapping. I assume that just means putting new capacitors in? Anything else that typically needs replaced at the same time or a good idea for preventative maintenance? Also, can these be tweaked for more wattage by replacing the caps, transformer, etc.? Do the caps need to be identical, or can they be slightly over-sized? What's considered good quality for replacement parts? I know it's a lot of questions, but I'm in sponge mode atm.

 

[Billy Dio]

Just a note before you buy. I noticed in the first picture that the stereo/mono switch is in the mono position. When testing it, switch it to stereo and make sure one of the channels doesn't disappear.

Also, you said the you got used to the hiss on your 3233. Maybe take along a pair of headphones to listen carefully to this one to see if there is any annoying hiss or hum.

LOL, I actually made a comment to the guy I wanted to bring some headphones. He stated he had some Onkyo hooked up to it, so I'll definitely check that out. The hiss in the other one wasn't overly loud, it was just noticeable with the treble all the way and loudness on. The scratch filter did remove it, but it also cut too much for my liking.

He had it posted for awhile, then didn't bother renewing the CL add which was last updated around June 6th. I found it by a direct MCS search and contacted the guy to see if it was still for sale. I'm getting the impression he went back to using it. Since most people don't really know what this is, they probably aren't willing to drop $100 for a JCPenney brand or prefer better known names? Ebay MCS is around the same price or higher, and most want $40-60 for shipping on top of that, so figure this is a good deal if it works. Heck, saw one in a Good Will auction go for around $160

 

[Billy Dio]

Got it home and it's rocking my cheapie over the ear headphones to decent volume. The bass response is excellent, and the vocals and highs are great (to me). Forgot how much different these old amps sound compared to newer stuff. And the difference between the midrange and treble controls have compared with "bass" and "treble" selections in newer units. Can't wait to throw some better headphones at it. No hiss either!

Only issue I found is left channel meter is lazy and doesn't really move. AUX bleeds over to AM if the CD is left running, but I don't care. FM station detection is the best I've ever come across. It can actually pick up the strongest local stuff (in stereo) without a wire attached! I'm impressed. It's been recapped and all switches/knobs work, with no wobble, static, etc. It's a keeper. Front is a 9.5/10. Veneer is a 9/10. $75